Capri or Corvette?

[Pedmeister]

doogz said:

300bhp/ton said:

Not this again FFS. I couldn't give a smegging chuff what market it was designed for. Ford is 100% American!!! And the fact they sold the car over kinda shows it wasn't only destined for Europe.

100% American. Except the car was designed by Ford of Europe. Based in Germany somewhere.

ia
The Capri was NOT an American car. It is irrelevant that FORD is essentially an American company. Ford of Europe effectively operate independantly of Ford USA. You are being pedantic and splitting hairs. It was conceived and designed ENTIRELY in Europe. If the Capri is 'American,' then no doubt you believe the RS2000, XR3i, RS1600i, Granada, Cortina, Sierra, Sierra Cosworths are, 'American?!' Ridiculous comment. ROFL

[Pedmeister]

doogz said:

Pedmeister said:

The Capri was definitely designed in Europe. One of the design engineers was a guy called Claude Lobo, who was a young guy at the time. He still works in design and is immensely proud of his involvement in the design of the Capri. He keeps a large picture of a 2.8i Special in lacquer red hung on his office wall.

The US spec Mercury Capris had different engines. They never received the 3 litre Essex engines, they had 2.3 & 2.6 V6 carb fed engines, which offered pedestrian performance given the anti-smog kit on them.

The finest Mk1 Capri was the RS2600 Capri. It was a 2,600cc Cologne engine fitted with Kugelfischer fuel injection. It produced 150 Bhp- which was considerable poke in 1974. It was also Ford of Europe's first car fitted with fuel injection. 0-60 in 7.2 seconds and a top end of 126 mph- which was serious performance in the 1970's. They were not sold in the UK, although a handful have been brought over to the UK. I know a guy who owns one.

You must have an impressive beard.

Don't do facial hair, I just know my Capris- unlike many posters here

[ChristophStone]

I have had a 1972 mk1 Capri for the past 3 years, since I was 19. It was originally a 1.6 but has been fitted with a 2.0 pinto, fast road cam, 4 branch manifold, 5 speed box, leccy ignition, kenlowe fan, fully adjustable front struts and coilovers, front disc brake conversion, single leaf springs and adjustable dampers at the back.

All fully declared it costs me £800 a yr to insure on classic insurance.

It is daytona yellow with a black vinyl roof and is an absolute hoot to drive - sure it's not all that reliable, and crashes over any little bump in the road, but I've taken it on a Euro road trip for 3000 miles and it was fine. It gets a whole world of attention, and you feel a million dollars while driving it.

It's not all that fast, probably about 8s to 60, and it has enough dry grip to not worry about planting it in a hedge too often. In the wet it is a little barsteward and keeping it in a straight line in second (and sometimes third) can be a struggle - it can be a bit embarrassing to end up sideways in traffic on slight bends, but you get used to it - and as with anything, it's how you drive it. Take care and you're fine. (I don't take too much care, I like being kept on my toes).

I paid £4500 and you can easily get a good mk1 in your budget. I'd completely recommend it over a mk2 or 3. Totally different animal, but much cooler IMO.

Incidently mine is up for sale soon if anyone is interested ;-).

[deltashad]

Both amazing cars, but look at the Corvette.... corrrr..... the drummer from Def Leppard lost his arm in one... Legend....

[Pedmeister]

doogz said:

Pedmeister said:

ia
The Capri was NOT an American car. It is irrelevant that FORD is essentially an American company. Ford of Europe effectively operate independantly of Ford USA. You are being pedantic and splitting hairs. It was conceived and designed ENTIRELY in Europe. If the Capri is 'American,' then no doubt you believe the RS2000, XR3i, RS1600i, Granada, Cortina, Sierra, Sierra Cosworths are, 'American?!' Ridiculous comment. ROFL

I think maybe you missed my point.

Ah! yes! My apologies, I misread your comment!

[s m]

Pedmeister said:

The finest Mk1 Capri was the RS2600 Capri. It was a 2,600cc Cologne engine fitted with Kugelfischer fuel injection. It produced 150 Bhp- which was considerable poke in 1974. It was also Ford of Europe's first car fitted with fuel injection. 0-60 in 7.2 seconds and a top end of 126 mph- which was serious performance in the 1970's. They were not sold in the UK, although a handful have been brought over to the UK. I know a guy who owns one.

This one?

