Cerbera With Reliable Engine - Worth More or Less ?
Discussion
As far as I am concerned an engine is an engine. As long as it's characteristics fit the vehicle in question I can't see any problem with it.
Arguable the LS1 was the next logical step for TVR and could have saved the company.
My Land Rover 110 has run a Daihatsu engine for the best part of 10 years which I am now swapping to a 200tdi simply as parts are more available and performance/economy is similar.
It only becomes an issue when you make it one.
Arguable the LS1 was the next logical step for TVR and could have saved the company.
My Land Rover 110 has run a Daihatsu engine for the best part of 10 years which I am now swapping to a 200tdi simply as parts are more available and performance/economy is similar.
It only becomes an issue when you make it one.
My 2p... is about as much as I'd spend on a regular cerbera, as I don't want to flirt with mega regular repair bills. However any other engine would at least offer reliable enjoyment for the long run. Even if it is down on power it'll still be faster than a car stuck in the service department. Although personally I'd get an LS in there.
redgriff500 said:
No he has a valid point.
When an LS engine was first put in a Cerbera quite a few said it spoiled it.
Now it has "official backing" it's accepted by most.
I'd far rather have a Honda engined Elise - as would most judging from the prices but that is a considerable performance upgrade rather than comparable or even downgrade.
One of the reasons for this post was because I saw a Rover V8 engined Cerb for sale and it appeals to me but I guessed less so to others and it looks like I was right.
Why don't you buy it then, because it looks like nobody else wants it. Job done. Have fun.When an LS engine was first put in a Cerbera quite a few said it spoiled it.
Now it has "official backing" it's accepted by most.
I'd far rather have a Honda engined Elise - as would most judging from the prices but that is a considerable performance upgrade rather than comparable or even downgrade.
One of the reasons for this post was because I saw a Rover V8 engined Cerb for sale and it appeals to me but I guessed less so to others and it looks like I was right.
Now if you supercharged it then it would add value dumping an ls In.
I have never driven a cerb but it's up there with 2-3 other cars to be my daily pootler so can't comment on feel of engine. But along with few others the running cost of repairs does scare me slightly and I do like the LS engine (experienced this in a corvette).
I think an LS conversion would appeal to many tbh. I thought about as soon as the cerb came in to my radar
I have never driven a cerb but it's up there with 2-3 other cars to be my daily pootler so can't comment on feel of engine. But along with few others the running cost of repairs does scare me slightly and I do like the LS engine (experienced this in a corvette).
I think an LS conversion would appeal to many tbh. I thought about as soon as the cerb came in to my radar
redgriff500 said:
Because I'll want to sell it after a year or two and it's advertised at more than some std ones.
But you want a reliable cerb and as you seem to think they're all a time bomb with an ajp or sp6 then surely paying more for a RV8 powered car is worth it (to you). Just don't bleat when the cam goes on the RV8 car at 20k 
These TVR AJP engine bashing threads are a good laugh. It's amazing how worked up people get over how unreliable these cars and engines are.
There's no getting away from the fact the TVR engines have had a bad press in the past. Yes they do still go bang, but with a good rebuild with a nice warranty you can't go far wrong. If you like getting your hands dirty, the AJP and SP6 are pretty simple engines and can be DIY rebuilt if you have an understanding of how they work. Just like the complete car.
TVR's are simple creations and have a lot to give there owners. If you like your cars and going fast, the TVR in-house engines just adds to the TVR experience. Yes the RV8 was a special engine, Having owned a RV8 400se wedge, I've got to say I much prefer the SP6 in the T350. Before owning a SP6 I would have agreed with swapping the engine out for a yank lump. But no longer, the SP6 could blow up tomorrow and I would rebuild it. The car has personality and the grumpy TVR engine just makes it so much better.
It's good fun when someone asks what engine is in the T350. "Is it a Ford or a Rover engine" no it's a TVR engine. The look of bemusement on there face and you can tell there thinking that won't be reliable then. If they say what they're thinking. I agree very unreliable you wouldn't want one.
There's no getting away from the fact the TVR engines have had a bad press in the past. Yes they do still go bang, but with a good rebuild with a nice warranty you can't go far wrong. If you like getting your hands dirty, the AJP and SP6 are pretty simple engines and can be DIY rebuilt if you have an understanding of how they work. Just like the complete car.
