Capri or Corvette?

[OllieC]

swerni said:

s m said:

swerni said:

you driven one?

Yes, I have, also a 3.0S and 2.0S.

They were a popular car with my friends in the mid 80s, along with rwd Escorts, Mantas, 205s, BMW 3s.

Another Essex boy

I always wished I'd gone for the 3.0s instead of the 2.0 Ghia.

I'll still stand by my comments, they were way too tail happy

I was going to say that there is now way it was around 30 years ago, then I looked up the launch date.
st, it makes me feel very old

I dont want to this to degenerate into a fanboy capri love in...

but modern tyre technology makes a huge difference to capris, even if you stick with the 'old' high profile tyres. Add a set of 15" replacements in a 50 profile and things are a lot better still (imho)

I dont claim to be a motoring expert, but a 2.8i to me did handle pretty well. Dont knwo what difference the LSD made as mine had one, never drove one without...

[T0nup]

Have to be the Capri for me. But go for the 3.0 Essex rather than the 2.8 Cologne engine. (Lots of inherant plenum chamber and injection issues are always moaned about in the club mags)

Wouldn't worry about the LSD, a little tail end respect will pay dividends, as will spending a little on stiffening up the car with polybushes and a rear anxle X frame and stiffer springs.

One of the biggest mistakes I ever made was selling my 1980 Capri Ghia.

Hope this helps, but in a couple of years time, you maybe thinking very differently about what appeals to you.

[s m]

OllieC said:

I dont claim to be a motoring expert, but a 2.8i to me did handle pretty well. Dont knwo what difference the LSD made as mine had one, never drove one without...

They tended to spin up an inside rear wheel without - the 2.8 had stiffer ARBs than the 3.0S.

I'll dig out all the press reviews of the time a bit later on and we can see how they were perceived by people that drove all the competitors. They could be tail happy especially in the wet but that could be levelled at most BMWs of that time like the E28 and E21..... and Mantas....and Escorts.....and AE86s etc

Can't remember any that said the 2.8 handled crap though

[Alfanatic]

s m said:

No, I'm just telling you how the press at that time perceived them alongside their contemporaries.
8 seconds to 60 and 130mph is not fast to you now ( to some it would be acceptable even now ) but 30 years ago it was fast.

Your experience may differ from that of the mainstream press but I can tell you that no mag of the time thought the 2.8i was "crap handling".

No, but the handling was described at least once as "unsophisticated".

[s m]

Alfanatic said:

s m said:

No, I'm just telling you how the press at that time perceived them alongside their contemporaries.
8 seconds to 60 and 130mph is not fast to you now ( to some it would be acceptable even now ) but 30 years ago it was fast.

Your experience may differ from that of the mainstream press but I can tell you that no mag of the time thought the 2.8i was "crap handling".

No, but the handling was described at least once as "unsophisticated".

Certainly 'throttle adjustable' but unsophisticated could be applied to lots of cars of that era.
'Crap' to me means bottom of the pile.

I know you remember the twin test with the GTV and IIRC the Capri did OK against the Italian car

[s m]

swerni said:

:cough: I didn't actually mention the 2.8 when I said about crap handling,I didn't mention any variant.
I even had 185's on the back of mine and at the time I thought they were huge.
How things change

The OP did state 2.8i though iirc.

And I did take pains to mention the 2.8 when I replied to you.

SVE worked over the handling on the 2.8

[300bhp/ton]

Pedmeister said:

doogz said:

Pedmeister said:

Erm no actually, the Capri is NOT American. It was designed in Europe, to European specifications & tastes by European design engineers. Europe was the primary market for the Capri-not the US.

This guy seems to be correct, the Capri, as we're discussing here, i.e. not the Consul Capri, was designed by 'Ford of Europe GmbH' a subsidiary of the Ford Motor Company

The Capri was definitely designed in Europe. One of the design engineers was a guy called Claude Lobo, who was a young guy at the time. He still works in design and is immensely proud of his involvement in the design of the Capri. He keeps a large picture of a 2.8i Special in lacquer red hung on his office wall.

The US spec Mercury Capris had different engines. They never received the 3 litre Essex engines, they had 2.3 & 2.6 V6 carb fed engines, which offered pedestrian performance given the anti-smog kit on them.

