RE: Jaguar F-Type: the inside story
Discussion
Can't see the point of fretting about autos/how it'll drive/etc.,etc.,etc., when the reality is that none of us know. The EType is (fabulous) ancient history and I won't even be thinking of making comparisons. Facts are (for me) that it looks good and it's exciting that Jaguar are about to launch what MAY be a wonderful sports car.
So, my deposit went down a long time ago. I therefore have the option on the first customer car from my dealer. If the car is everything I'm hoping for I'll take it - and be qualified to comment - if not I'll pass. Nothing to loose everything to gain.
So, my deposit went down a long time ago. I therefore have the option on the first customer car from my dealer. If the car is everything I'm hoping for I'll take it - and be qualified to comment - if not I'll pass. Nothing to loose everything to gain.
richardaucock said:
kambites said:
I assume that means the UK market?
Remarkably, that's global: it really is a small sector indeed. Porsche, for instance, sold 17,607 911 globally in 2011. 
steelej said:
garyhun said:
I'm not suggesting it has to be manual - dsg/pdk would be fine. Jaguar though are stating this is going to be a proper, nimble sports car. To me that cannot equate to a car with a full-on automatic torque converter box.
You driven any of the modern jags to make such a bold statement?John.
I was strictly a manual man until my most recent car. Now I have an XKR.
If I want to go into "attack mode" I can select "manual". I flap the paddle, it selects the gear I want it to, as quickly as I need it to. I really don't care about the mechanics behind it. I've had to adjust style a little, but no more than I have between different manual cars.
It just sort of works and feels quite similar to the 911 GTS I test drove (and a whole lot better than my missus Scirocco with DSG because mine can actually slow manoeuvre and glide at < 5 miles an hour with no bunny hopping).
It also has the fantastic advantage that in stop/start on the M25, or booooring 30mph traffic, or even like this morning round narrow lanes in fog when I'm half asleep the car I can leave it in waft mode and can just get on with it for me and pretty much react as I need it to.
If the new car has a gearbox as good as my XKR I'd be very happy with it. I don't see why I should ever bother with the distraction of a 3rd pedal ever again.
I don't want to take this thread into the even more boring than 996vs993 argument that is manual vs modern, but I will say this: Wait. Drive it for a reasonable period on a mix of roads and conditions, see if the whole package works for you. Don't make a rash, biased decisions on the paper spec. That is if those commenting are actually in the market for this car and not just shooting things down in theory.
Twincam16 said:
Can I say I'm more than a little excited. However...
The undoing of this car could be its gearbox. If they truly want to take the fight to BMW and Porsche, it needs to have a properly responsive 'box - either a traditional H-pattern manual or a paddleshift which changes gear precisely when the driver wants it to.
Otherwise, if it's slushbox-only, then no matter how good it is as an autobox it'll still be in SLK-ville.
Agree 100%, Jag a have been making brilliant cars with brilliant engine that look superb, while the gearboxes are very efficient and smooth, they do not come close to a nice 6 speed manual + 3 pedals.The undoing of this car could be its gearbox. If they truly want to take the fight to BMW and Porsche, it needs to have a properly responsive 'box - either a traditional H-pattern manual or a paddleshift which changes gear precisely when the driver wants it to.
Otherwise, if it's slushbox-only, then no matter how good it is as an autobox it'll still be in SLK-ville.
A nicely tuned 300-350bhp V6 (with or without SC) with a manual box, front engined RWD (with Mechanical LSD), in a good looking and rigid chassis, drop top, and sub 1400kg keb wt, will be the first car Jag has built in my life time (apart from XJ220) that I would really lust for!
Twincam16 said:
Can I say I'm more than a little excited. However...
The undoing of this car could be its gearbox. If they truly want to take the fight to BMW and Porsche, it needs to have a properly responsive 'box - either a traditional H-pattern manual or a paddleshift which changes gear precisely when the driver wants it to.
Otherwise, if it's slushbox-only, then no matter how good it is as an autobox it'll still be in SLK-ville.
