RE: SOTW: Saab 9000 Aero

[MrMoonyMan]

trig9k said:

Please tell me more!! did you buy this as an unfinished projet? , it was four years ago when this engine was fitted and its still not ready??
This was a fantastic looking car would be great to see it on track ,,any pics?

Didn't buy the car from him, just the engine. It's in a very scruffy 3 series touring. We've mated it to an Omega gearbox and got a new prop shaft made. Just waiting on a new loom for it and getting the oil lines and clutch sorted.

Should be quite the sleeper when it's done. There's a ( not very good ) project thread on UKS.

You'll have to have a go when it's done..

[tomoleeds]

thewheelman said:

I'm with you on that one, but i guess it's different strokes for different folks.

thats what i mean the 1996 saab is 16 years old,ok for a 2nd car to drive now and again,But my point is (for a 4 door car) you would spend a grand on a galvanised 2002/2003 vectra sri; mondeo or vauhall omega which are so more modern, the Omega 2002 on, is under valued and can be yours for £800. these were £25.k, saab is too old

[trig9k]

MrMoonyMan said:

trig9k said:

Please tell me more!! did you buy this as an unfinished projet? , it was four years ago when this engine was fitted and its still not ready??
This was a fantastic looking car would be great to see it on track ,,any pics?

Didn't buy the car from him, just the engine. It's in a very scruffy 3 series touring. We've mated it to an Omega gearbox and got a new prop shaft made. Just waiting on a new loom for it and getting the oil lines and clutch sorted.

Should be quite the sleeper when it's done. There's a ( not very good ) project thread on UKS.

You'll have to have a go when it's done..

Would love a ride when its done
I've had a look at your UKS tread , needs updating me thinks and I cant see the pics on there but other than that very good mate

[anonymous-user]

KM666 said:

However it is this line that sets off the loudest alarm bell of all, said of a de-cat "amazingly it actually passes emissions ... an extremely suspect individual.
]

I would say you have never owned an older proper sports car, as your would have never made this statement.

[kilauea]

tomoleeds said:

thats what i mean the 1996 saab is 16 years old,ok for a 2nd car to drive now and again,But my point is (for a 4 door car) you would spend a grand on a galvanised 2002/2003 vectra sri; mondeo or vauhall omega which are so more modern, the Omega 2002 on, is under valued and can be yours for £800. these were £25.k, saab is too old

My 9000 Aero cost £38k new. The above mentioned are just not the same class of car. An old 5 series or Benz then fair enough.

[stevoknevo]

Strawman said:

Also a poster on here ylee Coyote runs/ran a 500+ BHP version of this car with the Quaife box fitted, a quick check shows hasn't posted for a while though.

Ylee still has the 'Monster' There are quite a few 400+bhp 9Ks out there. This one made just over 500bhp on the rollers and most, if not all, of the work was done by the owner http://www.uksaabs.co.uk/UKS/viewtopic.php?f=35&am...

[stevoknevo]

KM666 said:

However it is this line that sets off the loudest alarm bell of all, said of a de-cat "amazingly it actually passes emissions ... an extremely suspect individual.

He bought the car like this yet he is "an extremely suspect individual". There was no requirement the last time it was MOT'd for it to have a cat, and it passed the emissions test. There is a requirement for it to have one when it is next due to be tested and he's supplying one with the car.

[dome]

My 9000 Aero had a decat and failed the MOT on emissions, I refitted the cat and it was fine. Tester never noticed it was missing but I imagine unless he was looking specifically for it he wouldn't.

[julianm]

Lovely cars & beautifully built - I do miss mine - replaced with a 9-5 Aero.
Worth dropping the sump & having a thorough clean up - I lost an engine as the oil pickup strainer was clogged up with crap from the previous owner having used some poor quality oil in it for an indeterminate no. of miles.

[NiceCupOfTea]

Thought that was just the B2x5?

[KM666]

stevoknevo said:

KM666 said:

However it is this line that sets off the loudest alarm bell of all, said of a de-cat "amazingly it actually passes emissions ... an extremely suspect individual.

