Capri or Corvette?
Discussion
In a couple of year's time when I get my first few paycheques I will have around 5K to get a car that I will want for everyday driving in all weathers. I want it to be a multi-cylinder (ie. >4) FR coupe with controllable tail happiness but dont want anything dull and modern - it has to be a modern classic and easy to do my own work and servicing on. It also has to make a good noise! I understand insurance will be somewhat more than I currently pay for a 30yr old Land Rover but it still has to be affordable for a 22/23 yr old graduate salary
For 5k I could have either an ok Capri 2.8 V6 (British, more economical, right hand drive, easy to get parts for but very rust prone) or an early C4 corvette (More stylish, fab 80s LCD dash, v8 that sounds like Thor gargling hammers, properly head turning and much quicker than a Capri, with a rot free plastic body).
Thoughts either way?
For 5k I could have either an ok Capri 2.8 V6 (British, more economical, right hand drive, easy to get parts for but very rust prone) or an early C4 corvette (More stylish, fab 80s LCD dash, v8 that sounds like Thor gargling hammers, properly head turning and much quicker than a Capri, with a rot free plastic body).
Thoughts either way?
mat777 said:
In a couple of year's time when I get my first few paycheques I will have around 5K to get a car that I will want for everyday driving in all weathers. I want it to be a multi-cylinder (ie. >4) FR coupe with controllable tail happiness but dont want anything dull and modern - it has to be a modern classic and easy to do my own work and servicing on. It also has to make a good noise! I understand insurance will be somewhat more than I currently pay for a 30yr old Land Rover but it still has to be affordable for a 22/23 yr old graduate salary
For 5k I could have either an ok Capri 2.8 V6 (British, more economical, right hand drive, easy to get parts for but very rust prone) or an early C4 corvette (More stylish, fab 80s LCD dash, v8 that sounds like Thor gargling hammers, properly head turning and much quicker than a Capri, with a rot free plastic body).
Thoughts either way?
I would get the corvette if it were me, but if you are going to get a 5k crapi, try and stretch the budget and get a 3 litre rather than a 2.8, its a better engine in a couple of ways, albeit more old skool.For 5k I could have either an ok Capri 2.8 V6 (British, more economical, right hand drive, easy to get parts for but very rust prone) or an early C4 corvette (More stylish, fab 80s LCD dash, v8 that sounds like Thor gargling hammers, properly head turning and much quicker than a Capri, with a rot free plastic body).
Thoughts either way?
Unless your going to tune an 80s yank tank, most are not that fast due to the emissions regulations of the day.
If you are serious about a capri, I hope this is of some help :
Most parts for the capri will be cheap, some stuff is interchangeable between the 2.8i and lesser models, very few parts are expensive. Engines and gearboxes are generally pretty strong, although the later 5 speed gearbox can fail. There are plenty of second hand boxes around for sensible money if this does happen.
Watch out for the rear axle, if its a LSD unit (fitted as standard to 'injection special' models and well worth having) it will cost a lot to replace if it is knackered as the escort rally boys have had all the spare ones by now.
Anything mechanical is pretty easy to sort out and parts are readily available. The K Jet mechanical injection is the same as on some Merc's bmw's etc and is generally reliable. If it goes wrong you are best off going to a specialist as they are quite complex to set up properly (imho at least having tried !) If the car is running well then there is usually no need to fiddle with it.
Body panels can be very expensive if you want original ford wings for instance, these are as much as £400 each, IF you can find one. Pattern panels are often crap quality to be blunt. some panels such as front slam panel / valance are not obtainable new at all. Buy the best car bodywork wise you can afford. at 5k you should have no problem finding a straight original car without any serious rust issues.
Look out for rust, capris are not the worst cars of their era for rust, but they are still bad ! aside from cosmetic rust which can occur pretty much everywhere, you need to look for structural rust which can be very expensive to sort if you dont want to weld it yourself.
Examine the following areas carefully :
- A posts, especially near the door hinges, and above the top hinge.
- Front suspension strut tops, V6 models have an extra plate welded over the top of the inner wing for strength, and also an reinforcement underneath the inner wing. unfortunately these are both a moisture trap. any sign of rust on the top of the plate as seen in the engine bay will be hiding a LOT more underneath
- Rear spring hangers (the front part behind the rear sill) these can be a bit tricky to repair this section if it is rotten.
- The front of the sills, ford in their infinite wisdom put the drainage channels from the sunroof into the front of the sill. also some cars were not fitted with sill protectors inside the arch, so the front of sill area collects road dirt and holds moisture. there is several layers of metal in this area and it holds moisture and again is tricky to fix if rusty.
