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JuniorJet

416 posts

46 months

[news] 
Wednesday 11th April 2012 quote quote all
Ozzie Osmond said:
Here is Lotus' future; there is nothing else,



I believe it will work. If they ever get on and build some cars.
Sat in this in Geneva.

Bloody Beautiful, but people are buying with their heads not their hearts while there is so much uncertainty. Lotus needs to gain the confidence of its potential customers and thats hard because lets face it - reliability has never been their strong point.

rockymount

145 posts

49 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
I honestly believe that most PH’s DON’T want Lotus to fail (me included).

However with a few supercar exceptions (such as Zonda, Ferrari and McLaren) the reality of the market place in these very harsh economic times, is that you need to be producing and selling shed loads of very high quality cars to a whole load of increasing discerning people across the globe, just to stay in the game.

So when I read in this mornings news that BMW Group Group worldwide sales increased by 12 percent last month to 185,728 vehicles, bringing their cumulative total so far this year to a whopping 425,528 !, I thought to myself, they’ve obviously got a half decent business plan and should be fairly safe.

Meanwhile on the other hand I’m wondering, okay so how many cars have Lotus produced and sold this year and exactly what is their business plan to turn around an estimated £200m debt and then go on to produce a small range of cars that people will be willing to pay £50k+ for ? scratchchin

Unfortunately it doesn’t matter which way I answer it or how optimistic I am, the answer I keep coming up with just isn't very pretty frown

Although, I'd love to be persuaded otherwise by someone in the know teacher

TOENHEEL

4,471 posts

113 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
JuniorJet said:
Sat in this in Geneva.

Bloody Beautiful, but people are buying with their heads not their hearts while there is so much uncertainty. Lotus needs to gain the confidence of its potential customers and thats hard because lets face it - reliability has never been their strong point.
Lotus reliability is what everyone who hasn't owned one mentions yet the two Exige S's I've owned a 2007 and 2010 got driven properly hard constantly and I never had any issues. My last car was stunning and the build quality had improved massively over the 2007 car I owned. Theyve been more reliable than a brand new Porsche that I owned..

Edited by TOENHEEL on Thursday 12th April 00:41

rm89

296 posts

63 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
cathalm said:
Joe Saward is not sniff petrol, he is an F1 blogger who works for Tony Fernandes.

So the CEO and a board member of a rival company post fabrications and lies on the Internet to smear Lotus and you people think this reflects badly on .... lotus?

I despair of uk car enthusiasts if this is any evidence. Fernandes and his crony are showing behaviour vastly more unprofessional here than anything I have ever seen in business, you want to worry about a British car institution? Worry about Caterham. Their behaviour here is a disgrace to that proud company.

mattbvw

368 posts

101 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
If you work in the Lotus PR team I really think you should sit yourself down, get a nice cup of tea, and maybe a biscuit or two, and then think: Was that a wise thing to do?

If you still think 'yes' then I think you should leave, immediately, (NB Do not finish the cup of tea) and go get a job for a company that people either (a) aren't at all interested in, or (b) loathe beyond belief. Then we can all rest again. Thanks.
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MX7

7,897 posts

60 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
rm89 said:
cathalm said:
Joe Saward is not sniff petrol, he is an F1 blogger who works for Tony Fernandes.

So the CEO and a board member of a rival company post fabrications and lies on the Internet to smear Lotus and you people think this reflects badly on .... lotus?

I despair of uk car enthusiasts if this is any evidence. Fernandes and his crony are showing behaviour vastly more unprofessional here than anything I have ever seen in business, you want to worry about a British car institution? Worry about Caterham. Their behaviour here is a disgrace to that proud company.
That made me laugh. 10/10.

We'll have to wait and see what happens, but the Facebook thing did look slightly stupid, as has much of the efforts from Lotus over the last few years.

I think there's something going on, but only time will tell.

jest0r

8 posts

50 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
I don't often post on this forum because I find that most posts on this forum come from childish churs who no very little about the motor industry, but I find found myself having to post on this page having got very upset with the knockers and no all's concerning where and what Lotus should do.

just a little information here from a middle aged bloke, when at University studying Motor vehicle engineering the topics covered always seem to have Lotus involved within the technology, from trombone tuning in the Carlton to variable valve timing to ground effect and damper frequency. Lotus in my mind always seemed to be at the forefront of technology. Yes there cars could be fragile but let us not forget both Ferrari Lamborghini and many other sports cars of the same era where just as bad and normally twice the price. While at University the first elise was released and I promised myself one day I would buy one, what a car I had never seen anything like it before small, fast light weight and punching above its weight as most Lotus always have. A few years later I was able to purchase a a higher end car rather than your standard Euro box and decided to try various makes and models including evo's 350z's boxters and of course the Elise. Yes the other cars where nice but only one left me with a massive smile. After a test drive on the winding rounds around Hathersage Yorkshire of course it was the Elise that felt so alive I felt so connected to the car and the road. I took corners far faster than I would normally take, it made me feel like a race driver. Can I, can we allow this company to stop producing cars of this ilk ask yourself the knockers the moaners do you really think the Industry would be better without Lotus. No more Esprit no more light weight pocket rockets.

