Capri or Corvette?

[300bhp/ton]

ukzz4iroc said:

Alfanatic said:

American cars didn't get their lousy handling reputation from top gear. They've had it a lot longer than that, in fact ever since they really did make lots of lousy handling cars.

I think the issue here is stereotypes and generalisation. The majority of mainstream, lifeless general cars did handle like barges. They were designed to be so. Doesn't mean all of them didn't. In the same way as not all Alfa's are rust buckets

Totally. And I think it's easy to forget just how badly many British/Euro and Jap cars of the past handled too.

Then there's the whole aftermarket tuning scene in America which was present even in the 60's and 70's, where there was an expectation that people would alter production cars, to in standard trim they were rarely setup for optimum handling, but more a middle ground.

[RV8]

Pedmeister said:

If he can find a decent Brooklands! There are less than 400 on the road according to information provided by the DVLA to 'Capri Club International.' In addition to their rarity, 280 Capris command premium prices. You will not get anything decent for less than £6,500. EG There is a 280 on PH classified adverts for close on £17K. An excellent 2.8i can fetch £4-7k. My car has an agreed valuation of £10k- and frankly, given it's condition and 80's supercar performance, that is a conservative estimate. 2.8i Capris are no longer 'cheap' cars. Personally, I would not attempt to run one as a daily driver- too expensive on motion lotion, and wear & tear is major factor to consider. Parts are quite expensive, especially trim- bumpers, bumper end caps etc. Ford are utterly useless & provide ZERO spares support. Ownership involves trawling eBay and specialist Capri supply companies-which can be both tedious & frustrating at times. You need a deep wallet ..... They are cars to be relished on high days & holidays, not trudging to work & back on the UK's grid locked, wet, salt encrusted roads- that's what dreary, characterless modern cars are for! I will admit to a degree of inverted snobbery associated with owning a mint 28 year old Capri. My daily drive is a BWM 3 series tourer- utterly anomymous and effient. The Capri on the other hand, draws a large amount of interest, especially at petrol stations. I remember observing the owner of a shiny new BMW M3 snatching covert glances at my car on a petrol forecourt. Nobody showed ANY interest in his contemporary £40k+ BMW, but they certainly showed plenty of interest in my Capri which cost me a fraction of that! It is a tremendously enjoyable car to drive, and very gratifying to own. It is a car that it worth far more than the sum of it's parts.

Yhea, I did say he'd have to be lucky but I've seen the odd one that wants sorting for his budget - all about what you want to spend at the end of the day, going off your prices you could spend £5k on a rot box and still walk away with a profit when it's done.

Yes, the prices have risen sharply, just in the last 7 or 8 years. I remember when you could go out and buy a 2.8 with a weeks wages in auto-trader, xr3's were going for todays equivalent of weigh in money - not so likely now. But aside from that bo!!ocks to investing in gold, I should have bought a cheap barn and filled it with as many 2 door Mk1 escorts as I could lay my hands on, they are fetching daft money.

[RV8]

Pedmeister said:

Here's a nice Mk1 Capri for you! This has been owned from new in 1972 by a mate of mine.

Ok so I said no vinyl roof but I didn't know what I was talking about... The combination of black vinyl and the daytona yellow is very nice, I see it has the duck tail too. So, it's tax free, fairly original and has a good traceable history which makes it pretty rare so I guess he'll want a considerable amount?

[LuS1fer]

RV8 said:

I should have bought a cheap barn and filled it with as many 2 door Mk1 escorts as I could lay my hands on, they are fetching daft money.

Nobody ever could have predicted the prices now but IIRC anyway, a Mexico in the early 70s sold for the equivalent of £20000 in modern terms so(a) you'd have to be rich to strat with and (b) you'd still have to have waited over 35 years.

[RV8]

LuS1fer said:

RV8 said:

I should have bought a cheap barn and filled it with as many 2 door Mk1 escorts as I could lay my hands on, they are fetching daft money.