I personally think it is best to keep a 2.8i pretty original, they are still a decent drivers car in standard form. The brakes are weak, but good quality pads can help a bit with this. I would however swap the standard 13" wheels to 15's, use a 195 / 50 profile tyre to keep the overall diameter the same. you dont want to make the gearing any taller as it is already very long on a 2.8i.
going to bigger wheels / lower profile tyres will give you slightly sharper handling, and there is a much better choice of tyres in this size. When fitted with decent quality modern rubber it will handle just fine, ignore people who say its a handful in the wet, this is nonsense quite frankly. drive sensibly and you will have no issues.
the 2.8i engine is not very tuneable, due to the K jet and also because of the crap 2 port heads in 2.8 v6. You could get a turbo technics conversion for these when new, which was a dealer fit option at the time, which by all accounts is a good match for the engine, though I havent driven one. your budget at 5k might stretch to a nice capri with one of these conversions if you can find one.
I hope this helps, I enjoyed owning my 2.8i for a couple of years as a daily driver, aside from mpg of about 22-25 it was no problem, and good fun to boot
Most parts for the capri will be cheap, some stuff is interchangeable between the 2.8i and lesser models, very few parts are expensive. Engines and gearboxes are generally pretty strong, although the later 5 speed gearbox can fail. There are plenty of second hand boxes around for sensible money if this does happen.
Watch out for the rear axle, if its a LSD unit (fitted as standard to 'injection special' models and well worth having) it will cost a lot to replace if it is knackered as the escort rally boys have had all the spare ones by now.
Anything mechanical is pretty easy to sort out and parts are readily available. The K Jet mechanical injection is the same as on some Merc's bmw's etc and is generally reliable. If it goes wrong you are best off going to a specialist as they are quite complex to set up properly (imho at least having tried !) If the car is running well then there is usually no need to fiddle with it.
Body panels can be very expensive if you want original ford wings for instance, these are as much as £400 each, IF you can find one. Pattern panels are often crap quality to be blunt. some panels such as front slam panel / valance are not obtainable new at all. Buy the best car bodywork wise you can afford. at 5k you should have no problem finding a straight original car without any serious rust issues.
Look out for rust, capris are not the worst cars of their era for rust, but they are still bad ! aside from cosmetic rust which can occur pretty much everywhere, you need to look for structural rust which can be very expensive to sort if you dont want to weld it yourself.
Examine the following areas carefully :
- A posts, especially near the door hinges, and above the top hinge.
- Front suspension strut tops, V6 models have an extra plate welded over the top of the inner wing for strength, and also an reinforcement underneath the inner wing. unfortunately these are both a moisture trap. any sign of rust on the top of the plate as seen in the engine bay will be hiding a LOT more underneath
- Rear spring hangers (the front part behind the rear sill) these can be a bit tricky to repair this section if it is rotten.
- The front of the sills, ford in their infinite wisdom put the drainage channels from the sunroof into the front of the sill. also some cars were not fitted with sill protectors inside the arch, so the front of sill area collects road dirt and holds moisture. there is several layers of metal in this area and it holds moisture and again is tricky to fix if rusty.
I personally think it is best to keep a 2.8i pretty original, they are still a decent drivers car in standard form. The brakes are weak, but good quality pads can help a bit with this. I would however swap the standard 13" wheels to 15's, use a 195 / 50 profile tyre to keep the overall diameter the same. you dont want to make the gearing any taller as it is already very long on a 2.8i.
going to bigger wheels / lower profile tyres will give you slightly sharper handling, and there is a much better choice of tyres in this size. When fitted with decent quality modern rubber it will handle just fine, ignore people who say its a handful in the wet, this is nonsense quite frankly. drive sensibly and you will have no issues.
the 2.8i engine is not very tuneable, due to the K jet and also because of the crap 2 port heads in 2.8 v6. You could get a turbo technics conversion for these when new, which was a dealer fit option at the time, which by all accounts is a good match for the engine, though I havent driven one. your budget at 5k might stretch to a nice capri with one of these conversions if you can find one.