[Pedmeister]

ChristophStone said:

I have had a 1972 mk1 Capri for the past 3 years, since I was 19. It was originally a 1.6 but has been fitted with a 2.0 pinto, fast road cam, 4 branch manifold, 5 speed box, leccy ignition, kenlowe fan, fully adjustable front struts and coilovers, front disc brake conversion, single leaf springs and adjustable dampers at the back.

All fully declared it costs me £800 a yr to insure on classic insurance.

It is daytona yellow with a black vinyl roof and is an absolute hoot to drive - sure it's not all that reliable, and crashes over any little bump in the road, but I've taken it on a Euro road trip for 3000 miles and it was fine. It gets a whole world of attention, and you feel a million dollars while driving it.

It's not all that fast, probably about 8s to 60, and it has enough dry grip to not worry about planting it in a hedge too often. In the wet it is a little barsteward and keeping it in a straight line in second (and sometimes third) can be a struggle - it can be a bit embarrassing to end up sideways in traffic on slight bends, but you get used to it - and as with anything, it's how you drive it. Take care and you're fine. (I don't take too much care, I like being kept on my toes).

I paid £4500 and you can easily get a good mk1 in your budget. I'd completely recommend it over a mk2 or 3. Totally different animal, but much cooler IMO.

Incidently mine is up for sale soon if anyone is interested ;-).

Most excellent! Glad to see the Capri still has an appeal with young uns! My first car in 1992 was a Mk3 Capri LS. It originally had a 1.6 pinto, but some kind soul fitted a 2.0 pinto. It still ran with the 1.6 final drive ratios, so although 1st & 2nd gears were fairly redundant, it went like a rocket in 3rd & 4th. I fitted electronic ignition to it, along with mint 4 bar RS alloys, a clean interior from a 3.0S- fishnet Recaro seats! I also re-bushed the entire suspension and fitted 2.8i monoleaf springs. Quite a stiff ride but it handled very welll indeed. I learnt how to drive a RWD drive car properly in that first car and I loved it to bits!

Your Mk1 sounds great- a proper practical classic. I have attached a picture of a MK1 3.0 litre which a friend of mine has owned FROM NEW in 1972! It has a mere 25,000 miles on the clock. The panels are 100% original, it has never seen a welding torch. The paint is original, as per Halewood plant in Liverpool. Only the bonnet has been repainted...The car was originally a 3000E. However, my mate decided to modify the car to resemble an RS3100. He purchased all the necessary parts brand new from Ford in the 70's. He also fitted a MK2/3 wiring loom, so it has column stalk controls etc. The project stalled when his parents fell into poor health. He basically left it under a dust sheet in his insulated garage for over thirteen years. I met him at a Ford dealers in 92/3, he owns a Brooklands 280 as well, which I was admiring at the time. Anyway, long story short, I helped him rebuild the car over the course of the winter. It is a fantastic car to drive, it feels like it has a V8 under the hood- effortless, lazy torque!

Anyway, enjoy the photo's!

[Pedmeister]

s m said:

Pedmeister said:

The finest Mk1 Capri was the RS2600 Capri. It was a 2,600cc Cologne engine fitted with Kugelfischer fuel injection. It produced 150 Bhp- which was considerable poke in 1974. It was also Ford of Europe's first car fitted with fuel injection. 0-60 in 7.2 seconds and a top end of 126 mph- which was serious performance in the 1970's. They were not sold in the UK, although a handful have been brought over to the UK. I know a guy who owns one.

This one?

That's the Bad Boy RS2600 alright! Fantastic machine. 0-60 in 7.2 seconds in 1974 was serious stuff, no slouch today either!

[k-ink]

What do you guys think about Capri's with modern Zetec engine conversions? Would they possibly be: lighter, better handling, just as fast, more tuning potential, more reliable, more fuel efficient?

Just a thought as I've seen a few with these conversions.

[Pedmeister]

k-ink said:

What do you guys think about Capri's with modern Zetec engine conversions? Would they possibly be: lighter, better handling, just as fast, more tuning potential, more reliable, more fuel efficient?

Just a thought as I've seen a few with these conversions.

Zetec engine? Quite a canny mod IMHO. More power to start with than a Pinto, more fuel efficient-plenty of tuning scope too. It's a winner! Have a look on the Caprsport web, they have some information re the conversion.

