RE: Beijing show: The Victoria Beckham Evoque
Discussion
HighwayStar said:
Land Rovers are designed for extreme environments etc agreed... But, I see plenty of them where I live, on the same roads I drive on. Nothing requiring Land Rover capabilities at all. It's why they are bought, not that I care what othe people drive either. It's their money.
Brand values keeps getting mentioned. We as enthusiasts know what that's all about for Land Rover/Range Rover but... I'd say it doesn't actually mean much in real terms to a lot of their customers. Yeah they know they are kinda pretty good off road but a lot of these vehicles are bought because they're trendy/keep all that's precious safe should the worst happen because they are big and strong. Safe.
I saw a TV prog a few years back where a guy was trying to get people to change there big 4x4's for estate cars. This because of the damage the 4x4 causes when they hit another vehicle, different bumper heights to cars etc. One woman, a mother, had a Discovery. She insisted it was needed to carry the kids, their toy and it's, no other car would do. They took her on an off road course in her Disco. Absolutely frightened the life out of her. She had no idea what this thing was capable of off road, she was stunned! All that tech, completely wasted. The gave her and estate for a week and she managed fine.
My point. Brand values, although they are there the vehicle, they are very rarely the reason a fair number of LR/RR customers buy them.
You see, that just adds fuel to my argument that UK driving licences should be graded on weight in the way that motorbike licences are graded on power and engine size.Brand values keeps getting mentioned. We as enthusiasts know what that's all about for Land Rover/Range Rover but... I'd say it doesn't actually mean much in real terms to a lot of their customers. Yeah they know they are kinda pretty good off road but a lot of these vehicles are bought because they're trendy/keep all that's precious safe should the worst happen because they are big and strong. Safe.
I saw a TV prog a few years back where a guy was trying to get people to change there big 4x4's for estate cars. This because of the damage the 4x4 causes when they hit another vehicle, different bumper heights to cars etc. One woman, a mother, had a Discovery. She insisted it was needed to carry the kids, their toy and it's, no other car would do. They took her on an off road course in her Disco. Absolutely frightened the life out of her. She had no idea what this thing was capable of off road, she was stunned! All that tech, completely wasted. The gave her and estate for a week and she managed fine.
My point. Brand values, although they are there the vehicle, they are very rarely the reason a fair number of LR/RR customers buy them.
I think it's quite a serious point. The faster the bike is, the more likely you are to kill yourself on it, because of simple physics. The faster you go, the further and faster you will be catapulted off it when you hit something or lose control of it.
Cars, thanks to their enclosed safety-cage nature, are more likely to protect anyone at any speed these days. However, the bigger they are, the more of a liability they are if their driver loses control. A 1000kg supermini and a 2500kg 4x4 could crash into the same wall at the same speed, and thanks to construction strength occupants of both cars will probably be OK, but the heavier car will do a lot more damage.
It's the way goods vehicle licences are worked out, and for good reason. If more and more people are choosing to drive a huge, heavy car, then they should prove to set criteria that they are capable of handling it. Look, if the graded motorbike test is seen as a good thing because it reduces motorcyclist deaths, then surely this makes sense on the same grounds?
And yes, I know that some large luxury saloons will also come under these criteria. Fine - there are plenty of people who can't reverse those properly too, so they can take the same test.
FWDRacer said:
sparkymarky321 said:
To be fair a lot of successful business people do have a head start. Can't really knock her success without the spice girls though.
Edited that for you. Clothes label, Perfume line and property portfolio. Yep - Jetpilot is right. It's all a total fluke 
Because of her public image - managed by PR and marketing - she has become a 'brand' in herself.
This 'brand' is not managed by her. It'll be some PR and marketing exercise.
Clothes label - would have come about regardless. Her name will be 'licenced' for use on it by her PR and marketing managers. She isn't a 'fashion designer' - if she was she'd have gone through art school, learnt her trade, designed a graduation collection herself, had it exhibted, and worked bloody hard to get into an extremely competitive business. She didn't. Other people will design and make the clothes. In order to add some semblance of authenticity, she might wander into the studio every now and then and be asked to make some simple 'I like that' and 'I don't like that' choices.
Same goes for the perfume line. Is she a perfumier? Has she got the requisite background in chemistry? No - same setup. Occasionally she might be asked to sniff some new perfumes and be asked which ones she does and doesn't like.
Property portfolio - she's rich. Rich people buy properties. That's not the sign of some 'astute businesswoman', more like an accountant pointing out that buying property in certain areas for certain amounts of money will make more money in the long term than keeping it in the bank. As with the clothes and the perfume, all she needs to do is say 'yes' or 'no'.
And she's got herself into this 'manageable' position as a result of being part of a mediochre manufactured girl-group who sold lots of records to teenagers for about three years back in the late Nineties after Britpop imploded, then marrying a famous footballer. I suspect any one of the Spice Girls would have found themselves in her position had they married David Beckham. He's the talented one, he's got the profile, and if you're in his circle you will, almost by default, become famous.
She can't even sing. She brought out a post-Spice Girls solo album that I remember getting barrel-scraping half-star reviews when it was released back in about 2001 or so. Heavily autotuned, produced to death and fillered to the nines with samples and guest vocals to mask what a poor singer she is.