Nobody ever could have predicted the prices now but IIRC anyway, a Mexico in the early 70s sold for the equivalent of £20000 in modern terms so(a) you'd have to be rich to strat with and (b) you'd still have to have waited over 35 years.

True but it's the two doors that are fetching daft money in relative comparison, as you correctly point out the mexico was always desirable but over the last 15 years even lowly 1100 Mk1's (which were never desirable or expensive) are commanding good money now in 2 door form. Just like the mini 'cooper' recipe where you take basic 998 City fit some sportpack arches, stripes, minilights and four spots on the front and are able to flog it for the same sort of money genuine coopers once were going for, a bog standard escort mk1 with some rally arches bogged on, a roll cage and mexico stripes will sell for daft money. Everyone wants the real deal but most cannot afford it.
Perhaps the biggest way to extract as much money as possible from an aging but solid 2 door with no rally credentials - find a decent cosworth engine and whack that in there and do it well yourself and walk away with £10k.

[J4CKO]

I loved the Capri, had three of them but they are getting collectible and expensive, for the same money you can get a lovely 944 which is, as a car better than the Capri, the base model had 160 hp so more powerful than the top Capri (save the Tickford) and at the time was way more expensive, a totally different class of car but now they go for similar money if not less. Depends whether you want a Capri, it isnt always a rational want, you just do, I love them but I wouldnt want to subject a nice one to daily use now.

I agree on how fast they feel even with modest power though, 204 bhp might not seem like much, I had a Fiat Coupe Turbo when I went in a Tickford and it might have been due to the test run being through Trafford park but by god that car felt so fast, vivid acceleration, I was very very impressed.

My Favourites are the MK1's, the prettiest version, the Mk2 was a bit neither here nor there, the MK3 a bit more butch, we had a MK1 1600 GT-XLR (89 BHP) and that felt fairly pokey but the ordinary 73 bhp LS's and Lazer's are flat as a fart, 1.6 S versions were about 90 bhp and quite a bit better but still no ball of fire. They did 1.3 versions, the MK1 range was complex with all the trim levels, X, L and R packs, 1.3,1.3 GT, 1.6 ,1.6 GT etc.


Had a Manta 2.0 GTE that I bought when I missed out on a 2.8i, nice enough car but a poor relation to a 2.8i, more on a par with a 2.0 S/Lazer Capri, the 2.0 Capri could be fun with a few tweaks, old school tuning with cams, carbs, exhausts, heads etc and a decent Pinto engined Capri could be not far a standard 2.8/3.0 in terms of pace, and fuel consumption as well !

[k-ink]

Just re-posting Ped's photo a little larger...

[s m]

k-ink said:

Just re-posting Ped's photo a little larger...

It was legible when I posted it ( top of pg 6 )

Here's a bit of Advert nostalgia from '84

[s m]

LuS1fer said:

Nobody ever could have predicted the prices now but IIRC anyway, a Mexico in the early 70s sold for the equivalent of £20000 in modern terms so(a) you'd have to be rich to strat with and (b) you'd still have to have waited over 35 years.

June 71 a Mexico was selling for £1150 and 4 shillings

[LuS1fer]

RV8 said:

True but it's the two doors that are fetching daft money in relative comparison, as you correctly point out the mexico was always desirable but over the last 15 years even lowly 1100 Mk1's (which were never desirable or expensive) are commanding good money now in 2 door form. Just like the mini 'cooper' recipe where you take basic 998 City fit some sportpack arches, stripes, minilights and four spots on the front and are able to flog it for the same sort of money genuine coopers once were going for, a bog standard escort mk1 with some rally arches bogged on, a roll cage and mexico stripes will sell for daft money. Everyone wants the real deal but most cannot afford it.
Perhaps the biggest way to extract as much money as possible from an aging but solid 2 door with no rally credentials - find a decent cosworth engine and whack that in there and do it well yourself and walk away with £10k.