[s m]

Pedmeister said:

Most excellent! Glad to see the Capri still has an appeal with young uns! My first car in 1992 was a Mk3 Capri LS. It originally had a 1.6 pinto, but some kind soul fitted a 2.0 pinto. It still ran with the 1.6 final drive ratios, so although 1st & 2nd gears were fairly redundant, it went like a rocket in 3rd & 4th. I fitted electronic ignition to it, along with mint 4 bar RS alloys, a clean interior from a 3.0S- fishnet Recaro seats! I also re-bushed the entire suspension and fitted 2.8i monoleaf springs. Quite a stiff ride but it handled very welll indeed. I learnt how to drive a RWD drive car properly in that first car and I loved it to bits!

Your Mk1 sounds great- a proper practical classic. I have attached a picture of a MK1 3.0 litre which a friend of mine has owned FROM NEW in 1972! It has a mere 25,000 miles on the clock. The panels are 100% original, it has never seen a welding torch. The paint is original, as per Halewood plant in Liverpool. Only the bonnet has been repainted...The car was originally a 3000E. However, my mate decided to modify the car to resemble an RS3100. He purchased all the necessary parts brand new from Ford in the 70's. He also fitted a MK2/3 wiring loom, so it has column stalk controls etc. The project stalled when his parents fell into poor health. He basically left it under a dust sheet in his insulated garage for over thirteen years. I met him at a Ford dealers in 92/3, he owns a Brooklands 280 as well, which I was admiring at the time. Anyway, long story short, I helped him rebuild the car over the course of the winter. It is a fantastic car to drive, it feels like it has a V8 under the hood- effortless, lazy torque!

Anyway, enjoy the photo's!

That looks lovely

Have driven a 3.0S and the engine is very different to a 2.8 - really grunty low down

[Pedmeister]

s m said:

Pedmeister said:

Most excellent! Glad to see the Capri still has an appeal with young uns! My first car in 1992 was a Mk3 Capri LS. It originally had a 1.6 pinto, but some kind soul fitted a 2.0 pinto. It still ran with the 1.6 final drive ratios, so although 1st & 2nd gears were fairly redundant, it went like a rocket in 3rd & 4th. I fitted electronic ignition to it, along with mint 4 bar RS alloys, a clean interior from a 3.0S- fishnet Recaro seats! I also re-bushed the entire suspension and fitted 2.8i monoleaf springs. Quite a stiff ride but it handled very welll indeed. I learnt how to drive a RWD drive car properly in that first car and I loved it to bits!

Your Mk1 sounds great- a proper practical classic. I have attached a picture of a MK1 3.0 litre which a friend of mine has owned FROM NEW in 1972! It has a mere 25,000 miles on the clock. The panels are 100% original, it has never seen a welding torch. The paint is original, as per Halewood plant in Liverpool. Only the bonnet has been repainted...The car was originally a 3000E. However, my mate decided to modify the car to resemble an RS3100. He purchased all the necessary parts brand new from Ford in the 70's. He also fitted a MK2/3 wiring loom, so it has column stalk controls etc. The project stalled when his parents fell into poor health. He basically left it under a dust sheet in his insulated garage for over thirteen years. I met him at a Ford dealers in 92/3, he owns a Brooklands 280 as well, which I was admiring at the time. Anyway, long story short, I helped him rebuild the car over the course of the winter. It is a fantastic car to drive, it feels like it has a V8 under the hood- effortless, lazy torque!

Anyway, enjoy the photo's!

That looks lovely

Have driven a 3.0S and the engine is very different to a 2.8 - really grunty low down

The Cologne engine has a relatively short stroke, it is termed 'over square.' Hence it tends to be a little torque shy at the bottom end. The Essex crankshaft has a longer throw,and slightly bigger capacity, hence it kicks out more torque. You are correct in stating that the engines have a very different feel about them. The Cologne is more of a revver, whilst the Essex has a lazy punchy feel to it. If you haven't driven a 3 litre Essex, you have missed out on a superb experience. Personally, I think the Essex has a more refined, effortless feel to it. It definitely produces more POWER & TORQUE in the low to mid-range than the Cologne. It is only once the Cologne starts to get higher up the rev range that it starts to outperform the Essex.

In the real world, I have experienced this. My mate's MK1 3 litre(as pictured) was used in a BBC Panarama episode about fourteen years ago. I remember the day well, because I was behind Ed's 'Yellow Peril,' at a set of traffic lights. He decided to give it a bootful and I had to hammer my 2.8i(-which was standard at the time) to hold onto his coat tails. He was actually getting away from me initially through 1st & 2nd gear due to the higher level of torque the Essex produces low down.