I cant wait to see it for real, the coupe design of a year ago looked absolutley stunning, but as you say to make it a drivers car (which hopefully will happen) it does need a manual option and / or a very good paddleshift - the ZF (?) box in the XK et al is good compared to other autos but not compared to the DSG/PDKs etc, not sharp enough for a sports car...The undoing of this car could be its gearbox. If they truly want to take the fight to BMW and Porsche, it needs to have a properly responsive 'box - either a traditional H-pattern manual or a paddleshift which changes gear precisely when the driver wants it to.
Otherwise, if it's slushbox-only, then no matter how good it is as an autobox it'll still be in SLK-ville.
If it ends up being an AMG SLK competitor I will be very dissapointed, I test drove one as loved the noise of the V8 a few years ago but the auto box was a killer for fun and frustratingly slow and off I went back to Porsche...
DeadMeat_UK said:
steelej said:
garyhun said:
I'm not suggesting it has to be manual - dsg/pdk would be fine. Jaguar though are stating this is going to be a proper, nimble sports car. To me that cannot equate to a car with a full-on automatic torque converter box.
You driven any of the modern jags to make such a bold statement?John.
I was strictly a manual man until my most recent car. Now I have an XKR.
I was a strict 'must be a manual' for anything with sporty intents, and then I drove an X150 which totally changed my opinion. It was fantastic.
I'm pro-Jaguar and want this to be a truly awesome car, but when you see what technology, looks, performance and quality the all new Porsche Boxster has, for around £60k fully loaded with all the kit. A £55k price on the Jag has me biting my finger nails.......sort out a double clutch or a manual box ASAP, please.
Have Jaguars been like TVR's in the past?
During the 60s Jag's hallmark was 'Grace, Space, Pace'. TVRs have only really ever been 'pace'.
They may have big V8's but there the similarity ends methinks...
I would want something more sophisticated from Jaguar than something in the raw and ready spirit of TVR
During the 60s Jag's hallmark was 'Grace, Space, Pace'. TVRs have only really ever been 'pace'.
They may have big V8's but there the similarity ends methinks...
I would want something more sophisticated from Jaguar than something in the raw and ready spirit of TVR
Bit confused still by the gearbox whinning.
Surely you can't single out the gearbox, it's about the combination of gearbox and engine?
Jags, as far as my limited experience goes, are about engines with wide usable ranges, lots of torque, almost "lazy" power.
They don't go for screamy little fiesty engines and need to be kept on peak - you tend to have more than enough power most of the time.
So gear selection mechanism criteria change. As long as you have planned your corner or manoeuvre, you don't need frantic gearbox action to get it right. The current box in the XK seems able enough to let me do that. I've never had a situation where the (only milliseconds surely!) slower change has caused me any issue. And I've definitely given it beans along some good twisties and through roundabouts. You just need to plan your exit as part of your arrival (standard driving techniques I'd say). Track work, I'd agree, may be a different kettle of fish and if that's the point about wanting manual, I'd understand.
I can't imagine this car is going to be like an S1 Elise with a screamy little engine that you keep on the boil and work the gears hard - I think they'll leave that to other manufacturers. It'll be a sharp handling, but very poised A-B bit of kit with a deeply tractable engine.
Surely you can't single out the gearbox, it's about the combination of gearbox and engine?
Jags, as far as my limited experience goes, are about engines with wide usable ranges, lots of torque, almost "lazy" power.
They don't go for screamy little fiesty engines and need to be kept on peak - you tend to have more than enough power most of the time.
So gear selection mechanism criteria change. As long as you have planned your corner or manoeuvre, you don't need frantic gearbox action to get it right. The current box in the XK seems able enough to let me do that. I've never had a situation where the (only milliseconds surely!) slower change has caused me any issue. And I've definitely given it beans along some good twisties and through roundabouts. You just need to plan your exit as part of your arrival (standard driving techniques I'd say). Track work, I'd agree, may be a different kettle of fish and if that's the point about wanting manual, I'd understand.
I can't imagine this car is going to be like an S1 Elise with a screamy little engine that you keep on the boil and work the gears hard - I think they'll leave that to other manufacturers. It'll be a sharp handling, but very poised A-B bit of kit with a deeply tractable engine.