From memory, I seem to recall that the Ford Escort Mk II Popular (2 doors were deemed the cheapo as well as sporty versions then of course) had a headline on the road price of either £1199 0r £1299 and that wasn't that long after my parents paid £6300 for a 3 bed semi which would probably be worth around £200k now.

[SuperHangOn]

Capri's are crap but it doesn't really matter. Its all about peering over that power bulge through the letter box windscreen, giving that V6 a good prod and feeling the back end start to slide. They are so much bloody fun

If you had any sense you buy an E36 328i for a quarter of the price but that would be oh so predictable and boring!

[J4CKO]

s m said:

It was legible when I posted it ( top of pg 6 )

Here's a bit of Advert nostalgia from '84

I used that very photo as a basis for an art project at school, the Injection was my object of desire, until the 3 door Cosworth arrived in 86 that is.

[s m]

SuperHangOn said:

Capri's are crap but it doesn't really matter. Its all about peering over that power bulge through the letter box windscreen, giving that V6 a good prod and feeling the back end start to slide. They are so much bloody fun

If you had any sense you buy an E36 328i for a quarter of the price but that would be oh so predictable and boring!

I know what you mean - they do sound nice burbling away and easy to learn about rwd dynamics even though they only have 3/4 of the poke of the new BRZ/GT86 you can adjust the line on the throttle

[s m]

s m said:

Anyone remember historic racer, Willie Green, talking to Autocar about why he used an old Capri 2.8 ( albeit with the Cosworth 24v V6 ) as a fun car for the 'Ring and other tracks?

This wasn't the article I was thinking of but I think it was Autocar's first meeting with Willie and his 2.8i Capri ( have arrowed the start of the relevant bit )

[s m]

LuS1fer said:

RV8 said:

True but it's the two doors that are fetching daft money in relative comparison, as you correctly point out the mexico was always desirable but over the last 15 years even lowly 1100 Mk1's (which were never desirable or expensive) are commanding good money now in 2 door form. Just like the mini 'cooper' recipe where you take basic 998 City fit some sportpack arches, stripes, minilights and four spots on the front and are able to flog it for the same sort of money genuine coopers once were going for, a bog standard escort mk1 with some rally arches bogged on, a roll cage and mexico stripes will sell for daft money. Everyone wants the real deal but most cannot afford it.
Perhaps the biggest way to extract as much money as possible from an aging but solid 2 door with no rally credentials - find a decent cosworth engine and whack that in there and do it well yourself and walk away with £10k.

From memory, I seem to recall that the Ford Escort Mk II Popular (2 doors were deemed the cheapo as well as sporty versions then of course) had a headline on the road price of either £1199 0r £1299 and that wasn't that long after my parents paid £6300 for a 3 bed semi which would probably be worth around £200k now.

Mid 70s ( '75 ) the RS1800 was being sold at £2990

[s m]

T0nup said:

Have to be the Capri for me. But go for the 3.0 Essex rather than the 2.8 Cologne engine. (Lots of inherant plenum chamber and injection issues are always moaned about in the club mags)

Wouldn't worry about the LSD, a little tail end respect will pay dividends, as will spending a little on stiffening up the car with polybushes and a rear anxle X frame and stiffer springs.

One of the biggest mistakes I ever made was selling my 1980 Capri Ghia.

Hope this helps, but in a couple of years time, you maybe thinking very differently about what appeals to you.

Of course, back years ago, you could take you new or second-hand Capri back to the dealer and buy various stages of upgrades for it.
X-pack arches, triple carbs for a 3 litre, LSD, uprated suspension, wider wheels, higher capacity rad etc

Here's an old article where LJK Setright tries a proper 'Essex motor'!

[mat777]

yonex said:

LuS1fer said:

Au contraire. I had no problems in 3 years of ownership. I doubt the same could be said of the Essex Express if you want to deal in stereotypes.