He bought the car like this yet he is "an extremely suspect individual". There was no requirement the last time it was MOT'd for it to have a cat, and it passed the emissions test. There is a requirement for it to have one when it is next due to be tested and he's supplying one with the car.

I always knew it to be pre August 1992 registered cars that didnt require a catalyst for the MOT
"The check for a CAT only applies to petrol engined vehicles which qualify
for a full CAT test. There will be an update to the IM in Spring which will
clarify this."

The change this year for MOTs is a revision not the introduction of the requirement of a catalyst for the MOT.
The requirement is that it must pass the emissions test and that if it came fitted with a catalyst the CAT should be present and in good working order, the emissions test is the only documentation of the process of passing a decat car.
It is still dodgy if you manage to obtain an MOT with a decat, a quick look on UKsaabs suggests many will not pass without a catalyst despite the common view that they do. I know of plenty of people who will pass a car with a decat come MOT time (by making up the results of the emissions test, or using a previous cars results) But they wont admit to it if you get caught without and its found to be illegal, dont forget policemen are not MOT testers, and so wont know the full VOSA requirements, most will just assume its illegal, and if there is any fault found with your MOT your insurance is void.

Its not a risk worth taking on an unknown car. I'd have fitted the catalyst and given the decat pipe away with the car if I was selling. What I find suspicious is that the seller mentions it in the advert, in the same way drugs smugglers will carry a small amount of pot as a decoy, casually mentioning something slightly dodgy says to me there could be more hidden.

It isnt just the issue of decat legality it was a combination of the odd use of langauge regarding the audio, 2 year old photographs, a power claim not backed up with a rolling road printout AND the decat.

I do know that saabs are very clean as standard regarding emissions, theres always that old story about doing an emissions test on saabs in London/Birmingham and the exhaust gasses being cleaner than the ambiant air.

Edited by KM666 on Saturday 21st April 23:36

[MadDog1962]

carinaman said:

cybersimon said:

The Type 4 body was " a joint project between Peugeot, Fiat, Lancia and Saab. "

I thought it was Alfa Romeo, not Peugeot. Where is your anorak?

A shocking error from Riggers.

I guess the Pug 605 does look a little like the 164, both Pininfarina. Perhaps he was even thinking 405 instead of 164?

It I recall correctly, the platform was shared by the Saab 9000, Alfa 164, Lancia Thema and Fiat Chroma. Fellow anoraks will know that the only common body panels shared were the doors (which seem to have been common to all 4 cars). This platform sharing seemed successful in that all 4 vehicles looked sufficiently different to have their own character. I don't think they shared any engines.

I was going to say that at least it was a proper SAAB. However, since it was built on a shared platform to reduce costs, in a manner similar to the GM based SAABs, I'm not sure you could could even call it a proper SAAB either (although the styling is).

Not my cup of tea really. A Jag, BMW or Benz of the same vintage would probably be easier to live with and cheaper to repair.

[Hub]

I saw one very similar to the one in the ad (P Reg.) abandoned at the side of a local roundabout this morning with heavy front end damage.

[Mr_C]

I just picked up a Volvo S40 CD with 70k for £500. Lovely!

[LuS1fer]

P-Jay said:

MrGeoff said:

Castle Coch isn't it? I drove past it this very morning as well on my way up the A470.

Certainly is! I took my sneaky route from the childminder's to the M4 this morning that runs past the entrance to the carpark. Lovely place.

CASTELL Coch you bloody heathens....

[900T-R]

MadDog1962 said:

Not my cup of tea really. A Jag, BMW or Benz of the same vintage would probably be easier to live with and cheaper to repair.

A Jag of the same vintage would have a huge potential for bankrupting the owner. A Mercedes of the same vintage would be very rusty, and a BMW of the same vintage would have spent the past half decade at the least in council estates.

The thing is, you're judging the Saab as a barge - which it admittedly looks like, but weight (1,470 kg for the loaded Aero), wheelbase and mechanical layout are remarkably similar to today's 'full fat' hot hatches. It's a turbo nutter mobile wearing 'respectable' clothes. Unlike say, a Leon Cupra or a Focus ST you can buy one for a grand, and unlike when driving those, people won't immediately assume you're a shaven-headed boy racer. Unless you make a habit of overtaking at the wrong place and time you can make decent progress while falling under the radar. Aftermarket and community support for making them faster, however, is as good as for any turbo 'performance' car. Perfect.

[Wing Commander]

I have one of these, in the same colour as that one in the ad - Scarabe Green.

In all honesty, it has been a brilliant car. I bought it as a stop gap for a month or so whilst I repaired my XR2 for its MOT. Over 2 years on, I still have it as my main driver. It cost me £650 for the 2.3 LPT Anniversary model, which also has Aero 3 spoke wheels, interior, and various other bits.

I have let the car down lately, not the other way around. It now has a bit of a blowing exhaust and a few other niggles, but it still keeps giving! I took it on a PH run the other day and it performed admirably, keeping up with a lot more exotic metal.

As 900 has just alluded to, this car is basically a wolf in sheep's clothing. I am in the process of remapping the car, from about 190BHP to approx 260BHP, for the grand total of £60, courtesy of a friendly saab nut. The car is perfect for long distance drives (we regularly go from Norfolk to Devon) and it does it in sublime comfort.

Around town, I get 27MPG ish, on the motorway at semi respectable speeds, I am into the 30s, and on the PH run the other day I averaged 25MPG over 130 miles.

Very easy to work on too. In true over-engineered style, everything is bolt on, bolt off in the easiest sense. An example is the wheel bearings. They come already installed in the hub, Saab realising that most people can't be dealing with pressing bearings. Yes, the hub is £90 rather than £10 for the bearing, but it is about 3 nuts and bolts. No garage bills, 30 mins work on the drive.

As an engineer, it is ideal for me. I can keep it running myself (have done all the work myself), and is very well thought out, in a way only a Saab could be.

I was having genuine thoughts about breaking mine up and selling the parts which would be worth approx £2500. I would then replace it with something a bit more modern. Having read this, that plan is now on permanent hold. The 9000 shall remain, and shall also get a few tweaks to make her a bit more urgent.

[carinaman]

MadDog1962 said:

It I recall correctly, the platform was shared by the Saab 9000, Alfa 164, Lancia Thema and Fiat Chroma. Fellow anoraks will know that the only common body panels shared were the doors (which seem to have been common to all 4 cars). This platform sharing seemed successful in that all 4 vehicles looked sufficiently different to have their own character. I don't think they shared any engines.

It's Croma, no H.

The Croma, Thema and SAAB may share doors but the 164 doors look very different, with that crease/swage line running the length of the car.

Did they share engines? I'd imagine the Croma and Thema did, particularly with the 2.0 litre turbos. I don't know what diesel engines the Tipo Quattro cars shared in continental Europe.

[900T-R]

Even the doors aren't interchangeable between Fiat/Lanca and Saab (let alone Alfa).

Tipo 4 started with a 75% parts commonality goal, but as the project progressed they ended up with exactly none - mainly for 2 reasons:

During the course of the development in ther first half of the 1980s, Fiat Group decided to pull out from the US market altogether, while at the same time it was the single biggest market for Saab. As a result, Saab needed to 'futureproof' their car in terms of safety while the Italians weren't keen on the cost and weight disadvantages of doing so.

Being Scandinavian, Saab put a lot of emphasis on consistent behaviour on low-grip surfaces, preferring their own beam axle with four longitudinal links and a Panhard rod to the independent set up the Fiat brands wanted.

The CS models that started fot the '92MY - of which this Aero is an example, were structurally different from the earlier cars again. By this time, there wasn't much left of the Tipo 4 underneath anyway...

[ReedyAero]

aeropilot said:

You certainley don't need forged pistons for 350hp on a B234R engine as fitted in a 9000 Aero.
Stock bottom end is good for 450+hp.

You certainley need forged pistons for anything over 320hp with the later 9-5 B235 engines, not the 234 9000 engines though.

Looking back this was based on the 9-5 NOT 9K - My error!

But anyhow - still fast!