My first engine mod was the 3,000 cc conversion by the now defunct AES. They fitted a Cosworth V6 crank and bored the cylinders out by 1mm. They also fitted a Kent fast road cam, and stage 1 heads with hardened valve seats. In conjuction with the Magnex exhaust, the engine kicked out about 185-190 Bhp. It went like stink, being blueprinted made a significant difference to smoothness and it's willingness to rev- like a turbine! It produced an awesome exhaust note-very similar to a TVR V8. It would rasp under load when changing up- petrolhead heaven! Despite the increase in stroke & bore, it still did not have quite the same grunty feel at low-mid range that the Essex has.

I got greedy in 2006/7 & had a brand new Turbo Technics system fitted. It has a larger intercooler than standard conversions in the 80's/90's had. I think it is a superb conversion, no noticible turbo lag, just a continual smooth surge of power. It feels like it has a large V8 under the bonnet. The only downside is the exhaust note has dropped off, due to the turbo itself. However, I have plans to have the Magnex system fettled to allow the growl of the V6 to come through again. The torque output is phenomenal frankly- 293 ft lbs in car that weighs the same as a modern Ford Fiesta! It's like engaging warp drive on the Millenium Falcon! lol The in-gear acceleration is ferocious if you plant your foot in the carpet, and definitely not for the faint hearted. I hammered an Aston V8 Vantage around Elvington two years ago, and I do mean HAMMERED! In terms of performance, it genuinely did not feel any quicker than my Capri-in a straight line. Where it did score was handling/grip which was fantastic. Although the Aston IS quicker, it did not feel it because it is so much heavier. It makes for a superb Q-car on occasion!

Have you got any photo's of your Mk1??

[DouggyMc]

Capri everytime!

I currently drive a 2.8i Special, it's an absolutely fantastic car I would recommend one in an instant. Absolutely no idea about the vette, it's never really took my interest!
Be prepared for mr BP and mr Shell to hoover your wallet dry though!

[kambites]

I suspect you'll get a significantly better Capri than Corvette for that money, so on that basis I'd say the Capri.

Porsche 928 might be worth considering in the same kind of market, maybe?

Edited by kambites on Tuesday 17th April 19:07

[s m]

Anyone remember that old Goodwin/Sutcliffe article where they had to buy the fastest thing they could for a small sum and then race them round a track?

Sutcliffe bought a 2.8i and just beat Goodwin's Rover 3500



CAR did a similar one with a 3 litre Capri vs an RX7


Less than 1200kg, thin 205 tyres, LSD on Specials, coupe looks, adjustable chassis........relevant even now

Edited by s m on Tuesday 17th April 19:17

[LuS1fer]

If considering a C4 Corvette, the '84 was a stiffly-spring Crossfire with 205hp and largely best avoided.
From 1985, the Corvette got TPI or tuned Port Injection which was modelled on the Bosche system and initially made 230hp. The "headline" figures for that year were 150mph and o-60 in 5.9 seconds. I had a 1985 one from 1994-7 and it was a great car.
The instrument panel is prone to failure but you can now get replacements more readily. The headlamp motors are also prone to stripping but gears are cheap enough. You can also get chips for the ECU which I did and it made a big difference. Mine was auto and the older manual box was not great having a 4+3 OD arrangement.
As noted, power went up gradually to 250hp
The restyle came in 1991 but kept the old L98 engine and the 300hp LT1 was added in 1992 along with a new 6 speed manual.

The two are completely different.

The other option is a 4th gen Camaro/Firebird with the LT1 from 1993-97 and the LS1 from '98.

[kambites]

The Porsche 928 might be worth a look?

[s m]

swerni said:

And yet the capri has crap handling,

If it's the 2.8 he mentioned in the OP, rather contrary to your view, they were quite well praised in the press of the time for their predictable handling.

[s m]

swerni said:

Have you bothered looking at my car history?

My first 2 cars were Carpi's
Although I haven't owned a 2.8 I've driven a quite a few.
The Capri has set the tone for most of my motoring history.


I love Capri's but some things are better looking back with rose tinted glasses

No, I'm just telling you how the press at that time perceived them alongside their contemporaries.
8 seconds to 60 and 130mph is not fast to you now ( to some it would be acceptable even now ) but 30 years ago it was fast.

Your experience may differ from that of the mainstream press but I can tell you that no mag of the time thought the 2.8i was "crap handling".

[s m]

swerni said:

you driven one?

Yes, I have, also a 3.0S and 2.0S.

They were a popular car with my friends in the mid 80s, along with rwd Escorts, Mantas, 205s, BMW 3s.