RE: Is Lotus in proper bother this time?
Discussion
Junglehop said:
Update the elise to this:
You're joking surely. It doesn't have any Lotus DNA in it whatsoever. When you have a strong brand recognition you don't make a product where people look at it and say "what is it?"Jaguar, Aston, Porsche, Ferrari, Lambourghini... they all make cars where just one look at it lets you know what it is, even to the untrained or casual eye.
That... *thing*... could be anything from any Far East wannabe manufacturer. It doesn't say Lotus to me in any way whatsoever. If anything it says Honda.
Sicob said:
To me the most likely formula model profile to succeed is:
Elise - Rehash mainstay, base models more power 200bhp. S range 300bhp. All Supercharged 4 cylinders. Offer stripped out road/track model also.
Exige / Exige Roadster - V6 nice new development, car different enough from the Elise to attract buyers, performance gains over old model. Roadster effectively V6 Elise with more aggressive different look to distinguish. Stripped out Road / Track model also.
Evora - GTE body for all. All supercharged as base model (may have had a chance at the the market segment) Minimum 330bhp for base. Stripped version also.
Eprit - They've done it before, market expecting one for years, loyal following and interest. sub 90k car though, thinking more 80k. Lends itself to one of the 5 new designs. V8 SC.
That's it. If you can't work those models, sell the company. Forget all the new models and extensive development plans costing silly money they dont have, dont run before you can walk. Elise / Exige and Evora effectively share same platform.
Keep manufacturing costs of different models to a minimum, all cars for global market (i.e Exige). I'm sure some analysis of market segment and opportunites would point you more in this direction than the bizarre multi model whole range development they have come up with. But what do I know!
I also agree. Although there is no way a SC V8 Esprit would be £80k. For me the Esprit needs to be a proper range topper and maybe £95k..Elise - Rehash mainstay, base models more power 200bhp. S range 300bhp. All Supercharged 4 cylinders. Offer stripped out road/track model also.
Exige / Exige Roadster - V6 nice new development, car different enough from the Elise to attract buyers, performance gains over old model. Roadster effectively V6 Elise with more aggressive different look to distinguish. Stripped out Road / Track model also.
Evora - GTE body for all. All supercharged as base model (may have had a chance at the the market segment) Minimum 330bhp for base. Stripped version also.
Eprit - They've done it before, market expecting one for years, loyal following and interest. sub 90k car though, thinking more 80k. Lends itself to one of the 5 new designs. V8 SC.
That's it. If you can't work those models, sell the company. Forget all the new models and extensive development plans costing silly money they dont have, dont run before you can walk. Elise / Exige and Evora effectively share same platform.
Keep manufacturing costs of different models to a minimum, all cars for global market (i.e Exige). I'm sure some analysis of market segment and opportunites would point you more in this direction than the bizarre multi model whole range development they have come up with. But what do I know!
The current Evora S IPS is £70k+ RRP, plus the GTE kit it would be £80k itself.
JonRB said:
You're joking surely. It doesn't have any Lotus DNA in it whatsoever. When you have a strong brand recognition you don't make a product where people look at it and say "what is it?"
Jaguar, Aston, Porsche, Ferrari, Lambourghini... they all make cars where just one look at it lets you know what it is, even to the untrained or casual eye.
That... *thing*... could be anything from any Far East wannabe manufacturer. It doesn't say Lotus to me in any way whatsoever. If anything it says Honda.
Theres plenty of "DNA" in that... dont know about you but my DNA is largley under the skin.... When the original esprit came out that looked like the sex child of a slice of cheese and an envelope but no one complained... when the original elise came out etc..... Jaguar, Aston, Porsche, Ferrari, Lambourghini... they all make cars where just one look at it lets you know what it is, even to the untrained or casual eye.
That... *thing*... could be anything from any Far East wannabe manufacturer. It doesn't say Lotus to me in any way whatsoever. If anything it says Honda.
im sure there would be cues on this design that hark back to Loti of old
NO BLOODY MONEY!!!!!!
- will Ferrari not take this person back? JonRB said:
Junglehop said:
Update the elise to this:
... You're joking surely. It doesn't have any Lotus DNA in it whatsoever... Perhaps Lotus is actually returning to its styling roots - ie, clean-sheet designs?
NGK210 said:
True. But compared to the Seven, what visual link/DNA did the Elan, Europa ('squashed van') or Elite 1 share? Now't. In turn, compared to the Elan, Europa and Elite 1, what visual link/DNA did the Eclat, Elite 2 or Esprit share? Now't.
Perhaps Lotus is actually returning to its styling roots - ie, clean-sheet designs?
Look at the front square on. All Lotuses from Elite to first (pre-Bahar) Evora have had a common "mouth" in the shape of the air intake/radiator grille. Positioning of the headlamps also tended to create a similar "face" on them all.Perhaps Lotus is actually returning to its styling roots - ie, clean-sheet designs?
Presume most on here have watched Harry Metcalfe's video review/update of his old Elan Sprint- a world away from the new designs coming out. Maybe that's inevitable, but its interesting to see the likeliness between the old Elise's and the Elan from the 60's and the differences from the new range of models planned.
ETA: Video link
ETA: Video link
Edited by lazystudent on Friday 13th April 01:15
Junglehop said:
use the evora platform and new V8 for this:
and sort out the dealer network
My consultancy fees are in the post Danny.....
That was Mike Kimberley's plan before Bahar arrived. The Evora was intended to be the first of three cars on the same chassis- the supercharged Evora was supposed to be followed by a £90k Esprit using a BMW V8 in 2009/10 and a £150k supercar due about now. This plan was dropped when he retired on health grounds.and sort out the dealer network
My consultancy fees are in the post Danny.....
I remember asking the question of Clive Chapman at Goodwood Festival Of Speed Lotus Q&A -
Q. " Based on the fact that currently there's no real sports cars available for £25k, would Lotus not be better off building ( and selling in good numbers ) an afforadable lightweight sportscar for the next few years rather than taking on Lambos/Fezzas etc?"
A. " Danny Bahar is a very determined bloke with vision and blah blah blah..."
Surely a car in the mould of Elan/Elise but with more grunt and poss a more detailed/plusher interior? Maybe something ultralight with a big banger/thumper bike engine? Maybe a kit option? Whatever but surely not x5 new models that all cost big bucks, look like clones of sh*tty Jap concept cars, will fall short vs their competitors on all but steering feel etc..etc..
Employ the next Gordon Murray and give him a remit - Looks Great, £30K max, 250 bhp per ton,etc..
Too late me thinks....
Q. " Based on the fact that currently there's no real sports cars available for £25k, would Lotus not be better off building ( and selling in good numbers ) an afforadable lightweight sportscar for the next few years rather than taking on Lambos/Fezzas etc?"
A. " Danny Bahar is a very determined bloke with vision and blah blah blah..."
Surely a car in the mould of Elan/Elise but with more grunt and poss a more detailed/plusher interior? Maybe something ultralight with a big banger/thumper bike engine? Maybe a kit option? Whatever but surely not x5 new models that all cost big bucks, look like clones of sh*tty Jap concept cars, will fall short vs their competitors on all but steering feel etc..etc..
Employ the next Gordon Murray and give him a remit - Looks Great, £30K max, 250 bhp per ton,etc..
Too late me thinks....
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