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GTiFrank

573 posts

70 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th April 2012 quote quote all
LewisR

If front engined FWD is such a poor basis for building a sportscar why has the Megane RS 265 Trophy gone around the Nordschleife faster than a Ferrari 360 Modena? (8.08min and 8.09 mins respectively).

The fact is that many people actually enjoy driving a front drive hatchback, and find it far less intimidating and easy to drive at 10/10th's than a tail happy M5. I am not saying one is better than the other, it just comes down to the drivers preference and ability, lift of oversteer in a FWD hatch is far easier to control IMO (i.e. just pin the throttle) that power oversteer in a RWD sportscar, although arguably drifting a RWD sportscar is more challenging and therefore more rewarding when you get it right.

RenesisEvo

2,382 posts

105 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th April 2012 quote quote all
GTiFrank said:
If front engined FWD is such a poor basis for building a sportscar why has the Megane RS 265 Trophy gone around the Nordschleife faster than a Ferrari 360 Modena? (8.08min and 8.09 mins respectively).
Tyres? 'Ring times are, IMO, meangingless when comparing cars. There are too many variables involved in setting a good lap time, none of which tell you how much fun the car might be to drive.

HairbearTE

585 posts

40 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th April 2012 quote quote all
I've had the 172 cup for 9 years now since new, put 103,000 miles on it so far and am now doing 100 cross country miles a day in it at the moment. Whenever it's dry most of that journey is pure HOONage. I have serviced the car annually since new and repairs that I have done in that time are all normall for the milage, ie. clutch, timing kit, shocks and exhaust have all been replaced. I get 40 mpg on the daily hoon and more than that on the motorway. I have looked at getting a new car, Mazda 3 MPS has come closest, but each time I get back in the cup it just dosen't make sense to change it.

LewisR

536 posts

101 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th April 2012 quote quote all
GTiFrank said:
LewisR

If front engined FWD is such a poor basis for building a sportscar why has the Megane RS 265 Trophy gone around the Nordschleife faster than a Ferrari 360 Modena? (8.08min and 8.09 mins respectively).

The fact is that many people actually enjoy driving a front drive hatchback, and find it far less intimidating and easy to drive at 10/10th's than a tail happy M5. I am not saying one is better than the other, it just comes down to the drivers preference and ability, lift of oversteer in a FWD hatch is far easier to control IMO (i.e. just pin the throttle) that power oversteer in a RWD sportscar, although arguably drifting a RWD sportscar is more challenging and therefore more rewarding when you get it right.
I and many of my friends were possibly the last age group to be brought up on RWD cars as first cars. Mk2 Escorts, Cortinas, Dolomites, Fiat 131s, Vauxhall Chevettes etc. were all parr for the course. Power (what little there was) oversteer was a daily event for most of us. Floor it a bit too much round a wet round-a-bout with a diesel spillage and you'd end up exiting the round-a-bout backwards. A few "practice" sessions on Sainsbury's* car park would teach the driver that one should carefully back off the throttle or steer into the slide and NOT do both at the same time, or you'd likely spin out the other way. Now this coupled with 28k miles-ish a year of pot-holed duel carriageway I do now means that I would really struggle to find much enjoyment out of a stripped out hatchback.

As for the engine... 4-pots just don't do it for me at all AND they need balancer shafts. Straight 5, 6 or V8 just sound SO wonderful.

*Other supermarkets are available. It's illegal now too :-(


Edited by LewisR on Sunday 29th April 17:25

Rs2oo

1,836 posts

84 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th April 2012 quote quote all
LewisR said:
Floor it a bit too much round a wet round-a-bout with a diesel spillage and you'd end up exiting the round-a-bout

Edited by LewisR on Sunday 29th April 17:25
What is a round-a-bout ? Someone patronisingly corrected me earlier in this thread. You know what they say, what
goes around......

or should that be comes-a-round ?

Also, what is a duel carriageway ? A place where two men meet for a pistol fight perhaps ?



Edited by Rs2oo on Sunday 29th April 21:05

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deadmau5

3,142 posts

66 months

[news] 
Sunday 29th April 2012 quote quote all
LewisR said:
I and many of my friends were possibly the last age group to be brought up on RWD cars as first cars. Mk2 Escorts, Cortinas, Dolomites, Fiat 131s, Vauxhall Chevettes etc. were all parr for the course. Power (what little there was) oversteer was a daily event for most of us. Floor it a bit too much round a wet round-a-bout with a diesel spillage and you'd end up exiting the round-a-bout backwards. A few "practice" sessions on Sainsbury's* car park would teach the driver that one should carefully back off the throttle or steer into the slide and NOT do both at the same time, or you'd likely spin out the other way. Now this coupled with 28k miles-ish a year of pot-holed duel carriageway I do now means that I would really struggle to find much enjoyment out of a stripped out hatchback.

As for the engine... 4-pots just don't do it for me at all AND they need balancer shafts. Straight 5, 6 or V8 just sound SO wonderful.

*Other supermarkets are available. It's illegal now too :-(


Edited by LewisR on Sunday 29th April 17:25
So you're not really able to provide a balanced viewpoint if you've only grown up with RWD.

I will agree with you about engine notes though, 6, 8 (my favourite), 10 and 12 cylinders sound better.