I hope this helps, I enjoyed owning my 2.8i for a couple of years as a daily driver, aside from mpg of about 22-25 it was no problem, and good fun to boot
mat777 said:
In a couple of year's time when I get my first few paycheques I will have around 5K to get a car that I will want for everyday driving in all weathers. I want it to be a multi-cylinder (ie. >4) FR coupe with controllable tail happiness but dont want anything dull and modern - it has to be a modern classic and easy to do my own work and servicing on. It also has to make a good noise! I understand insurance will be somewhat more than I currently pay for a 30yr old Land Rover but it still has to be affordable for a 22/23 yr old graduate salary
For 5k I could have either an ok Capri 2.8 V6 (British, more economical, right hand drive, easy to get parts for but very rust prone) or an early C4 corvette (More stylish, fab 80s LCD dash, v8 that sounds like Thor gargling hammers, properly head turning and much quicker than a Capri, with a rot free plastic body).
Thoughts either way?
erm a couple of years time???? For 5k I could have either an ok Capri 2.8 V6 (British, more economical, right hand drive, easy to get parts for but very rust prone) or an early C4 corvette (More stylish, fab 80s LCD dash, v8 that sounds like Thor gargling hammers, properly head turning and much quicker than a Capri, with a rot free plastic body).
Thoughts either way?
Also you might want to check the badge out on the front of the Capri... it is not I repeat NOT f
king British 
it's American!Personally I love both of these. But I think they are actually rather different vehicles. The Capri is a 70's car at best and really more of a 60's platform. It's grunty, looks good and will have a following. I like them. And in their day they where ok as fast'ish vehicles, but hugely outclassed in this day and age. Buy one for it being a Capri and you'll love it though.
The Vette, well ok it's old too. But it was completely new in the early/mid 80's. And it built and designed in a totally different manner to the Capri. In fact modern Corvettes follow a very similar construction method as the C4 still.
This means the C4 is a far superior car in every respect.
I do really like the Capri, but when it comes down to it, the only reason you'd buy one over a Corvette is because you really want it. It's a far inferior car no matter how you slice it.
OllieC said:
I would get the corvette if it were me, but if you are going to get a 5k crapi, try and stretch the budget and get a 3 litre rather than a 2.8, its a better engine in a couple of ways, albeit more old skool.
Unless your going to tune an 80s yank tank, most are not that fast due to the emissions regulations of the day.
3.0 better than the 2.8? Unless your going to tune an 80s yank tank, most are not that fast due to the emissions regulations of the day.
The C4 Vette was pretty quick, ok very early models had 205hp or so, but we're still talking 7'sh sec to 60mph at a time when most fast British cars where more like 10+ secs. Power rose to 250hp and 6.5 sec 0-60mph and 140mph+ fairly soon after. The LT1's had 300hp and the LT4's 330hp. All are easily tunable.
5lab said:
350z will be that money in 2 years time, and much much better than either of those cars
Yeah and it'll likely keep losing money while the other two remain stable or increase in value.Also that's rather missing the point, not to mention better is a pretty naff way of describing something. Better in what way?
300bhp/ton said:
OllieC said:
I would get the corvette if it were me, but if you are going to get a 5k crapi, try and stretch the budget and get a 3 litre rather than a 2.8, its a better engine in a couple of ways, albeit more old skool.
Unless your going to tune an 80s yank tank, most are not that fast due to the emissions regulations of the day.
3.0 better than the 2.8? Unless your going to tune an 80s yank tank, most are not that fast due to the emissions regulations of the day.
The C4 Vette was pretty quick, ok very early models had 205hp or so, but we're still talking 7'sh sec to 60mph at a time when most fast British cars where more like 10+ secs. Power rose to 250hp and 6.5 sec 0-60mph and 140mph+ fairly soon after. The LT1's had 300hp and the LT4's 330hp. All are easily tunable.
having spent ages trying to resolve issues with the K jet system on my old 2.8 capri I would prefer simpler carbs ! that said K jet is usually reliable as long as its set up right.
I didnt realise the corvettes had that much HP, perhaps I was thinking of the 70's models ? certainly 6.5 - 60 would be quick enough for me I think
are they fairly light (relatively !) ?
300bhp/ton said:
3.0 better than the 2.8?
The C4 Vette was pretty quick, ok very early models had 205hp or so, but we're still talking 7'sh sec to 60mph at a time when most fast British cars where more like 10+ secs. Power rose to 250hp and 6.5 sec 0-60mph and 140mph+ fairly soon after. The LT1's had 300hp and the LT4's 330hp. All are easily tunable.
The L98's were quicker than that. I had a 1989 which was 245hp and 345 lbs/ft.The C4 Vette was pretty quick, ok very early models had 205hp or so, but we're still talking 7'sh sec to 60mph at a time when most fast British cars where more like 10+ secs. Power rose to 250hp and 6.5 sec 0-60mph and 140mph+ fairly soon after. The LT1's had 300hp and the LT4's 330hp. All are easily tunable.