Yes I may sound sad to some people out there but I feel Lotus are trying to move to the next level never mind what you think of the management or there ideas concerning dj's and styling houses I think what has happened in the last year is close to a mirricle, the chance of 5 new cars a massive injection into motor sport and the ethos of new and exciting innovation still running through the brand.

Yes Lotus may be in bother yet again but its up to petrol heads like myself and others on this website to get behind Lotus, please guys stop the knocking take a look at what a small company like Lotus and Colin Chapman have given to the motor industry and get behind them instead of all the negative and I know better comments.

Just to let you know most cars today have something in them that Lotus either discovered or pioneered

Edited by jest0r on Thursday 12th April 02:56

GavinPearson

5,469 posts

137 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
I read about Lotus in justauto
http://www.just-auto.com/news/24-bst-rumours-swirl...
The critical comment is that the spokesperson acknowledged that the company is going through "a very difficult time".

That said, Lotus have an awful lot of expertise that is becoming an increasingly valuable commodity in today's market - they understand how to design very lightweight cars and how to make composites in niche model volumes, they can make bonded and riveted chassis from stampings, extrusions and castings.

The key to all of this though is the personnel they have, you can't buy the expertise in making things happen from a receiver on the cheap.

This means that their Engineering division should have a good future ahead of them.

I think the best thing that Lotus could do going forward is limit the number of models they make and focus on providing performance with low CO2 impact while making some variants of the vehicles easier to drive - automatic transmissions, more compliant ride, electric conveniences. They also need to expand the number of sales outlets.


MadDog1962

447 posts

48 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
It would be very very sad if Lotus went the way of TVR. But the big issue with their products has always been (for most of us) the poor resale value, which are a consequence of reliability and build quality concerns.

If I lived in the UK I'd love to own a Lotus as a second car. So many Lotus owners (real enthusiasts) seem to love their cars. Without doubt they are wonderful piece of British motoring heritage. Lotus have produced some of the most innovative, interesting and exciting light sports cars as well as real icons like the Esprit etc.

Unfortunately, there are not enough people in that kind of category who'll put up with the headaches that Lotus ownership is said by many to entail. It almsots seems like owning a Lotus is worse than being married to my loony ex-wife.

Maybe if Honda or Toyota could help them make something that didn't fall apart or live up to the "Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious" joke then they'd have a brighter more certain future. As it is I don't think there's a Pistonhead billionaire out there who's got 200 million quid spare to fix their problems as a stand alone entity.

SrMoreno

372 posts

32 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
MadDog1962 said:
It would be very very sad if Lotus went the way of TVR. But the big issue with their products has always been (for most of us) the poor resale value, which are a consequence of reliability and build quality concerns.
Have a look at the classifieds. Lotus resale values are no worse than any other performance car company, and for the Elise variants are far better than just about anything else. An Elise will hold much more of its value than a Boxster or Cayman, for example.

forzaminardi

1,250 posts

73 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
I have to admit I was surprised about the Joe Saward revelation, as he is a notoriously miserable old b@st@ard who despite his undoubted knowledge of F1, tends to go off on completely the wrong tangent as soon as one of his stories involves something more complex than simply racing cars and racing drivers - for evidence, see the fool he made of himself in last year's "Force India Told Me Lies" debacle...

Aside from that, I don't really hold with Lotus PR going all schoolgirl and getting personal. While we're on the topic of schoolchildren, a 7 year old could tell that Dany Behar's plan, while the ambition and nerve has to be respected, is bound to fail. They will never, ever sell enough of the new cars (which aren't anywhere near production) to make back the investment in the identified 5 years. I'm not especially a mega Lotus fan, but it would be sad for another once-great manufacturer to die, especially one that continues to make great cars (irrespective of how profitably). I would be in favour of a Honda or Toyota taking over Lotus and continuing to make 'traditional' Lotuses (maybe with a mad supercar thrown in for a laugh) and the skill of Lotus engineers benefiting the other more workaday products of the parent.