TVR's are simple creations and have a lot to give there owners. If you like your cars and going fast, the TVR in-house engines just adds to the TVR experience. Yes the RV8 was a special engine, Having owned a RV8 400se wedge, I've got to say I much prefer the SP6 in the T350. Before owning a SP6 I would have agreed with swapping the engine out for a yank lump. But no longer, the SP6 could blow up tomorrow and I would rebuild it. The car has personality and the grumpy TVR engine just makes it so much better.
It's good fun when someone asks what engine is in the T350. "Is it a Ford or a Rover engine" no it's a TVR engine. The look of bemusement on there face and you can tell there thinking that won't be reliable then. If they say what they're thinking. I agree very unreliable you wouldn't want one.
Edited by TVR Tommy on Wednesday 25th April 10:33
A friend had a Cerbera 4.2 and that managed to eat it's own crankshaft as the shaft broke into big metal chunks.
Supposedly the later ones are supposed to be stronger. I know the Speed Six rebuilt by TVR Power were known to be strong but hadn't spotted any notes about the AJP.
I am not a TVR hater by any means (previous TVR owner and would still like a Tuscan at some point) but the thought of an AJP still puts me off but in the same light I wouldn't have a Cerbera with an LS engine as you might as well just get a corvette.
Supposedly the later ones are supposed to be stronger. I know the Speed Six rebuilt by TVR Power were known to be strong but hadn't spotted any notes about the AJP.
I am not a TVR hater by any means (previous TVR owner and would still like a Tuscan at some point) but the thought of an AJP still puts me off but in the same light I wouldn't have a Cerbera with an LS engine as you might as well just get a corvette.
redgriff500 said:
spitfire4v8 said:
Why don't you buy it then, because it looks like nobody else wants it. Job done. Have fun.
Because I'll want to sell it after a year or two and it's advertised at more than some std ones.I know a few people with Cerbs and only one has ever had any real problems with the engine, crankshafts being the main issue.
From what I understand it's the 4.2's that are more prone to this than the 4.5s but I'm no expert. The biggest problem with the Cerbs is more around electrics.
Why not try and find a S6 Cerb with a recently rebuilt engine from Power? 5 years and 100k warranty on those 'if' theres any problems.
From what I understand it's the 4.2's that are more prone to this than the 4.5s but I'm no expert. The biggest problem with the Cerbs is more around electrics.
Why not try and find a S6 Cerb with a recently rebuilt engine from Power? 5 years and 100k warranty on those 'if' theres any problems.
When I was looking for a Cerb just over two years ago my original plan was to buy a 'cheap' one with engine problems and drop an LS into it. I even went to look at two possibilities.
I then test drove an SP6 and an AJP.
I did a lot of research amongst the b/s threads on here and spoke to the companies who actually know about the engines.
Conensus of opinion was:-
SP6, if I could find a rebuilt one, done properly, I would have no problems. Unfortunately the only ones available which were warrantied were well out of my price range.
4.2, I was told by many that the 4.2 was less powerful than the 4.5 and suffered from crankshaft problems which could be expensive!
4.5, considered to be as close to 'bomb-proof' as any TVR engine could be out of the factory. I managed to find one which had been well looked after and had been 'fettled' by the gurus.
My gamble seems to have paid off! The only real problems of a mechanical nature which I've had were with the chocolate diff mounting bracket which has now been relaced by a heavy duty item.
While I was trawling through ads (and still do) you can see the perception of the values of the different engines. SP6's with no rebuild are generally quite cheap, followed by 4.2's then a bit of a jump in price to the 4.5. Rebuilt and warrantied SP6's, Red Rose and the last few cars out of the factory tend to command the highest price.
What you do with your car is totally your choice.
My Cerb, which I'm going to try and keep for as long as possible, will not be changed in any radical way but I am doing my best to keep it close to original in order to maintain it's worth.
My Wedge is being modified a great deal, but it's being done for me and will hopefully be my ideal drive (to a budget) when finished. I don't intend to sell this car so perceived value will not be a consideration (and I'll take all the negative comments from other Wedge pilots on the chin!)
I then test drove an SP6 and an AJP.
I did a lot of research amongst the b/s threads on here and spoke to the companies who actually know about the engines.
Conensus of opinion was:-
SP6, if I could find a rebuilt one, done properly, I would have no problems. Unfortunately the only ones available which were warrantied were well out of my price range.
4.2, I was told by many that the 4.2 was less powerful than the 4.5 and suffered from crankshaft problems which could be expensive!