'Essex Express' lol

That Vette would be better in any other colour than 'look at me red'. The C5 carries it off but not the C4 IMO.

edit.... and why are we comparing something that is £10K against what would probably be £4000 of Capri?

Edited by yonex on Thursday 19th April 16:29

..Because you can have a decent C4 for a lot less than 10k (and it even sort of looks OK in red)...

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3486063.htm - privately sold ones are even less, and its even less again for the ugly bloated (not so good in red) post facelift ZR1-lookalike ones as pictured earlier


As for the image stereotypes.. if it really boils down to it then anyone who has seen the pic in my profile would probably agree that I'd rather be sterotyped as a wannabe cowboy (even though I am waaaaay too intelligent to be a redneck and I am also an athiest) than an Essex Gary! I must say though that the 2.8i in that advert looks properly stunning!

I also gather that the Vette does handle kind of ok in the corners (in a skittish-in-the-wet RWD way), mainly because America's idea of a sports car is a car with absolutely no give in the suspension?

Edited by mat777 on Saturday 21st April 20:17

[s m]

swerni said:

The handling wasn't very good when I last drove one, but that was about 25 years ago.
Compared to modern cars the handling is crap, especially things like the far better looking 350z

- I remember EVO mag, picking the Capri 2.8i, along with the Mk1 MX5, E34 M5 and Toyota Supra as one of the best cars to learn oversteer in. They said the good thing about the rear axle was that you didn't get big camber changes in cornering ( or sliding )

[GroundEffect]

mat777 said:

In a couple of year's time when I get my first few paycheques I will have around 5K to get a car that I will want for everyday driving in all weathers. I want it to be a multi-cylinder (ie. >4) FR coupe with controllable tail happiness but dont want anything dull and modern - it has to be a modern classic and easy to do my own work and servicing on. It also has to make a good noise! I understand insurance will be somewhat more than I currently pay for a 30yr old Land Rover but it still has to be affordable for a 22/23 yr old graduate salary

For 5k I could have either an ok Capri 2.8 V6 (British, more economical, right hand drive, easy to get parts for but very rust prone) or an early C4 corvette (More stylish, fab 80s LCD dash, v8 that sounds like Thor gargling hammers, properly head turning and much quicker than a Capri, with a rot free plastic body).

Thoughts either way?

The Capri isn't British, it's European. Designed jointly between Dunton and Merckenich.

[Pedmeister]

swerni said:

Pedmeister said:

swerni said:

s m said:

swerni said:

And yet the capri has crap handling,

If it's the 2.8 he mentioned in the OP, rather contrary to your view, they were quite well praised in the press of the time for their predictable handling.

Have you bothered looking at my car history?

My first 2 cars were Carpi's
Although I haven't owned a 2.8 I've driven a quite a few.
The Capri has set the tone for most of my motoring history.


I love Capri's but some things are better looking back with rose tinted glasses

Evidently, you have never driven a 2.8i to make such a derogatory comment in relation to their handling/road holding ability. There is NO COMPARISON between the 2.8i and 'other' Capris- TOTALLY DIFFERENT DAMPER & SPRING RATINGS, THICKER FRONT AND REAR ANTI-ROLL BARS, LOWER RIDE HEIGHT, FATTER TYRES-TOTALLY DIFFERENT DRIVING EXPERIENCE. Get the picture?? ROFL

I get the picture.

You're a fanboy, you love your car, get over yourself.

The handling wasn't very good when I last drove one, but that was about 25 years ago.
Compared to modern cars the handling is crap, especially things like the far better looking 350z


Don't get so upset and defensive, it makes you look rather childish.

SM has made some salient points, I'm sure modern rubber had made a huge difference.

Thank you for your patronising reposte. You confuse contesting & challenging inaccurate comments with being upset- more fool you to jump to such a banal conclusion. Have a 'nice' day......