The finest Mk1 Capri was the RS2600 Capri. It was a 2,600cc Cologne engine fitted with Kugelfischer fuel injection. It produced 150 Bhp- which was considerable poke in 1974. It was also Ford of Europe's first car fitted with fuel injection. 0-60 in 7.2 seconds and a top end of 126 mph- which was serious performance in the 1970's. They were not sold in the UK, although a handful have been brought over to the UK. I know a guy who owns one.

I have no issues with where the car was designed, but the fact remains that Ford Motor Company is the owner and they are American, even if a subsidiary in another country did the work. The bottom line is it's a FORD and all Ford's are American cars.

I mean many cars, such as man Triumph's were penned in Italy, does this then make them Italian cars rather than British?

The Honda Civic (one of the versions) was not only designed mostly by Rover but actually built by Rover in the Rover factory. Does this mean a Honda Civic isn't a Japanese car?

How about all those 'Japanese' cars which are built and designed in America are they not Japanese any longer?

[300bhp/ton]

Pedmeister said:

ia
The Capri was NOT an American car. It is irrelevant that FORD is essentially an American company. Ford of Europe effectively operate independantly of Ford USA. You are being pedantic and splitting hairs. It was conceived and designed ENTIRELY in Europe. If the Capri is 'American,' then no doubt you believe the RS2000, XR3i, RS1600i, Granada, Cortina, Sierra, Sierra Cosworths are, 'American?!' Ridiculous comment. ROFL

True ignorance.

[s m]

swerni said:

I know you did.

it's early and we are going off topic.

But seeing as we are off topic

Manta or Capri?

Hmm, tough one ( as I had a Manta for a few years ) - the GTE only had 2/3rds the poke of the Capri and tended to understeer more ime as standard - ( I think was slightly more nose-biased ) I modded my Manta quite a bit though after a couple of years and my friends' 2.8s were basically standard.
I remember Russell Bulgin went for the 2.8 over the Exclusive

[k-ink]

Clearly all Fords are OWNED by an American company. However I can see the point being made here. If the European division act completely independently, thus design and build their own models for sale only in their homeland, that carries more weight to me than who the shareholders may be. So I'd say the Capri was a European car.

Is Lotus British? The cars are designed and built in the UK. The owners are not from the UK and change monthly. But to me that is irrelevant. Same argument as the Ford situation.


ps

The civic was designed in the UK was it? Not just assembled on a line for tax breaks?

[Edmundo2]

TVR S Series. Should get a good one for £5k. Looks great, easy to work on, cheap parts, handles well, sounds fantastic, quick, classic insurance etc etc..

[Devil2575]

s m said:

swerni said:

I know you did.

it's early and we are going off topic.

But seeing as we are off topic

Manta or Capri?

Hmm, tough one ( as I had a Manta for a few years ) - the GTE only had 2/3rds the poke of the Capri and tended to understeer more ime as standard - ( I think was slightly more nose-biased ) I modded my Manta quite a bit though after a couple of years and my friends' 2.8s were basically standard.
I remember Russell Bulgin went for the 2.8 over the Exclusive

I still hanker after a Manta GTE coupe.

They just look so right IMHO.

[300bhp/ton]

k-ink said:

Clearly all Fords are OWNED by an American company. However I can see the point being made here. If the European division act completely independently, thus design and build their own models for sale only in their homeland, that carries more weight to me than who the shareholders may be. So I'd say the Capri was a European car.

But the cars where sold all over the World including the N American market, ok not all of them, but far more of them than most people realise.

My biggest gripe is the inconsistency employed in these topics. As it usually follows someone will claim and believe things are British, but then apply totally different rules to the same situation but different makes or markets.

For example is this a British car?




Or how about any of these:

k-ink said:

Is Lotus British? The cars are designed and built in the UK. The owners are not from the UK and change monthly. But to me that is irrelevant. Same argument as the Ford situation.

But it's not the same argument, how many different owners has Ford had and how often? And we are talking about a European subsidiary of Ford, not an entirely different company bought by a new parent.

Lotus is an oddball one, I guess most would like to think of them as British and they certainly have a strong British heritage and they certainly started out as British. Also is the entire company owned outside of the UK or only a majority?

k-ink said:

ps

The civic was designed in the UK was it? Not just assembled on a line for tax breaks?