4.5, considered to be as close to 'bomb-proof' as any TVR engine could be out of the factory. I managed to find one which had been well looked after and had been 'fettled' by the gurus.
My gamble seems to have paid off! The only real problems of a mechanical nature which I've had were with the chocolate diff mounting bracket which has now been relaced by a heavy duty item.
While I was trawling through ads (and still do) you can see the perception of the values of the different engines. SP6's with no rebuild are generally quite cheap, followed by 4.2's then a bit of a jump in price to the 4.5. Rebuilt and warrantied SP6's, Red Rose and the last few cars out of the factory tend to command the highest price.
What you do with your car is totally your choice.
My Cerb, which I'm going to try and keep for as long as possible, will not be changed in any radical way but I am doing my best to keep it close to original in order to maintain it's worth.
My Wedge is being modified a great deal, but it's being done for me and will hopefully be my ideal drive (to a budget) when finished. I don't intend to sell this car so perceived value will not be a consideration (and I'll take all the negative comments from other Wedge pilots on the chin!)
Basil Brush said:
Why not go the whole hog. Put a Fiat Twinair in and then you'll have reliability, low car tax and exemption from the congestion charge.
Ah yes - the old a 4.6 Rover V8 is too slow...Approx 250bhp in 1100kg car - so what is your DAILY driver ?
I see this a lot on the RX7 forum where people look down on 300odd bhp cars, when you look at their posts you see their 450bhp RX7 hasn't been on the road for a year and they drive a Mondeo everyday.
redgriff500 said:
spitfire4v8 said:
Why don't you buy it then, because it looks like nobody else wants it. Job done. Have fun.
Because I'll want to sell it after a year or two and it's advertised at more than some std ones.Frankly, _MOST_ people in the market for a Cerb wouldn't touch an RV8 conversion with a barge pole. It isn't what the Cerbera is about and I think that you are probably in a minority. The AJP is reliable, it just needs regular 'fettling'... After all, it is fundamentally a race engine!
However, if we're talking LS3, now that is a completely different kettle of fish.
Ultimately, I feel that when the Cerb becomes more of a classic & collectable car, original examples will fetch more money with LS3 converted versions being more of a 'practical' classic. Much like the Stag today with original engines vs RV8 conversions.
My 2p.
M
redgriff500 said:
DonkeyApple said:
I'm sure that if a Cerbera was in fact a truck and was being sold in the USA this would be extremely relevant.
No he has a valid point.When an LS engine was first put in a Cerbera quite a few said it spoiled it.
Now it has "official backing" it's accepted by most.
I'd far rather have a Honda engined Elise - as would most judging from the prices but that is a considerable performance upgrade rather than comparable or even downgrade.
One of the reasons for this post was because I saw a Rover V8 engined Cerb for sale and it appeals to me but I guessed less so to others and it looks like I was right.
The market has shown that you can convert an engine on your own and the value plummets. However, if the conversion is done by a 'brand' then the value will still be lower than the actual cost of the conversion (there is no profit on this sort of thing) but the value should compare to that of an original and in some cases be higher.
RV8 v LS3, well I think that it would be fair to say that an RV8 brings significantly less to the table than an LS3. Certainly the RV8 is a fall in performance over the AJP as opposed to the LS being easily comparible and in liklihood greater.
Lower running costs? Well the LS3 is going to stress more parts so I'd expect higher consumeables unless these are upgraded.
So, in a convoluted way I would say that a Cerbera with an LS3 by a reputable 'brand' would have comparable value to a standard Cerb but leave you at a huge loss on the cost, but a conversion done at home would be cheaper but have much less value than a standard Cerb.
redgriff500 said:
Ah yes - the old a 4.6 Rover V8 is too slow...
Approx 250bhp in 1100kg car - so what is your DAILY driver ?
I see this a lot on the RX7 forum where people look down on 300odd bhp cars, when you look at their posts you see their 450bhp RX7 hasn't been on the road for a year and they drive a Mondeo everyday.
What's the point? The Rover V8 isn't cheap to extract power from and although is cheaper to buy in the first place an LS is going to be quicker and have greater resale as more and more AJP's die. I am sure the character of the Cerb is very much down to the engine but I would never buy one due to the fragile nature of it. Loads of people say differently but this isn't backed up by looking at ones for sale and speaking to places like TVR Power. Sure the AJP is a race engine and the LS isn't but is there any arguement which will ultimately produce more power AND be reliable?Approx 250bhp in 1100kg car - so what is your DAILY driver ?
