Rapid estate cars v diesel estate
Discussion
66comanche said:
Have looked at the Legacy 3.0R but the consumption is truly horrendous! 30mpg I can maybe deal with but a realistic 20mpg, no ta.
Are you talking about an all-round figure or open road running? 30mpg should be easily attainable on a run - my Legacy GTB (280bhp twin turbo) does 30-32 on a run and averages around 26 in mixed use.A family friend saw 37mpg from his Legacy 3.0 sedan on one flat, boring 65mph trip.
Welshbeef said:
Bonefish Blues said:
Take a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYi1YOiMjLc
Most are autos, as is mine. Very comparable to my old 996 or RB320 in this range.
Looking at that video it shows 15/16 seconds he goes and 22+ he stops so a 7-8 second increment based upon speedo readings. Most are autos, as is mine. Very comparable to my old 996 or RB320 in this range.
I've just opened up this weeks autocar for the road test results and looking at the 30-70 mph. Going down the list the first car I encounter which is an estate is the 520d SE touring which does it in 8.3 seconds.
Also out of the three alfa Mitos with test data only the 1.9 diesel is slower with 9seconds the 1.4 petrol does it in 6.5 seconds.
Hence it's not quick.
A McLaren does it in 2.3 seconds
Luke. said:
Come again?
Look at the you tube he accelerates from a speedo indicated 30mph at 15/16 seconds then hits 70mph in 3rd gear at 22+ seconds so the duration for the 30-70mph increment is 7-8sexonds based upon looking at rough you tube timing and fhe speedo. Next if you look in autocar towards the back they have road tests lists of previous results 0-60/0-100/30-70 max speed.
I looked down that list to see the first estate I could find which was a similar time and I found the BMW 520d SE touring did it in an official 8.3 seconds.
I also highlighted that two Mito alfas do it in 6.5 seconds one of which is a 1.4 petrol turbo
I then also highlighted what is truely fast the McLaren Mp4 -12c 2.3 seconds to do it.
Hence if he thought the Saab aero was quickand biased to low down 30-70mph increments then he's going to be mighty annoyed that a 2ltr diesel in a heavier car does it in practically the same time. In addition I put those Mito times in to highlight imthe Aero ist fast at all as a 1.4 ltr turbo can do it a touch quicker and that's not a fast carcc
Pretty much repeated what I posted earlier but wanted to make it clearer hope this one makes more sense.
The 3 litre lump in the e46 3 series really is lovely and in my coupe I get low twenties around town and mid thirties on a run at sensible speeds, so pretty economical.
The X type is a lot of car for the money, but the 4wd does eat into fuel economy compared to the Beemer. Additionally, can't imagine it being much bigger then the 3 series.
Maybe consider a late e39 530i sport touring if the e46 is too small. Very nice cars and still look good in sport guise.
From what I'v heard though, most of the cars on your list aren't great on the juice.
The X type is a lot of car for the money, but the 4wd does eat into fuel economy compared to the Beemer. Additionally, can't imagine it being much bigger then the 3 series.
Maybe consider a late e39 530i sport touring if the e46 is too small. Very nice cars and still look good in sport guise.
From what I'v heard though, most of the cars on your list aren't great on the juice.
H_Kan said:
The 3 litre lump in the e46 3 series really is lovely and in my coupe I get low twenties around town and mid thirties on a run at sensible speeds, so pretty economical.
The X type is a lot of car for the money, but the 4wd does eat into fuel economy compared to the Beemer. Additionally, can't imagine it being much bigger then the 3 series.
Maybe consider a late e39 530i sport touring if the e46 is too small. Very nice cars and still look good in sport guise.
From what I'v heard though, most of the cars on your list aren't great on the juice.
IIrc the X type had the biggest loadspace in it's class.The X type is a lot of car for the money, but the 4wd does eat into fuel economy compared to the Beemer. Additionally, can't imagine it being much bigger then the 3 series.
Maybe consider a late e39 530i sport touring if the e46 is too small. Very nice cars and still look good in sport guise.
From what I'v heard though, most of the cars on your list aren't great on the juice.
Welshbeef said:
Look at the you tube he accelerates from a speedo indicated 30mph at 15/16 seconds then hits 70mph in 3rd gear at 22+ seconds so the duration for the 30-70mph increment is 7-8sexonds based upon looking at rough you tube timing and fhe speedo.
Next if you look in autocar towards the back they have road tests lists of previous results 0-60/0-100/30-70 max speed.
I looked down that list to see the first estate I could find which was a similar time and I found the BMW 520d SE touring did it in an official 8.3 seconds.
I also highlighted that two Mito alfas do it in 6.5 seconds one of which is a 1.4 petrol turbo
I then also highlighted what is truely fast the McLaren Mp4 -12c 2.3 seconds to do it.
Hence if he thought the Saab aero was quickand biased to low down 30-70mph increments then he's going to be mighty annoyed that a 2ltr diesel in a heavier car does it in practically the same time. In addition I put those Mito times in to highlight imthe Aero ist fast at all as a 1.4 ltr turbo can do it a touch quicker and that's not a fast carcc
Pretty much repeated what I posted earlier but wanted to make it clearer hope this one makes more sense.
