Cerbera With Reliable Engine - Worth More or Less ?
Discussion
BlueEyedBoy said:
Jag-D said:
Hang about there bossman, I fully admit I didn't read the post properly as I was working at the time, but nice to see that small mistakes can be overlooked on PH these days 
So in the case of yourself, it's classed as reliable? Funny as most of the people I've known with Cerberas have had several rebuilds on both 4.2 and 4.5
But I'm Mr Bulls
t...what the fk would I know eh?
If we are talking about the old days you wouldn't have posted a comment saying you could smell bullsSo in the case of yourself, it's classed as reliable? Funny as most of the people I've known with Cerberas have had several rebuilds on both 4.2 and 4.5
But I'm Mr Bulls
t...what the fk would I know eh?t and would have maybe asked me to clarify the comment I thought I was quite clearly saying that just replacing the engine is not going to make a cerbera reliable. Yes I got lucky and mine was, and to some extent why I sold it before the magic was lost, but at the back of my mind was always the thought of something going wrong and the 2K average bill, but it was never the engine that worried me.
I can't see why replacing the engine with an LS or SBC wouldn't make it reliable as it's an unstressed, tried and tested engine in both road, race and extreme guises.
I can't imagine why anyway would swap an AJP for an RV8, but that's just me
redgriff500 said:
Basil Brush said:
For about 8 years and c.50k miles my daily was my Tuscan, complete with unreliable TVR S6 motor.
Ah but what is it now ?Also Servicing/Repairs: £2,617 a year doesn't make it sound very reliable.
Reliability and servicing costs are two very different things though.
Jayho said:
I'm guessing you wouldn't hesitate to replace your Rotary with a V block then? Speaking from the RX7 point of view, if you replace the engine I'd assume that the characteristics and charm of the original car would be significantly reduced?
Yes I'm planning a 1UZ V8 Transplant on it - I have both donors.The charm of constantly looking at gauges and 15mpg is somewhat over rated
redgriff500 said:
Dave and SoCalled - you clearly haven't read this thread very well.
On the 3rd post I put up a link to an AJP that was rebuilt by TVR Power at 35k and it then needed ANOTHER rebuild at 49k - how do you explain that ?
Look down the classifieds how many have had a rebuild ?
A rare few haven't had one but is that a good engine or just lucky so far ?
I'm not saying anyone's opinion is wrong regarding price / desirability of alternative engines but saying the TVR engines are reliable is ridiculous even rotaries last longer.
I've read the thread very well and ignored the anecdotal evidence presented that you and many others are basing their opinions on, and presented you with the facts as they stand today. On the 3rd post I put up a link to an AJP that was rebuilt by TVR Power at 35k and it then needed ANOTHER rebuild at 49k - how do you explain that ?
Look down the classifieds how many have had a rebuild ?
A rare few haven't had one but is that a good engine or just lucky so far ?
I'm not saying anyone's opinion is wrong regarding price / desirability of alternative engines but saying the TVR engines are reliable is ridiculous even rotaries last longer.
Many TVR's have had an engine rebuild due to shoddy build/rebuild quality. Once rebuilt properly they're pretty bullet proof and "reliable". There are of course exceptions (as with everything) but without knowing the facts surrounding them it's pointless to dwell on them.
Whatever engine is in it though, you will find that it will have much the same overall maintenance costs and general reliability as it always had as the engine is only one part of whole the car.
Values wise the only engine swap that could maintain or increase (by a fraction of the conversion cost) the car's market value in the short to near term would be an LS done by a proper credentialed builder. Anything less than this, not a chance, and in the long term originality will remain king.
JPearson said:
They're only unreliable if you treat them like st
I've often suspected that this is one of the biggest problems with TVRs. tI've had 3 different ones now over the last 20 years and to be honest I just haven't encompasses the problems that many people talk of.
The commonality between my cars is that they are garaged, generally only used in sensible weather and most importantly driven with mechanical sympathy.
But I've seen plenty of Tivs being treated and driven a of they were Vectras late for a double glazing conference. I've never quite understood why people have tended to treat this type of sports car like a holiday hire car.
Had most tvr's when they were new and a few since. Had chimaera's first then griffs followed by a 99 sp6 cerbera and 4.5 cerbera free.
This was 13 years ago so I suspect the cars have been fettled and been changed over the years.
My sp6 spent about 9 months out of the first 12 in blackpool had 3 engines, gearbox etc etc and most other parts before they decided to give me a 4.5 for free.
In hindsight I shouldn't have had one of the first ones but at that point in life I was an early adopted and loved the latest things.
If I had to have another one again it would be a 4.5
Phib
This was 13 years ago so I suspect the cars have been fettled and been changed over the years.
My sp6 spent about 9 months out of the first 12 in blackpool had 3 engines, gearbox etc etc and most other parts before they decided to give me a 4.5 for free.
In hindsight I shouldn't have had one of the first ones but at that point in life I was an early adopted and loved the latest things.
If I had to have another one again it would be a 4.5
Phib
Dave 500 said:
I would never buy a Cerbera without a TVR engine just think, would you buy a Porsche with an American V8 or an Aston with a Honda power plant.