I took it to Avon Park and it ran a 14.01 @ 99.7mph. I also had a G-Tech meter on board that was within 0.1 sec of the Avon park timing gear. The G-Tech gave the 0-60 as 5.24 secs.
The car was standard except for the exhaust (stock manifolds) and a K&N filter.
It was 9 years old when I bought it in 1998 and I kept it for 6 years putting 60,000 miles on it.
It never failed to start and the only non service item I replaced was a brake Servo.
OllieC said:
people might be inclined to disagree but I would prefer the 3 litre as it is more tunable, and generally much simpler than the 2.8 with mechanical fuel injection. The 2.8 is slightly more powerful as standard and does better MPG of course.
having spent ages trying to resolve issues with the K jet system on my old 2.8 capri I would prefer simpler carbs ! that said K jet is usually reliable as long as its set up right.
tbh honest I don't know a huge amount about the 3.0 Essex, only that the 2.8 is smaller and lighter and makes more power. Hence Ford's reason to ditch the Essex.having spent ages trying to resolve issues with the K jet system on my old 2.8 capri I would prefer simpler carbs ! that said K jet is usually reliable as long as its set up right.
Interestingly the Cologne was still used until very recently in 4.0 guise finding a home in the s197 Mustang V6 and even the Discovery 3 making 240hp. There are also a good number of turbo and supercharger kits available too.
As for the EFI, well an old knackered system can be problematic, but so can old carbs. Converting to a modern system will transform either such as using something like Megasquirt. Smoother, more power, better running and better on fuel.
OllieC said:
I didnt realise the corvettes had that much HP, perhaps I was thinking of the 70's models ? certainly 6.5 - 60 would be quick enough for me I think
are they fairly light (relatively !) ?
Vettes have always been pretty fast, although there was a massive HP decline in the mid and late 70's running through to around 82/83's. Although even in these dark days these cars where still powerful and faster than most comparable cars from Britain, Europe and Japan.are they fairly light (relatively !) ?
The C3 was quite heavy, but then it was a big car and maybe more GT inspired. The C4 was fairly lightweight from the off. Evidently not as light as a TVR, but then a TVR wasn't Federally type approved or mass produced.
Speed wise, I think the very first year of C4 production used the last C3 spec motors before the HP was upped. Carfolio lists a 1985 Vette at 1488kg and 230hp with 6.0 sec 0-60mph. In 1987 we're talking 245hp (and a whole head of torque) and 14.60 sec 1/4 miles.
Meaning the slowest C4 is an easy match for a Focus ST at least and potentially quite a bit faster.
A complete waste of a thread, but it does give us some classic quotes-
The Vette, well ok it's old too. But it was completely new in the early/mid 80's. And it built and designed in a totally different manner to the Capri. In fact modern Corvettes follow a very similar construction method as the C4 still.
This means the C4 is a far superior car in every respect.
......and there is the gospel according to st 300
The Vette, well ok it's old too. But it was completely new in the early/mid 80's. And it built and designed in a totally different manner to the Capri. In fact modern Corvettes follow a very similar construction method as the C4 still.
This means the C4 is a far superior car in every respect.
......and there is the gospel according to st 300
Dusty964 said:
A complete waste of a thread, but it does give us some classic quotes-
The Vette, well ok it's old too. But it was completely new in the early/mid 80's. And it built and designed in a totally different manner to the Capri. In fact modern Corvettes follow a very similar construction method as the C4 still.
This means the C4 is a far superior car in every respect.
......and there is the gospel according to st 300
eh? so what's your problem?The Vette, well ok it's old too. But it was completely new in the early/mid 80's. And it built and designed in a totally different manner to the Capri. In fact modern Corvettes follow a very similar construction method as the C4 still.
This means the C4 is a far superior car in every respect.
......and there is the gospel according to st 300
Thanks for the sensible replies people. I'd just like to point out that I'm not trolling, I just like planning things in advance and daydreaming various scenarios in my head!
To answer one of the first questions, I would p[refer a Corvette but I realise that in some aspects a Capri might be considered a more sensible option, hence why I couldnt choose. I'd really love a Bandit trans am but they are out of my budget, and was once advised a Capri would be infinitely better than a T/A. but its not american though, and a Corvette is!
To answer one of the first questions, I would p[refer a Corvette but I realise that in some aspects a Capri might be considered a more sensible option, hence why I couldnt choose. I'd really love a Bandit trans am but they are out of my budget, and was once advised a Capri would be infinitely better than a T/A. but its not american though, and a Corvette is!
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