I make 30-70 in about 7 seconds (with a fairly lethargic gear change), if the 520d does the same sprint in 8.3 then it is about 1.3 seconds off the pace, if you factor in other nonsense like a faster gearbox in the 520d, or the fact that it doesn't have to change gear at all, then it'll feel much slower than the Saab in the real world, which is shirley what it's all about? Next if you look in autocar towards the back they have road tests lists of previous results 0-60/0-100/30-70 max speed.
I looked down that list to see the first estate I could find which was a similar time and I found the BMW 520d SE touring did it in an official 8.3 seconds.
I also highlighted that two Mito alfas do it in 6.5 seconds one of which is a 1.4 petrol turbo
I then also highlighted what is truely fast the McLaren Mp4 -12c 2.3 seconds to do it.
Hence if he thought the Saab aero was quickand biased to low down 30-70mph increments then he's going to be mighty annoyed that a 2ltr diesel in a heavier car does it in practically the same time. In addition I put those Mito times in to highlight imthe Aero ist fast at all as a 1.4 ltr turbo can do it a touch quicker and that's not a fast carcc
Pretty much repeated what I posted earlier but wanted to make it clearer hope this one makes more sense.
If you don't consider a 7 second 30-70mph in a vast auto estate to be fast then fair enough, but considering what it is, that is pretty effing brisk...
Welshbeef said:
tali1 said:
IIrc the X type had the biggest loadspace in it's class.
Nope that would be the Vectra. Biggest overall is the E class but that is next size up.
Page 10 of Jag press release
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:kND...
PlugUgly said:
I make 30-70 in about 7 seconds (with a fairly lethargic gear change), if the 520d does the same sprint in 8.3 then it is about 1.3 seconds off the pace, if you factor in other nonsense like a faster gearbox in the 520d, or the fact that it doesn't have to change gear at all, then it'll feel much slower than the Saab in the real world, which is shirley what it's all about?
If you don't consider a 7 second 30-70mph in a vast auto estate to be fast then fair enough, but considering what it is, that is pretty effing brisk...
Firstly were guessing here on the time and speedo vs dratron timing gear. If you don't consider a 7 second 30-70mph in a vast auto estate to be fast then fair enough, but considering what it is, that is pretty effing brisk...
The 520d does need to change once as 2nd will not do it.
The point is very clearly saying a Car is fast yet very similar to a 2ltr diesel in speed terms but in a lighter car...
Also what you and others have said here about the Saab has basically played into the territory of te diesel. The 30-70mph sprint through the gears is what they are best at. What I would add is that for the 30-70mph increment I'm pretty sure for the 330d it is around the 5 second mark which is a quick car but not a fast car. Ad as I've already found out when I posted up you need something very special to pass a 330d if it was in 4th gear the you floor it from 40mph to 100mph you don't really.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2004-MG-ZT-T-4-6-V8-260-...
i have a mondeo tdci 140 by the way, can definitely recommend it
i have a mondeo tdci 140 by the way, can definitely recommend it
PlugUgly said:
I make 30-70 in about 7 seconds (with a fairly lethargic gear change), if the 520d does the same sprint in 8.3 then it is about 1.3 seconds off the pace, if you factor in other nonsense like a faster gearbox in the 520d, or the fact that it doesn't have to change gear at all, then it'll feel much slower than the Saab in the real world, which is shirley what it's all about?
If you don't consider a 7 second 30-70mph in a vast auto estate to be fast then fair enough, but considering what it is, that is pretty effing brisk...
Its a poor choice of example , iirc power is restricted in 1st and 2nd on the aero so tyres last more than a week. Overboost takes it to 275bhp or 280bhp in 3rd onwards. In third gear at full tilt the 9-5 aero is remarkably rapid.If you don't consider a 7 second 30-70mph in a vast auto estate to be fast then fair enough, but considering what it is, that is pretty effing brisk...
I think Welshbeef was taken advantage of by a predatory 9-5 as a youngster and still has nightmares.
Welshbeef said:
Seriously it isn't quick I know the weight of the vehicle I know the outputs of the engine so unless the weight is over stated and the outputs drastically understated then it's not quick.
Those of us who actually drive one every day (like me) will tell you that it's a worthy contender for the OP's requirements & budget, regardless of the opinion of someone who knows the car intimately purely by reading some numbers.RH
Yep, if you want a proper fast estate buy a C43 AMG or E55 AMG.
If you want a quickish estate with reasonable MPG and running costs get the octavia VRS 1.8T estate and re-map it.
If you fancy something completely different buy the Alfa, but there isnt much room in the boot...
If you want economy with good torque buy a Mondeo 2.2. TDCI estate.
Simmplllzzz
If it were me, Id buy a 330i E46 estate. I nearly did 3 years ago and would still like one. Its quick enough without the ruinous economy and its RWD. £5k will buy a nice example. YOu can get some big bills, but being naturally aspirated you dont have injectors, dfs and the like to worry about.
If you want a quickish estate with reasonable MPG and running costs get the octavia VRS 1.8T estate and re-map it.
If you fancy something completely different buy the Alfa, but there isnt much room in the boot...
If you want economy with good torque buy a Mondeo 2.2. TDCI estate.
Simmplllzzz
If it were me, Id buy a 330i E46 estate. I nearly did 3 years ago and would still like one. Its quick enough without the ruinous economy and its RWD. £5k will buy a nice example. YOu can get some big bills, but being naturally aspirated you dont have injectors, dfs and the like to worry about.
Edited by StevieB on Saturday 14th April 08:50
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