That's because Honda and Porsche can make engines that last, so there is no incentive to change them. Honda in particular can make a very high revving engine with a higher specific power output than the AJP that can reach 200k+ without breaking a sweat. Mr2Mike said:
That's because Honda and Porsche can make engines that last, so there is no incentive to change them. Honda in particular can make a very high revving engine with a higher specific power output than the AJP that can reach 200k+ without breaking a sweat.
And they did this for a couple of million quid? redgriff500 said:
dvs_dave said:
Once rebuilt properly they're pretty bullet proof and "reliable".
So in the example I gave... your saying TVR Power don't rebuild them properly then.Strange I thought they were supposed to be one of the best.
DonkeyApple said:
Mr2Mike said:
That's because Honda and Porsche can make engines that last, so there is no incentive to change them. Honda in particular can make a very high revving engine with a higher specific power output than the AJP that can reach 200k+ without breaking a sweat.
And they did this for a couple of million quid? Mr2Mike said:
DonkeyApple said:
Mr2Mike said:
That's because Honda and Porsche can make engines that last, so there is no incentive to change them. Honda in particular can make a very high revving engine with a higher specific power output than the AJP that can reach 200k+ without breaking a sweat.
And they did this for a couple of million quid? At the end of the day it's just a factor of business, chapter 1, page 1.
The more money you have to develop a product and then the more sales you have to ammortise that spend and gain profit the better.
A business building ultra low volumes tends to mean a product that is extremely expensive, but in a competitive market you have to build to a price. And there lies the disadvantage.
If you are building to a budget and only building a few hundred units then you can't use the best technology to ensure 100% build consistency, parts consistency or anything.
For example the new era of TVR heads are being designed and built using state of the art techniques and processes to ensure excellent tollerances and consistency. One of these heads costs more than TVR were originally paying for the entire engine. And yet Honda and the like can churn out even better heads for a few quid due to economies of scale. So, yes the size of the firm very clearly has an impact that would lead you to summise that the ultra low volume unit, built to a budget, will almost certainly not be as robust etc.
DonkeyApple said:
It's kind of very relevant and I'm not saying it is OK for an engine to be unreliable.
It's still not relevant to the original post I quoted. You probably wouldn't want to put a different engine in your Honda or your Porsche because the one it comes with is very robust. The same logic can not be applied to the TVR, and the fact that the development budget for the AJP was very small by most manufacturers standards does not change this.Fire99 said:
redgriff500 said:
So in the example I gave... your saying TVR Power don't rebuild them properly then.
Strange I thought they were supposed to be one of the best.
To be fair it sounds like you already have the answer you want, in your own head. Do what pleases you.Strange I thought they were supposed to be one of the best.
This part of the thread has simply wandered into farce due to some thinking that just because a small percentage haven't been rebuilt before 30k that makes then reliable.
I would far rather have one without a TVR engine BUT I don't want to left with an unsellable car if I'm in a minority of one and I must admit that I'm very surprised at the percentage prefering TVR engines.
Would I stick an Audi / Lexus V8 in a Ferrari or a Lambo - yes I would.
Indeed Audi already do
Mr2Mike said:
DonkeyApple said:
It's kind of very relevant and I'm not saying it is OK for an engine to be unreliable.
It's still not relevant to the original post I quoted. You probably wouldn't want to put a different engine in your Honda or your Porsche because the one it comes with is very robust. The same logic can not be applied to the TVR, and the fact that the development budget for the AJP was very small by most manufacturers standards does not change this.I'm not convinced that the sole arguement is based around whether an engine is 'robust' or not. That's a bit of a budget arguement. There are plenty of classic cars out there where the engine is the heart and soul of the character of the car but not a robust engine. It isn't a reason to junk it and stick a Chevy in. Maybe it becomes more of a reason to do if you haven't the money to fund the upkeep? I don't know.
No one really cares what powertrain is in a snotter but there is clearly an arguement over character and originality when you are looking at more esoteric cars. People have even stuffed LS units in 911s. Why? Who knows but it was probably fun to do and fun to drive.
But when the TVR engines are built by proper people using proper parts and within the realms of common sense you get a product which is actually extremely reliable for such an immensely low volume product.
DonkeyApple said:
Mr2Mike said:
DonkeyApple said:
It's kind of very relevant and I'm not saying it is OK for an engine to be unreliable.
It's still not relevant to the original post I quoted. You probably wouldn't want to put a different engine in your Honda or your Porsche because the one it comes with is very robust. The same logic can not be applied to the TVR, and the fact that the development budget for the AJP was very small by most manufacturers standards does not change this.I'm not convinced that the sole arguement is based around whether an engine is 'robust' or not. That's a bit of a budget arguement. There are plenty of classic cars out there where the engine is the heart and soul of the character of the car but not a robust engine. It isn't a reason to junk it and stick a Chevy in. Maybe it becomes more of a reason to do if you haven't the money to fund the upkeep? I don't know.
No one really cares what powertrain is in a snotter but there is clearly an arguement over character and originality when you are looking at more esoteric cars. People have even stuffed LS units in 911s. Why? Who knows but it was probably fun to do and fun to drive.
But when the TVR engines are built by proper people using proper parts and within the realms of common sense you get a product which is actually extremely reliable for such an immensely low volume product.
I can afford to buy 100+ TVR engines but it simply seems stupid to do so. I like telling people how I've only ever lost money on 3 cars in my life. Some prefer telling people how they've spent 5k a month maintaining theirs - I think they're mental, they think I'm tight.
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