She and her lesser ilk (Katona, Price et al) are simply an example of how out of control marketing has become, and how it has managed to warp several people's perspectives.
Jade Goody was a perfect example. The evidence from Big Brother was clear and blatant - she was thick as pigswill and make no mistake. All it took was a high-profile platform for her to get noticed and suddenly she had a perfume range, a TV show and various other 'ventures' too. You think she masterminded all those things herself? The girl who thought there was a country called East Angular?
No. These people are 'brands' operated, managed, licenced and marketed by PRs and commercial agents. All they need do is a combination of bugger-all and what they're told, and they'll always take a substantial cut of 'brand them', but don't mistake that ensuing success with business acumen or intelligence. The genuinely astute, intelligent ones in these scenarios are the machiavellian string-pullers behind the scenes. And they'll be even richer.
I think we are wasting our fingers twincam, anyone who seriously thinks VB would be where she is today without the Spice Girls and David are probably merely tapping away on their keyboard from a secure cell.
She is wealthy for sure, that wealth as it does has resulted in many spin off's in other areas easily accessible through wealth and fame, most certainly not through any business skills she might have! In any case you mention above Twincam, i think the simple question would be, did VB actually sit there and think, do you know what, i could make a lot more money if i, invested in property, bought out a clothes label, designed a perfume....i think the biggest dilema she has ever in her head is what stupid name can i think up for my next kid!
But like i said, good on her and David and the likes of Rooney, BB winners and Xfactor stars etc as if it wasnt for their football skills or stardom they would most likely be a statistic in our ever increasing youth employment level!
She is wealthy for sure, that wealth as it does has resulted in many spin off's in other areas easily accessible through wealth and fame, most certainly not through any business skills she might have! In any case you mention above Twincam, i think the simple question would be, did VB actually sit there and think, do you know what, i could make a lot more money if i, invested in property, bought out a clothes label, designed a perfume....i think the biggest dilema she has ever in her head is what stupid name can i think up for my next kid!
But like i said, good on her and David and the likes of Rooney, BB winners and Xfactor stars etc as if it wasnt for their football skills or stardom they would most likely be a statistic in our ever increasing youth employment level!
Edited by jetpilot on Tuesday 24th April 18:30
jetpilot said:
I think we are wasting our fingers twincam, anyone who seriously thinks VB would be where she is today without the Spice Girls and David are probably merely tapping away on their keyboard from a secure cell.
She is wealthy for sure, that wealth as it does has resulted in many spin off's in other areas easily accessible through wealth and fame, most certainly not through any business skills she might have! In any case you mention above Twincam, i think the simple question would be, did VB actually sit there and think, do you know what, i could make a lot more money if i, invested in property, bought out a clothes label, designed a perfume....i think the biggest dilema she has ever in her head is what stupid name can i think up for my next kid!
But like i said, good on her and David and the likes of Rooney, BB winners and Xfactor stars etc as if it wasnt for their football skills or stardom they would most likely be a statistic in our ever increasing youth employment level!
I disagree, i believe Posh bint would have been very rich even if she hadn't been a Spice girl or met Beckham. I say this as i believe she'd have been smart enough to latch on to a rich guy, or live off daddy.She is wealthy for sure, that wealth as it does has resulted in many spin off's in other areas easily accessible through wealth and fame, most certainly not through any business skills she might have! In any case you mention above Twincam, i think the simple question would be, did VB actually sit there and think, do you know what, i could make a lot more money if i, invested in property, bought out a clothes label, designed a perfume....i think the biggest dilema she has ever in her head is what stupid name can i think up for my next kid!
But like i said, good on her and David and the likes of Rooney, BB winners and Xfactor stars etc as if it wasnt for their football skills or stardom they would most likely be a statistic in our ever increasing youth employment level!
Edited by jetpilot on Tuesday 24th April 18:30
VB... I don't think I'd like her as a person and I certainly don't find her attractive in the slightest. It wouldn't hurt her to crack a smile once in a while. As we all now she can't really sing. It did make me laugh when it was announced way back that she was putting he music career on hold to support David. Reality, she was properly found out. Her solo album flopped lower than whale sh!te and her record company dropped her.
Putting her/their name to a smelly is exactly what it says... Yeah I like the smell of that one, give it a name, stick dvb on it and job done.
As I say, I don't like her but credit where credit is due, she does design actually design, style, call it what you will, the dresses, coats etc for her label. She has recieved high praise and accolades for her designs. In 2011 she was awarded Designer of the Year at the British fashion awards. She also designed dresses for Hollywood A-list stars attending the Oscars. They can get stuff from/by anyone they want. In that area... She has studied fashion and knows exactly what she's doing.
I get why JRL have done what they have, using a celeb for publicity but someone maybe associated with industrial/tech design or something associated with the Dakar but what do I know.
How about Jonathan Ive, British... In 2010, Fortune named Ive the "world's smartest designer" for his work on Apple products. Would've positioned the 200 limited edition Evoques and truly modern and cutting edge and who doesn't know what Apple products look like....