DeadMeat_UK said:
Bit confused still by the gearbox whinning.
Surely you can't single out the gearbox, it's about the combination of gearbox and engine?
Jags, as far as my limited experience goes, are about engines with wide usable ranges, lots of torque, almost "lazy" power.
They don't go for screamy little fiesty engines and need to be kept on peak - you tend to have more than enough power most of the time.
So gear selection mechanism criteria change. As long as you have planned your corner or manoeuvre, you don't need frantic gearbox action to get it right. The current box in the XK seems able enough to let me do that. I've never had a situation where the (only milliseconds surely!) slower change has caused me any issue. And I've definitely given it beans along some good twisties and through roundabouts. You just need to plan your exit as part of your arrival (standard driving techniques I'd say). Track work, I'd agree, may be a different kettle of fish and if that's the point about wanting manual, I'd understand.
I can't imagine this car is going to be like an S1 Elise with a screamy little engine that you keep on the boil and work the gears hard - I think they'll leave that to other manufacturers. It'll be a sharp handling, but very poised A-B bit of kit with a deeply tractable engine.
What I disliked on my XKR was the acceleration you got with the auto gearbox while down shifting, requiring extra braking. Go see what tech Porsche have on their new Boxster for £50k & tell me this F-Type will match it for the money & that you are not just buying the badge......Surely you can't single out the gearbox, it's about the combination of gearbox and engine?
Jags, as far as my limited experience goes, are about engines with wide usable ranges, lots of torque, almost "lazy" power.
They don't go for screamy little fiesty engines and need to be kept on peak - you tend to have more than enough power most of the time.
So gear selection mechanism criteria change. As long as you have planned your corner or manoeuvre, you don't need frantic gearbox action to get it right. The current box in the XK seems able enough to let me do that. I've never had a situation where the (only milliseconds surely!) slower change has caused me any issue. And I've definitely given it beans along some good twisties and through roundabouts. You just need to plan your exit as part of your arrival (standard driving techniques I'd say). Track work, I'd agree, may be a different kettle of fish and if that's the point about wanting manual, I'd understand.
I can't imagine this car is going to be like an S1 Elise with a screamy little engine that you keep on the boil and work the gears hard - I think they'll leave that to other manufacturers. It'll be a sharp handling, but very poised A-B bit of kit with a deeply tractable engine.
Triple7 said:
DeadMeat_UK said:
Bit confused still by the gearbox whinning.
Surely you can't single out the gearbox, it's about the combination of gearbox and engine?
Jags, as far as my limited experience goes, are about engines with wide usable ranges, lots of torque, almost "lazy" power.
They don't go for screamy little fiesty engines and need to be kept on peak - you tend to have more than enough power most of the time.
So gear selection mechanism criteria change. As long as you have planned your corner or manoeuvre, you don't need frantic gearbox action to get it right. The current box in the XK seems able enough to let me do that. I've never had a situation where the (only milliseconds surely!) slower change has caused me any issue. And I've definitely given it beans along some good twisties and through roundabouts. You just need to plan your exit as part of your arrival (standard driving techniques I'd say). Track work, I'd agree, may be a different kettle of fish and if that's the point about wanting manual, I'd understand.
I can't imagine this car is going to be like an S1 Elise with a screamy little engine that you keep on the boil and work the gears hard - I think they'll leave that to other manufacturers. It'll be a sharp handling, but very poised A-B bit of kit with a deeply tractable engine.
What I disliked on my XKR was the acceleration you got with the auto gearbox while down shifting, requiring extra braking. Go see what tech Porsche have on their new Boxster for £50k & tell me this F-Type will match it for the money & that you are not just buying the badge......Surely you can't single out the gearbox, it's about the combination of gearbox and engine?
Jags, as far as my limited experience goes, are about engines with wide usable ranges, lots of torque, almost "lazy" power.
They don't go for screamy little fiesty engines and need to be kept on peak - you tend to have more than enough power most of the time.