LewisR

536 posts

101 months

[news] 
Wednesday 9th May 2012 quote quote all
Oh I am. It's why I chose RWD in the first place. The uninitiated went for Metros, Mk1 Fiestas & Astras.

daveknott5

653 posts

105 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
Love the look of the 200 Cup - just looks so tough, and "up for it".

Has anybody gone from a RWD class leader (like an Elise, Cayman S or M3) and actually preferred the Clio 200? I ask as many people considering a £20k proposition would be mad not to consider these three......

LuS1fer

31,766 posts

131 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
I was raised on RWD and have had plenty of them, including the 460hp one now. is it wrong that I can have far more fun in a good FWD car?

hora

18,801 posts

97 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
Loving that puty-grey colour scheme on the Clio

DanDC5

Original Poster:

8,915 posts

53 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
LuS1fer said:
I was raised on RWD and have had plenty of them, including the 460hp one now. is it wrong that I can have far more fun in a good FWD car?
Not at all.

LewisR

536 posts

101 months

[news] 
Wednesday 16th May 2012 quote quote all
Rs2oo said:
LewisR said:
Floor it a bit too much round a wet round-a-bout with a diesel spillage and you'd end up exiting the round-a-bout

Edited by LewisR on Sunday 29th April 17:25
What is a round-a-bout ? Someone patronisingly corrected me earlier in this thread. You know what they say, what
goes around......

or should that be comes-a-round ?

Also, what is a duel carriageway ? A place where two men meet for a pistol fight perhaps ?



Edited by Rs2oo on Sunday 29th April 21:05
Yeah, my spelling's not as good as my punctuation or grammar but I keep forgetting that. Duel/dual - yep, hold my hand up. "Roundabout" having checked, it is, indeed, one word.

LewisR

536 posts

101 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
Here's one for the Clio fans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GabdqqXDkE

For a horribly long time I thought the Clio had it!

Dragoco

1,300 posts

33 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
That's some committed driving. Great video showing how 200 bhp in the right hands can pretty much keep up with 400.

deadmau5

3,142 posts

66 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
Dragoco said:
That's some committed driving. Great video showing how 200 bhp in the right hands can pretty much keep up with 400.
I reckon the ring taxi will be running the full 507!

LewisR

536 posts

101 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
deadmau5 said:
Dragoco said:
That's some committed driving. Great video showing how 200 bhp in the right hands can pretty much keep up with 400.
I reckon the ring taxi will be running the full 507!
You think I would have posted it if the Clio had overtaken the M5?
The M5 does seem to press on more after about half the vid. and it'd be interesting to know how many were on board the M5 and also the difference in skill between the Clio drive & the M5 driver (Sabine?)

That 4-pot engine doesn't send shivers down my spine like the V10 probably would though!

SimonK

891 posts

111 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
daveknott5 said:
Love the look of the 200 Cup - just looks so tough, and "up for it".

Has anybody gone from a RWD class leader (like an Elise, Cayman S or M3) and actually preferred the Clio 200? I ask as many people considering a £20k proposition would be mad not to consider these three......
I've had an Exige, an Evora, a Clio Trophy and use of someone else's Clio 200 Cup in the past 12 months.

And leaving cost aside, I don't "prefer" the clios or think they're "better". But they are certainly as good in some key areas. The composure of the 200 on track, through the Craner Curves at Donington or over Avon Rise at Combe is stunning and every bit as good as the Exige or Evora. The steering on the Trophy and it's lack of understeer is just as impressive as the Exige and Evora too.

I think the Clios are good "despite" being FWD though not because of it. However, my theory is everything is developed to a fixed budget; so you either develop a car from the ground up like Toyota/Subaru have just done, or instead you spend the budget developing some seriously good suspension etc for an otherwise already developed hatchback. Pros and cons to both.

But at sub Boxster money there's compromises to be made and a Clio 200 is well worth considering however much you might dislike FWD.

deadmau5

3,142 posts

66 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
LewisR said:
deadmau5 said:
Dragoco said:
That's some committed driving. Great video showing how 200 bhp in the right hands can pretty much keep up with 400.
I reckon the ring taxi will be running the full 507!
You think I would have posted it if the Clio had overtaken the M5?
The M5 does seem to press on more after about half the vid. and it'd be interesting to know how many were on board the M5 and also the difference in skill between the Clio drive & the M5 driver (Sabine?)

That 4-pot engine doesn't send shivers down my spine like the V10 probably would though!
The M5 pulled away when the track became straighter. I think there were at least 2 in the Clio.

Hoygo

724 posts

47 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
LewisR said:
You think I would have posted it if the Clio had overtaken the M5?
The M5 does seem to press on more after about half the vid. and it'd be interesting to know how many were on board the M5 and also the difference in skill between the Clio drive & the M5 driver (Sabine?)

That 4-pot engine doesn't send shivers down my spine like the V10 probably would though!
The guy has a lot of videos in his channel with the Clio 200 killing a lot of powerful cars in the ring,and watch his videos with the Megane 250,overtaking different Porsches is like kid play for him,shows what a well sorted FWD with a good driver can do .

DanDC5

Original Poster:

8,915 posts

53 months

[news] 
Thursday 17th May 2012 quote quote all
Hoygo said:
The guy has a lot of videos in his channel with the Clio 200 killing a lot of powerful cars in the ring,and watch his videos with the Megane 250,overtaking different Porsches is like kid play for him,shows what a well sorted FWD with a good driver can do .
Main difference at the Nurburgring is also experience. To be sticking with the Ring Taxi's he must live there!
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