Putting her/their name to a smelly is exactly what it says... Yeah I like the smell of that one, give it a name, stick dvb on it and job done.
As I say, I don't like her but credit where credit is due, she does design actually design, style, call it what you will, the dresses, coats etc for her label. She has recieved high praise and accolades for her designs. In 2011 she was awarded Designer of the Year at the British fashion awards. She also designed dresses for Hollywood A-list stars attending the Oscars. They can get stuff from/by anyone they want. In that area... She has studied fashion and knows exactly what she's doing.
I get why JRL have done what they have, using a celeb for publicity but someone maybe associated with industrial/tech design or something associated with the Dakar but what do I know.
How about Jonathan Ive, British... In 2010, Fortune named Ive the "world's smartest designer" for his work on Apple products. Would've positioned the 200 limited edition Evoques and truly modern and cutting edge and who doesn't know what Apple products look like....
jetpilot said:
vsonix said:
Also people like Beckhams and their ilk basically run their public identity as a business anyway. I guess, compared to say, Spices Halliwell, B or Bunton, Victoria is a relatively astute businesswoman, otherwise presumably they too would be enjoying the champagne lifestyle instead of the panto circuit.
So if it wasnt for the Spice Girls and her marriage to David, you think Victoria would be wealthy with her astute business skills?HighwayStar said:
How about Jonathan Ive, British... In 2010, Fortune named Ive the "world's smartest designer" for his work on Apple products. Would've positioned the 200 limited edition Evoques and truly modern and cutting edge and who doesn't know what Apple products look like....
True, but you can bet Apple would have insisted on making sure they held the rights to his work, so you wouldn't have ended up with a 'Jonathan Ive' Evoque, you'd have got an 'Apple' Evoque that probably would have financially crippled JLR to make.You miss my point, Ive is an industrial designer... He is responsible for the look and feel of apple products not how they work. What I was getting at was a few internal and external touches, nice details for the limited edition 200. Of course highly unlikely he'd work outside of Apple.
HighwayStar said:
It wouldn't hurt her to crack a smile once in a while.
As I say, I don't like her but credit where credit is due, she does design actually design, style, call it what you will, the dresses, coats etc for her label. She has recieved high praise and accolades for her designs. In 2011 she was awarded Designer of the Year at the British fashion awards. She also designed dresses for Hollywood A-list stars attending the Oscars. They can get stuff from/by anyone they want. In that area... She has studied fashion and knows exactly what she's doing.
Did that constant VB pout not come back to haunt her when the SG dolls were released, by all accounts the VB sat on the shelf as she or it looked so miserable!As I say, I don't like her but credit where credit is due, she does design actually design, style, call it what you will, the dresses, coats etc for her label. She has recieved high praise and accolades for her designs. In 2011 she was awarded Designer of the Year at the British fashion awards. She also designed dresses for Hollywood A-list stars attending the Oscars. They can get stuff from/by anyone they want. In that area... She has studied fashion and knows exactly what she's doing.
Whilst you can accredit her with some form of design talent, would she have won designer of the year, would these A list celebs really be wearing a VB dress if she was a no one, No, im sure there are plenty of talented designers out there who cant catch a break as they are respectfully not known!
VB success is from Spice Girls and more so her marriage to David, wasnt it well documented that even growing up she said she wanted to marry a famous footballer? If she was the astute business woman as suggested she would have been able to forge a career without David or fame such as Anita Roddick who started Bodyshop or Debra Meadan or that other guy on there now Hilary Devay, sorry, i meant "woman"!
jetpilot said:
Did that constant VB pout not come back to haunt her when the SG dolls were released, by all accounts the VB sat on the shelf as she or it looked so miserable!
Whilst you can accredit her with some form of design talent, would she have won designer of the year, would these A list celebs really be wearing a VB dress if she was a no one, No, im sure there are plenty of talented designers out there who cant catch a break as they are respectfully not known!
VB success is from Spice Girls and more so her marriage to David, wasnt it well documented that even growing up she said she wanted to marry a famous footballer? If she was the astute business woman as suggested she would have been able to forge a career without David or fame such as Anita Roddick who started Bodyshop or Debra Meadan or that other guy on there now Hilary Devay, sorry, i meant "woman"!
She wasn't exactly poor before she hooked up with Beckham but obviously she done well with his support... No doubt about it. But... Celebrity or not... Another celebrity/A list Hollywood actress is going to wear VB's clobber if her clobber is sh!te! They are some of the most image conscious people around with plenty of established names around. If it's duff... They ain't gonna wear it. Whilst you can accredit her with some form of design talent, would she have won designer of the year, would these A list celebs really be wearing a VB dress if she was a no one, No, im sure there are plenty of talented designers out there who cant catch a break as they are respectfully not known!
VB success is from Spice Girls and more so her marriage to David, wasnt it well documented that even growing up she said she wanted to marry a famous footballer? If she was the astute business woman as suggested she would have been able to forge a career without David or fame such as Anita Roddick who started Bodyshop or Debra Meadan or that other guy on there now Hilary Devay, sorry, i meant "woman"!
Anyway enough talk of her... Don't like her but I wouldn't slam her just for the sake of it.
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