So gear selection mechanism criteria change. As long as you have planned your corner or manoeuvre, you don't need frantic gearbox action to get it right. The current box in the XK seems able enough to let me do that. I've never had a situation where the (only milliseconds surely!) slower change has caused me any issue. And I've definitely given it beans along some good twisties and through roundabouts. You just need to plan your exit as part of your arrival (standard driving techniques I'd say). Track work, I'd agree, may be a different kettle of fish and if that's the point about wanting manual, I'd understand.
I can't imagine this car is going to be like an S1 Elise with a screamy little engine that you keep on the boil and work the gears hard - I think they'll leave that to other manufacturers. It'll be a sharp handling, but very poised A-B bit of kit with a deeply tractable engine.
king mental supercharged V8 engine I have adjusted my throttle style accordingly and don't really have the issue. Sport mode gives more predictability but I understand your point.I've never been accused of buying something other than a Porsche due to badge snobbery
I think the PDK GTS I drove was a lovely thing but behaved in no better or worse way gearbox-wise. The manual 911 and Astons I test drove were also good, but the Jag won the day despite being the least desirable badge for me at the time. The ability to waft when I didn't want to play was a big factor in the choice TBH. As well as the rocket ship acceleration when I needed it - it remains THE best car for overtaking ever for me due to the pull out to the right, mash right foot ability it has. I don't have to knock it down a couple in anticipation and keep it on the boil. I absolutely had to be persuaded by the PH community to even try a Jag, I really didn't get the brand. I am now, however, a big fan.I don't think it's going to be a better car than the Boxter or 911 (not that you can measure, it's too subjective) I also don't think it'll be worse. I'm hoping it'll be different to give more choice and for people based on the style of drive/car/package they like. If they try to out Boxter the Boxter, they are screwed.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Ah, ok, understand now. It's the definition of sports car we differ on. Where on the line between Caterfield and SLK it sits. I guess we'll agree to differ, but I've found the older I've got and the worse UK roads and traffic have got, the more I've let that line slip (as can be seen from my car history)
British Beef said:
Agree 100%, Jag a have been making brilliant cars with brilliant engine that look superb, while the gearboxes are very efficient and smooth, they do not come close to a nice 6 speed manual + 3 pedals.
A nicely tuned 300-350bhp V6 (with or without SC) with a manual box, front engined RWD (with Mechanical LSD), in a good looking and rigid chassis, drop top, and sub 1400kg keb wt, will be the first car Jag has built in my life time (apart from XJ220) that I would really lust for!
Get ready to get reasonably lusty, though sub 1400kg is a little hopeful considering the boxster only just scrapes this, and this is more 911 sized which is more like 1500kg+ with decent kit, and nothing else in the class gets close to this.A nicely tuned 300-350bhp V6 (with or without SC) with a manual box, front engined RWD (with Mechanical LSD), in a good looking and rigid chassis, drop top, and sub 1400kg keb wt, will be the first car Jag has built in my life time (apart from XJ220) that I would really lust for!
Assume you (and everyone else on here)have driven a recent 8spd auto with a good petrol motor in a light enough car, performance is 90% of a top end DSG now, admitedly not the same feel as a manual, but offers lots of benefits too. Like it or not the manual is dying quickly, both due to emmissions regs and customer demand.
k-ink said:
Jaguar and "sports car" in the same sentance. Not in the last half century 
Jaguar will always be about iron girders, anvil like engines, slush boxes, golf club storage, keeping American cruisers happy.
No, but maybe in the same sentence.Jaguar will always be about iron girders, anvil like engines, slush boxes, golf club storage, keeping American cruisers happy.
At least give them some credit - making aluminium cars out of iron girders is quite an achievement.
k-ink said:
Jaguar and "sports car" in the same sentance. Not in the last half century
Jaguar will always be about iron girders, anvil like engines, slush boxes, golf club storage, keeping American cruisers happy.
Clearly, you've never driven a current, aluminium-bodied, XK-R. Why not take one for spin, you might be pleasantly surprised Jaguar will always be about iron girders, anvil like engines, slush boxes, golf club storage, keeping American cruisers happy.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff