RE: SOTW: Saab 9000 Aero

[thewheelman]

TheKobra said:

Am I missing something? (I assume I am and that someone will be able to explain exactly what)

For over £1k you can buy a P reg Saab with 190k miles, short mot, no tax, abs/srs lights on (mot fail), decat exhaust/sub & amp (these are bad things in small hatchbacks but not in big saabs?) and a problem with the ignition barrel.

I like the idea of 270hp and I even have a soft spot for saabs but I paid about the same last month for my Mercedes E320 with 88k miles! So I cant see this as a bargain.

I'm with you on that one, but i guess it's different strokes for different folks.

[G4HKS]

Had many Saab's,

Here is my first new 2.3 9000 Carlsson, a 900GL, a 9000 2.3 Turbo (Abbott racing of course!)another 9000 2.3 Turbo and my latest steed at 1/2 price - 2ltr 9-5 new shape Turbo.

The guy I sold the Carlsson Turbo to also owned a 911 so he was pretty chuffed at the plate.

The cars are different, brilliantly made and have class and history. Fingers crossed they rise from the ashes in tact.

Edited by G4HKS on Friday 20th April 21:51

[anything fast]

ReedyAero said:

Zircon said:

45bhp gain from an ECU and an exhaust? Really?

The most I have managed to do on my cars with the same modifications (plus an induction kit) was about 20bhp........

Yep! T5 Ecu remap and forced induction... No problem..

The 9-5's map from 250hp standard to 300hp, but then you have to start swapping hardware...

250 bhp easy. any more than that and you really need a bigger intercooler and you are knocking 270 to 280 bhp no probs. Leave the standard one and on a really hot day it wont be much faster than a standard one.

[MrMoonyMan]

Had mine 3 years now.

Has been very reliable bar a few age related problems. The boot is massive, it seats 5 and is economical for the way it goes.

Makes 297hp/335lbft and was still pulling at 156 when I bottled it.

Three (soon to be four) of my friends now own one, they just seem to make so much sense.



Winter wheels;

[stevoknevo]

The previous owners thoughts from the sales thread on UKS:

said:

When i sold the car to Richard a few yrs ago, at that point i considered it to be one of the best 9000 Aero's in the country, in terms of its overall condition.
It really is a very very good one.
Its actually a Maptun Stage 1 ECU, with full JT 3" downpipe, no cat, and full Abbott Racing 2.5" stainless steel exhaust with 4" tailpipe. Modified APC valve with manual MBC pressure relief and a max boost of 1.4 BAR. De-restricted air box. Circa 285BHP. But if i do say so myself its a very refined 285BHP. Smooth, progressive, and hard.
The Maptun maps seem to be a bit more "gearbox friendly".

PS: The Sound system cost more than the current asking price !.

Tuning of the 9k's has moved on considerably in the last few years though, personally I'd get shot of the MBC and have a more up to date map installed. These things go like st of a shovel though

[carinaman]

Thanks for posting Sevenman, I was a lurker considering your 9000 when you'd decided you were going RWD.

[trig9k]

Best all round car I have ever owned!! , fast , comfy , roomy, cheap to run and easy to mod,,cant go wrong

I paid £1500 for my black aero which took me to work everyday and the family on holliday then went around the track on the weekend
Sold my black aero for £650 that was a bargain especialy with the 300hp it was pushing




My Le mans Blue Aero was near mint and that sold for only £1000 , I wish I kept that one

[saracen02]

tomoleeds said:

i could think of a lot of better 4 doors so spend my grand on, 2003 vauhall omega, 2.2 cdx. 2002 vectra, even a mondeo 2003, is going look better than that saab, and are as good to drive.; saab 1/10,
cant be just me,they would not have gone bust if they had sold more.

You obviously have not owned a 9000 Aero! I used to buy new Mondeos and they are not a patch on the Saab 9000 Aero. The power, quality, reliability, value for money and general wow factor does not even come close to the Saab!I sold my new Mondeo to buy a 9000 Carlsson 2.0 many years ago. I liked it so much I purchased a 2.3 9000 Carlsson. I have now owned my 97 9000 Aero for 12 years and just can't part with it, as nothing compares for practicallity and bang for your buck.
It was a sad day when GM took over as the later 93/95's are rubbish compared. I have done 188k in mine, and it does not use a drop of oil. It currently has a Maptun stage 3 and is quick. I own a Porsche 928 GT 5.0L V8 330bhp too, and the Saab is not too far behind....it is after all a 5 seater with a huge boot. Please don't compare a Mondeo or a Vauxhall you mention to the 9000, they just don't compare.

[MrMoonyMan]

trig9k said:

..Sold my black aero for £650 that was a bargain especialy with the 300hp it was pushing



..

Guess where that cars engine is now..

[GraemeLambert]

Think the one advertised is worth around £750 in current condition frankly. Also would be getting rid of that MBC sharpish.

Recently bought a 9000 Aero myself.

Paid slightly over shed's budget at £1,150... but I reckon it was worth it.
1993 car (so one of the first) with only 80,000 miles on the clock, massive history file, gearbox rebuild at around 74k, six months tax and 11 months MOT on it. Oh, and crucially it had £5k+ spent on it at Abbott Racing when only a few months old, so benefits from a Quaife LSD, AR gas-flowed big valve head, full AR exhaust, AR wheels, Koni adjustables, AR intercooler, AR springs etc. If it blows up tomorrow, i'll make my money back with the parts.

The suspension needs changed (as it would at 19yrs old) but everything else about the car seems fine, and when it's boosting properly it flies - should be around the 280-300bhp mark. A dyno will no doubt confirm later in the year.

It's not as fun, nor as cool, as my old classic 900 Turbo, but still a fantastic all rounder.

G

[GraemeLambert]

In fact, I'd have this one instead to be honest.
Get another door for £50 and do some home T5 Suite tuning and you'd be there.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1997-SAAB-9000-AERO-SILV...

[JMF894]

Yes please, best seats you'll ever sit in.

Understeer a problem on these tho ( was on my 290bhp Anniversary model) and check out the windscreen surround blemish VERY carefullt as it is a known problem area. If its showing it may have completely rotted through underneath the windscreen rubber.

Jimbo

[NiceCupOfTea]

GraemeLambert said:

In fact, I'd have this one instead to be honest.
Get another door for £50 and do some home T5 Suite tuning and you'd be there.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1997-SAAB-9000-AERO-SILV...

If it's mechanically as solid as the ad says, bolt on door & wing and off you go! It's a steal at that price, you could sell the wheels and interior and get your money back.

[carl_w]

Trivia: Cozy Powell was killed whilst driving one of these.

[aeropilot]

ReedyAero said:

B'stard Child said:

My understanding is the gearboxes however don't like that level of bhp but I'm sure one of the UK-SAAB peeps wil be along shortly to put me right

From Paulo on UKS about someone wanting big BHP:

"The td04 will need to be a no.6 hotside for those figures, and a decent ic. Can't see those being got for 350.....
You'll not need new fpr but at least green giants.
You'll ideally need a 3" middle and back exhaust too.
With 350bhp you'll need forge pistons tbh.
Decent uprated fuel pump too.
Then you'll need decent suspension, maybe lsd, top range tyres or you'll be spinning everywhere.
Clutch unless in top order would say bye."

So would be struggling!

You certainley don't need forged pistons for 350hp on a B234R engine as fitted in a 9000 Aero.
Stock bottom end is good for 450+hp.

You certainley need forged pistons for anything over 320hp with the later 9-5 B235 engines, not the 234 9000 engines though.

[KM666]

Hmmm this is setting off all kinds of alarm bells for me, 270bhp (claimed, not proven) and 32mpg, sounds like porkies to me, and from just a de-cat and 'remap', is this car something people are likely to attempt 'turning the boost up' on?

Its a garunteed MOT failure come MOT time just on the faults declared, there is a clear misunderstanding of audio, "subs and amps (plural, not singular) in the parcel shelf", what is the parcel shelf made from? Kevlar? Or else hes trying to pass off 6x9s as subs, or has done something daft to attach them to the parcel shelf, or else English isnt his mother tongue. Also mentioning that the headunit is expesive but not mentioning the brand seems strange.

2 year old photographs of a car for sale today (or yesterday), really? After such a well recieved advert singing its praises you'd have thought he could manage even a few mobile phone pictures to put up.

However it is this line that sets off the loudest alarm bell of all, said of a de-cat "amazingly it actually passes emissions but most testers won't pass it without one" the key word is 'most testers wont pass it', meaning he knows at least one who will, this says to me it could have a forged MOT or at least one of its past MOTs has been forged, I'd be asking what else it has fitted that 'somebody' will supply legal documentation for. Either way that one line makes the seller appear, although capable of stringing together a sentance or two and remembering his spelling and full stops, an extremely suspect individual.

Edited by KM666 on Friday 20th April 22:54

[hairykrishna]

Zircon said:

45bhp gain from an ECU and an exhaust? Really?

The most I have managed to do on my cars with the same modifications (plus an induction kit) was about 20bhp........

ECU essentially controls the boost on 9000's so yes! One of the reasons they're a bargain. My Aero was in many ways the best car I've ever owned.

[NiceCupOfTea]

KM666 said:

Hmmm this is setting off all kinds of alarm bells for me, 270bhp (claimed, not proven) and 32mpg, sounds like porkies to me, and from just a de-cat and 'remap', is this car something people are likely to attempt 'turning the boost up' on?

Its a garunteed MOT failure come MOT time just on the faults declared, there is a clear misunderstanding of audio, "subs and amps (plural, not singular) in the parcel shelf", what is the parcel shelf made from? Kevlar? Or else hes trying to pass off 6x9s as subs, or has done something daft to attach them to the parcel shelf, or else English isnt his mother tongue. Also mentioning that the headunit is expesive but not mentioning the brand seems strange.

2 year old photographs of a car for sale today (or yesterday), really? After such a well recieved advert singing its praises you'd have thought he could manage even a few mobile phone pictures to put up.

However it is this line that sets off the loudest alarm bell of all, said of a de-cat "amazingly it actually passes emissions but most testers won't pass it without one" the key word is 'most testers wont pass it', meaning he knows at least one who will, this says to me it could have a forged MOT or at least one of its past MOTs has been forged, I'd be asking what else it has fitted that 'somebody' will supply legal documentation for. Either way that one line makes the seller appear, although capable of stringing together a sentance or two and remembering his spelling and full stops, an extremely suspect individual.

Edited by KM666 on Friday 20th April 22:54

You don't know Saabs do you?

It's a turbocharged engine - they respond very well to remapping. As said multiple times in this thread you can get upwards of 250bhp from an Aero with just a remap. Using a MBC is a very crude way of doing the same thing without all the safety cutouts, but it's easily possible. Just as cheap is a T5suite map and it's much safer. Doesn't have to be bad for the car if done properly (gradual ramping of boost, no sudden walls of torque!)

32mpg - not a problem. On a run (not babying, just normal motorway driving) mine with 200bhp gets 32mpg, if I cruised at 60 off boost 35+. No reason why a tuned one should be any more thirsty when off boost.

On some lesser cars, parcel shelves may be made from reconstituted pizza boxes - on the 9k it's more like 15mm plywood. Can't say what the owner has done, but it's a solid bit of wood.

Regarding the cat, I may have misunderstood, but there's nothing that says it needs the cat is there? It just has to pass emissions. Apologies if I'm wrong but I understood this was the case.

[NiceCupOfTea]

hairykrishna said:

Zircon said:

45bhp gain from an ECU and an exhaust? Really?

The most I have managed to do on my cars with the same modifications (plus an induction kit) was about 20bhp........

ECU essentially controls the boost on 9000's so yes! One of the reasons they're a bargain. My Aero was in many ways the best car I've ever owned.

West Midlands Saab Specialists Website said:

Saab 9000 2.3T Aero M94-98 (225bhp/342Nm):
Stage One upgrade (+40bhp/+88Nm) T5

That's a remap and perhaps an exhaust, I can't remember off the top of my head. Somebody with a little knowledge and T5suite on a laptop can do essentially the same for free.

ETA: Nope, just checked: Maptun Stage 1 takes it to 270bhp with just a map; no exhaust:

http://www.maptun.net/tuningGuide.php?kategori=670...

Stage 3 gets you to 290bhp and requires an exhaust and filter.

Edited by NiceCupOfTea on Friday 20th April 23:33

[KM666]

NiceCupOfTea said:

You don't know Saabs do you?

It's a turbocharged engine - they respond very well to remapping. As said multiple times in this thread you can get upwards of 250bhp from an Aero with just a remap. Using a MBC is a very crude way of doing the same thing without all the safety cutouts, but it's easily possible. Just as cheap is a T5suite map and it's much safer. Doesn't have to be bad for the car if done properly (gradual ramping of boost, no sudden walls of torque!)

32mpg - not a problem. On a run (not babying, just normal motorway driving) mine with 200bhp gets 32mpg, if I cruised at 60 off boost 35+. No reason why a tuned one should be any more thirsty when off boost.

On some lesser cars, parcel shelves may be made from reconstituted pizza boxes - on the 9k it's more like 15mm plywood. Can't say what the owner has done, but it's a solid bit of wood.

Regarding the cat, I may have misunderstood, but there's nothing that says it needs the cat is there? It just has to pass emissions. Apologies if I'm wrong but I understood this was the case.

Ahhh I did see mentions of remaps doing more than in others. A catalyst is a legal requirement for the MOT, as it is an essential part of the exhaust system, in the same way a car with a bit of scaffold wedged on the manifold pointing out under the drivers door would fail. The emissions test is only a part of it now. (Jan 2012 officially but no mechanic would sign one off that merges over into the prohibitory period, you get stopped with an illegal car, insurance is void, 6 points, your not going to want to protect the person who cost you 6 points much). It will always be a sign of forged MOTs I was taught, as they will often simply ignore the emissions test rather than test it and potentially fail, i've always warned family members to walk away from any garage that offers to 'slip' a decat through the test.

I'd be very doubtful that it could pass an emissions test without the catalyst because to do so would suggest the catalyst wasnt doing anything much beforehand and so no significant advantage would be gained by removing it.
It would idealy want the overall bore of the exhaust changing as IIRC the ideal is something like the swept capacity of an engine as the volume of the overall length of the system, as a catalyst doesnt have the same resistance as say a standard 2" pipe (estimate) the system as a whole would need adjusting or problems with ignition and feulling could occur.

Thats with 35% less power, so I would have thought it would achieve slightly less, 32mpg with 270bhp sounds a bit too good to be true unless its a diesel even off boost.

I've got an old haynes for them so i'll be having a good read up on the 9000 tomorrow, educate myself a bit more on a car i've liked since having a little black matchbox one as a lad with 'turbo' written down the sides.

I think they're nice cars, I just think the adverts a bit dodgy.

Edited by KM666 on Saturday 21st April 00:16