Rover did much work during the Honda collaboration years, including building Discovery's and badging them as Honda's for the JDM.

[kambites]

I've never really understood why the "nationality" of a car is so important to people, anyway. In my experience the market it was designed for is much more important than where it was designed/build/funded/whatever.

[300bhp/ton]

kambites said:

I've never really understood why the "nationality" of a car is so important to people, anyway. In my experience the market it was designed for is much more important than where it was designed/build/funded/whatever.

Overall I'm not really fussed, although I do have a sense of National Pride and like to call things British when it's right to do so.

But it does seem that most Brits are ignorant to the fact Ford is not British, indeed the Capri was being called British, then down graded to European even in the course of this thread. And as I say, when the shoe is on the other foot people don't like it and still call stuff Japanses even if it meets the exact same criteria as Ford has, yet Ford somehow becomes British. There is no consistency.

[LuS1fer]

As far as I'm concerned, if the car company has a British or European subsidiary and makes its own cars then it assumes the national identity of the home country, irrespective of ownership.

Vauxhall had a unique British range until the 70s when they merged into sharing Opel products but though many Opels got marketed as Saturns, they were ostensibly European cars with an American badge, not the other way round - probably why they failed.

When I was growing up, everyone considered Ford and Vauxhall as British or German despite their American parentage. In an era when you had to be "backing Britain", Fords were still the best sellers against BMC/BLMC/BL products.

The fact is that today most cars are global with the Americans still holding out to a large degree but slowly being brought into line with world strategies.

[Alfanatic]

s m said:

Alfanatic said:

s m said:

No, I'm just telling you how the press at that time perceived them alongside their contemporaries.
8 seconds to 60 and 130mph is not fast to you now ( to some it would be acceptable even now ) but 30 years ago it was fast.

Your experience may differ from that of the mainstream press but I can tell you that no mag of the time thought the 2.8i was "crap handling".

No, but the handling was described at least once as "unsophisticated".

Certainly 'throttle adjustable' but unsophisticated could be applied to lots of cars of that era.
'Crap' to me means bottom of the pile.

I know you remember the twin test with the GTV and IIRC the Capri did OK against the Italian car

I remember the runout one where they compared a 2.8 limited edition of some sorts to a GTV6, both near the end of their production lives. That's where I got the unsophisticated from. It didn't equate to "not fun" or "crap", but rather meaning that the GTV felt more like a sophisticated, built for purpose sportscar in its balance, responses, capabilities and so on. The Capri's more humble origins and specification were obvious when the driver started leaning on it. They didn't conclude that this made the Capri less likeable, just a different kind of experience. A bit more muscle car rather than Alps mountain pass weapon.

So no, definitely not meant as "bottom of the pile", though I can imagine it could be dismissed as "crap handling" by someone looking for a surgical scalpel to dissect a b-road as opposed to someone looking for a drift king capable of lapping roundabouts comfortably on full opposite lock, something the short wheelbase and LSD free GTV6 is a bit rubbish at.

The Capri is definitely the better tool for exploring the world of opposite lock.

[Dave200]

yonex said:

doogz said:

100% American. Except the car was designed by Ford of Europe. Based in Germany somewhere.

300 in 'another ruined thread' shocker.

No! Heresy!!! How dare you suggest that the majority of 300's 20k posts (in under 4 years) have been of the style "I know better, this is why the American car/the car that I own is the best choice. My opinion is final, and anyone disagreeing will be subjected to a series of random statistics and strawman arguments, with the intention of boring them to death."

How very dare you...

[Bacon Is Proof]

300bhp/ton said:

I have no issues with where the car was designed, but the fact remains that Ford Motor Company is the owner and they are American, even if a subsidiary in another country did the work. The bottom line is it's a FORD and all Ford's are American cars.

But the USA is just a subsidiary of the British Empire, so where does that leave you?

IN YOUR FACE, HILLBILLY!!!
STICK THAT IN YOUR "HEADER" AND SMOKE IT!!!

All those roundabouts have dizzied your mind.

[Dusty964]

Dont take the P1ss- his smart is quicker than a TVR