I see this a lot on the RX7 forum where people look down on 300odd bhp cars, when you look at their posts you see their 450bhp RX7 hasn't been on the road for a year and they drive a Mondeo everyday.
As for big power cars its the same in EVERY forum. Caterham's north of 260HP all have problems yet if you are running something with 'only' 200HP its sometimes sneered at.
LS and TVR was an obvious marriage that was never consumated and IMO could have meant the marque lived on (properly) and profitably. The orignal TVR ethos was about going fast for a fraction of the cost of the competition. An LS conversion is absolutely in this spirit and anyone who says differently is guilty of the same snobbery that is banded around against Ferrari owners.
redgriff500 said:
Ah yes - the old a 4.6 Rover V8 is too slow...
Approx 250bhp in 1100kg car - so what is your DAILY driver ?
I see this a lot on the RX7 forum where people look down on 300odd bhp cars, when you look at their posts you see their 450bhp RX7 hasn't been on the road for a year and they drive a Mondeo everyday.
For about 8 years and c.50k miles my daily was my Tuscan, complete with unreliable TVR S6 motor. Approx 250bhp in 1100kg car - so what is your DAILY driver ?
I see this a lot on the RX7 forum where people look down on 300odd bhp cars, when you look at their posts you see their 450bhp RX7 hasn't been on the road for a year and they drive a Mondeo everyday.
yonex said:
What's the point? The Rover V8 isn't cheap to extract power from and although is cheaper to buy in the first place an LS is going to be quicker and have greater resale as more and more AJP's die. I am sure the character of the Cerb is very much down to the engine but I would never buy one due to the fragile nature of it. Loads of people say differently but this isn't backed up by looking at ones for sale and speaking to places like TVR Power. Sure the AJP is a race engine and the LS isn't but is there any arguement which will ultimately produce more power AND be reliable?
As for big power cars its the same in EVERY forum. Caterham's north of 260HP all have problems yet if you are running something with 'only' 200HP its sometimes sneered at.
LS and TVR was an obvious marriage that was never consumated and IMO could have meant the marque lived on (properly) and profitably. The orignal TVR ethos was about going fast for a fraction of the cost of the competition. An LS conversion is absolutely in this spirit and anyone who says differently is guilty of the same snobbery that is banded around against Ferrari owners.
Agree on a performance/practicality basis but the question was about impact on future value.As for big power cars its the same in EVERY forum. Caterham's north of 260HP all have problems yet if you are running something with 'only' 200HP its sometimes sneered at.
LS and TVR was an obvious marriage that was never consumated and IMO could have meant the marque lived on (properly) and profitably. The orignal TVR ethos was about going fast for a fraction of the cost of the competition. An LS conversion is absolutely in this spirit and anyone who says differently is guilty of the same snobbery that is banded around against Ferrari owners.
If the aim is to make a Cerb faster and cut down on servicing costs then an LS is the obvious route. If performance isn't the main aim then the cost to do the LS swap properly covers a lot of servicing and you won't get it back at resale.
If you want an RV8 Cerbie though, just get a Chim with a hardtop and squint a bit.
Edited by Basil Brush on Wednesday 25th April 13:19
redgriff500 said:
Ah yes - the old a 4.6 Rover V8 is too slow...
Approx 250bhp in 1100kg car - so what is your DAILY driver ?
I see this a lot on the RX7 forum where people look down on 300odd bhp cars, when you look at their posts you see their 450bhp RX7 hasn't been on the road for a year and they drive a Mondeo everyday.
I'm guessing you wouldn't hesitate to replace your Rotary with a V block then? Speaking from the RX7 point of view, if you replace the engine I'd assume that the characteristics and charm of the original car would be significantly reduced?Approx 250bhp in 1100kg car - so what is your DAILY driver ?
I see this a lot on the RX7 forum where people look down on 300odd bhp cars, when you look at their posts you see their 450bhp RX7 hasn't been on the road for a year and they drive a Mondeo everyday.
Same goes with the hypothetical question you've asked in your OP. Its taken a car which was built with a certain characteristic and hindering it by replacing it. Being at the side of the road is the Cerbs characteristic. Please dont change it. I like something astetically pleasing when I'm having a wee hoon. :P
I always think of the engine of a car as a the Heart of a car. (ECU the brain, humans are just there for the ride) If you have a heart transplant, even if it prolongs your life, you're never going to be the same as before.
My 2p
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