RYH64E

4,969 posts

130 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
jest0r said:
I don't often post on this forum because I find that most posts on this forum come from childish churs who no very little about the motor industry, but I find found myself having to post on this page having got very upset with the knockers and no all's concerning where and what Lotus should do.

just a little information here from a middle aged bloke, when at University studying Motor vehicle engineering the topics covered always seem to have Lotus involved within the technology, from trombone tuning in the Carlton to variable valve timing to ground effect and damper frequency. Lotus in my mind always seemed to be at the forefront of technology. Yes there cars could be fragile but let us not forget both Ferrari Lamborghini and many other sports cars of the same era where just as bad and normally twice the price. While at University the first elise was released and I promised myself one day I would buy one, what a car I had never seen anything like it before small, fast light weight and punching above its weight as most Lotus always have. A few years later I was able to purchase a a higher end car rather than your standard Euro box and decided to try various makes and models including evo's 350z's boxters and of course the Elise. Yes the other cars where nice but only one left me with a massive smile. After a test drive on the winding rounds around Hathersage Yorkshire of course it was the Elise that felt so alive I felt so connected to the car and the road. I took corners far faster than I would normally take, it made me feel like a race driver. Can I, can we allow this company to stop producing cars of this ilk ask yourself the knockers the moaners do you really think the Industry would be better without Lotus. No more Esprit no more light weight pocket rockets.

Yes I may sound sad to some people out there but I feel Lotus are trying to move to the next level never mind what you think of the management or there ideas concerning dj's and styling houses I think what has happened in the last year is close to a mirricle, the chance of 5 new cars a massive injection into motor sport and the ethos of new and exciting innovation still running through the brand.

Yes Lotus may be in bother yet again but its up to petrol heads like myself and others on this website to get behind Lotus, please guys stop the knocking take a look at what a small company like Lotus and Colin Chapman have given to the motor industry and get behind them instead of all the negative and I know better comments.

Just to let you know most cars today have something in them that Lotus either discovered or pioneered

Edited by jest0r on Thursday 12th April 02:56
The last time Lotus made a light weight, innovative, fun car it was a huge success, that was the S1 Elise. I've got one stored away that comes out when the sun is shining, and on it's day it's fantastic (it's day being those rare days when the sun is shining, the roads are empty and you feel like driving it like you stole it).

It seems to me that Lotus have turned their back on what worked for them in an attempt to move up market, where cars are heavier, loaded with gadgets and more expensive. Potential owners of cars in the new target market are a lot more demanding than traditional Lotus buyers, they aren't interested in a car weighing 700 kg with a bonded aluminium chassis and metal matrix brake discs, they want climate control and heated seats and would be horrified if they heard a door rattle - Porsche are very good at making this kind of car, Lotus aren't. I don't understand why they don't get back to doing what they are good at, making affordable, lightweight, fun cars for enthusiasts.

PascalBuyens

2,868 posts

168 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
Didn't read all the thread, but when they presented their "5 model range" over a year ago, I couldn't stop thinking that they were dreaming...

Plus the fact that they SO desperately want to move their entire brand upmarket... Lotus has always been the "underdog" in my opinion, and with the Elise they went back to their core values: lightweight, not overly expensive, and bloody good fun to drive. Can't help it, but ever since they introduced the S2 Elise, they've been moving away again from that idea...

And I said it before... as good as it may be as a drivers car, the Esprit took Lotus into it's financial disaster in the 80's... this 5 model thing... Sorry Bahar, won't work... History repeating itself in my eyes...

ravon

379 posts

168 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
Forzaminardi, I have to disagree with your views on the depth of Joe Saward's bloggmanship, I've been reading his blog I think since it started, and have found his reporting to be very accurate, on this topic alone he forecast the Group Lotus debacle many, many months ago . This morning he has offered a very dignified response to the Group Lotus Press Release of yesterday, and clearly set out his duties and responsibilities to Caterham Cars.

Judging by the global English language response on the internet to the Group Lotus Press Release, it is seen as an epic own goal of previously unsurpassed magnitude, text book stuff for future generations .

JonRB

43,528 posts

158 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
jest0r said:
I don't often post on this forum because I find that most posts on this forum come from childish churs who no very little about the motor industry, but I find found myself having to post on this page having got very upset with the knockers and no all's concerning where and what Lotus should do.
Perhaps you should find a forum more worthy of your patronage then? rolleyes

DanDC5

8,911 posts

53 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
cathalm said:
Joe Saward is not sniff petrol, he is an F1 blogger who works for Tony Fernandes.

So the CEO and a board member of a rival company post fabrications and lies on the Internet to smear Lotus and you people think this reflects badly on .... lotus?

I despair of uk car enthusiasts if this is any evidence. Fernandes and his crony are showing behaviour vastly more unprofessional here than anything I have ever seen in business, you want to worry about a British car institution? Worry about Caterham. Their behaviour here is a disgrace to that proud company.
1000000% agree with this.

Greg_D

5,057 posts

132 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
ajprice said:
Autoblog have made a serious post about it and Proton/Lotus/Genii. Scroll down, press Show Press Release... There he is!!! biggrin

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/11/lotus-reveals-t...
Following on from that link, this is pretty cool

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/11/worlds-most-ove...

Dusty964

6,103 posts

76 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
jest0r said:
Can I, can we allow this company to stop producing cars of this ilk ask yourself the knockers the moaners do you really think the Industry would be better without Lotus. No more Esprit no more light weight pocket rockets.

Yes I may sound sad to some people out there but I feel Lotus are trying to move to the next level never mind what you think of the management or there ideas concerning dj's and styling houses I think what has happened in the last year is close to a mirricle, the chance of 5 new cars a massive injection into motor sport and the ethos of new and exciting innovation still running through the brand.

Yes Lotus may be in bother yet again but its up to petrol heads like myself and others on this website to get behind Lotus, please guys stop the knocking take a look at what a small company like Lotus and Colin Chapman have given to the motor industry and get behind them instead of all the negative and I know better comments.

Edited by jest0r on Thursday 12th April 02:56
But they already have stopped producing 'vehicles of this ilk'- they have got progressively heavier, and further from the ethos of Lotus cars. I also dont think that anyone on here has said that the industry would be better off without Lotus, more 'what the fk are Lotus doing?'
You say no more Esprit, no more lightweight pocket rockets? That is still the perception of Lotus to many- I cant speak for anyone else, but the greatest thing that could happen is that they sold the rights to the original Elise to Caterham, to go with their other amazing car.
You refer to them as these pocket rockets, but they no longer are- they are bigger, heavier, more cossetting- this is what the majority of the consumers now require- the best of all worlds, and hilst i would wager there would be a steady line of folk ready to pay for a new mark 1 elise, they are few that want to spend 40,50,60k...to who knows what when rivals do it better.

Im 37, what does Lotus mean to me?

Well, im too young to remember the Cortina and the F1 years, but have of course seen these things later. The first thing i guess that would spring to mind is the Spy who loved me. Good product placement, great looking car- a bedroom wall poster if ever there was one. Aged gracefully, and updated to suit- I would still love an Esprit, if just to tick it off 'the list' as it was one of the cars that had the WOW factor when you were growing up.
What else REALLY sticks in the grey matter?? Apart from the Carlton??
The launch of the Elise............followed by rave reviews, followed by stories of head gaskets, supply issues for brake discs, but always great reviews.

To me, Lotus has always represented the Esprit, various scandals, and constant ownership issues.
Whilst the new range of models looks great, they still look a million miles from ever reaching production- and a loyal fanbase i unlikely to help much.
I would love to see them survive- nay, flourish, but I think they would do so at a far smaller level than they exist currently. Get them back to their roots, producing cars that are lightweight, affordable, desirable and able to drive rings around the mainstream offerings.

You say that 'Lotus may be in bother again........its up to us to get behind lotus...'

Why? Get them to produce world class product that people want. Stop clowning around with huge launches- which always looked a little smoke and mirror.

Overall, as per the beachboys Mr Mike Love- DONT F*CK WITH THE FORMULA










V8 GRF

6,776 posts

96 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
RYH64E said:
The last time Lotus made a light weight, innovative, fun car it was a huge success, that was the S1 Elise. I've got one stored away that comes out when the sun is shining, and on it's day it's fantastic (it's day being those rare days when the sun is shining, the roads are empty and you feel like driving it like you stole it).
Totally agree with that, I've had a couple of Elans and fancied an Elise but decided that it wasn't suitable as my daily driver (so I bought a Griffith 500, go figuresmile)

The point of this post however is I've seen disturbing parallels between Lotus and TVR.

They have a hayday with the Elise MkI and MkII --- TVR have Hayday with Griffith/Chimaera and TuscanI

Enthused by those days they both expand and believe they can do no wrong

They both move away from their traditional enthusiast market and get themselves into the bottom/middle end of mainstream sportscars and are mixing it with Porsche, Mercedes, BMW.

Buyers in those markets are (mostly) not hardcore enthusiasts and want the car to work day in day out with no niggles.

Neither company is capable of the high standards required and misjudge teh market , sales fall.

Company is taken over by young, enthusiastic management who frankly don't understand the marque and its values and produce cars that don't sell in the numbers needed, they lurch from mistake to mistake.

TVR went bust........ frown

grumbledoak

18,758 posts

119 months

[news] 
Thursday 12th April 2012 quote quote all
Lotus have pretty much always been 'in proper bother'. The question is will they survive this one? As a product TVR were better placed to take on Porsche et al. And they are probably dead for good. Even Porsche needed the Cayenne, despite the "cash cow" 911.

What can Lotus really do?
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