E36 M3....are they still fast?
Discussion
I've had a couple of e30 M3's and they're lovely. They're just not very quick by modern standards. Their outright speed is only half the story though isn't it? Mind you, any e30 is great fun to drive and a few simple upgrades will give e30 M3 levels of performance.
An e36 M3 is obviously going to be quicker but are they as much fun? I imagine so. More power than grip and RWD is a good start.
An e36 M3 is obviously going to be quicker but are they as much fun? I imagine so. More power than grip and RWD is a good start.
s m said:
3 and a half seconds quicker on a 90 second lap of Goodwood according to that article
That is an eternity in reality... Remember, you are comparing a Sport Evo 2 (the pinnacle of E30 M3 development) to a boggo standard E36 M3... If you put a M3 GT in the picture, the difference would be even bigger. As with regards to the 3sec gap - when I go racing I would give up an arm and a leg (may make the driving even more challenging) to find 3 sec a lap from somewhere...I had a 3.0 M3 coupe for a year and loved it. The only expense other than fuel & insurance was at MOT time. 2x front shocks, rear brake lines, 2 rear tyres.
Shocks & tyres go on all cars and the brake lines are a common E36 fault. Replace with copper and never do it again. What I'm saying is they can be totally reliable as long as you get one that's been looked after, you don't need £400 a month bork fund as someone said a few pages back.
My local indy does insp2 services for £340.
Mine certainly felt fast, sounded lovely and would oversteer (a lot)
Shocks & tyres go on all cars and the brake lines are a common E36 fault. Replace with copper and never do it again. What I'm saying is they can be totally reliable as long as you get one that's been looked after, you don't need £400 a month bork fund as someone said a few pages back.
My local indy does insp2 services for £340.
Mine certainly felt fast, sounded lovely and would oversteer (a lot)
Mark34bn said:
My local indy does insp2 services for £340.
Any ideas if that £340 includes actually checking and adjusting the valve clearances as I have a feeling some of these cars that are down on power just haven't had the inspection 2 done properly, maybe ever which may not be helping!nonuts said:
Any ideas if that £340 includes actually checking and adjusting the valve clearances as I have a feeling some of these cars that are down on power just haven't had the inspection 2 done properly, maybe ever which may not be helping!
The quick test is always whether they ask for the car to be delivered the night before. If not, they ain't getting done!Output Flange said:
nonuts said:
Any ideas if that £340 includes actually checking and adjusting the valve clearances as I have a feeling some of these cars that are down on power just haven't had the inspection 2 done properly, maybe ever which may not be helping!
The quick test is always whether they ask for the car to be delivered the night before. If not, they ain't getting done!I dunno if I'd call a 328i Sport asthmatic so much as 'restricted' but assuming your current car is in decent shape, rust-free, mechanically well-maintained, reliable and so forth then I would be far more inclined to spend my money on bringing out some of the M52's untapped potential - de-restricting or replacing the airbox, swapping the intake manifold and remapping the ECU frees up a whole load of ponies, fit a Z3 short shifter and an M3 steering wheel, treat it to new Bilstien shocks and springs or new window seals and a de-rust and you should have a pretty decent motor.
Sticking with the devil you know would seem a better course of action than buying another possibly slightly leggy E36 that may hide more mechanical woes and will still probably want a few bob spent on it to bring it up to scratch. I too subscribe to the 'built not bought' ethos with older cars like this, much more fun to feel how the car evolves and reacts as you add bits/make changes/repair things. I've only had my 328i a couple of months but I've done a few of the above and the car's really starting to come alive.
Then again I suppose if you have a decent budget and can afford to buy a very clean low-miler with impeccable history, there's no reason in theory why you shouldn't do that too, but I think when it comes to the point, the differences between a properly fettled 328is and an M3 really only become apparent in track-style circumstances, plus the 328i is cheaper to run in terms of servicing and insurance. Last but not least, if you go for a model number delete and a set of M3 wing mirrors only really observant/anal BMW geeks will be able to tell the difference anyway...
Sticking with the devil you know would seem a better course of action than buying another possibly slightly leggy E36 that may hide more mechanical woes and will still probably want a few bob spent on it to bring it up to scratch. I too subscribe to the 'built not bought' ethos with older cars like this, much more fun to feel how the car evolves and reacts as you add bits/make changes/repair things. I've only had my 328i a couple of months but I've done a few of the above and the car's really starting to come alive.
Then again I suppose if you have a decent budget and can afford to buy a very clean low-miler with impeccable history, there's no reason in theory why you shouldn't do that too, but I think when it comes to the point, the differences between a properly fettled 328is and an M3 really only become apparent in track-style circumstances, plus the 328i is cheaper to run in terms of servicing and insurance. Last but not least, if you go for a model number delete and a set of M3 wing mirrors only really observant/anal BMW geeks will be able to tell the difference anyway...
rallycross said:
Valve clearance is not included in a £340 service!
But it does not need done that often and it's rare to ever see a bill for it in the service history on these cars so I suspect not many people get it done.
I don't know where to start with that.But it does not need done that often and it's rare to ever see a bill for it in the service history on these cars so I suspect not many people get it done.
It is not part of the schedule of the inspection 2 for a joke... the garage (which I trust) that did the inspection 2 on my M3 reckoned they hadn't been checked for ages and they have had a number of e46s in that look like it's not being done. I just don't understand how people buy these cars and then don't look after the bit of the car that makes it what it is.
nonuts said:
I don't know where to start with that.
it is.
Well if you are buying one budget £350 to get it done and if they can't show you a bill for having had it done, knock it off the price as that is job number one!it is.
it will go lot better and run much smoother after if it's not been done for a while!
nonuts said:
I don't know where to start with that.
It is not part of the schedule of the inspection 2 for a joke... the garage (which I trust) that did the inspection 2 on my M3 reckoned they hadn't been checked for ages and they have had a number of e46s in that look like it's not being done. I just don't understand how people buy these cars and then don't look after the bit of the car that makes it what it is.
Because they want cheap bling - as long it says M3 on the back and they can tell everyone they've got an Emm Free innit, they'll continue to buy the cheap grotty ones, fit cheap tyres and do the bare minimum at service time before punting it on to somebody else whilst saying how cheap they are to run.It is not part of the schedule of the inspection 2 for a joke... the garage (which I trust) that did the inspection 2 on my M3 reckoned they hadn't been checked for ages and they have had a number of e46s in that look like it's not being done. I just don't understand how people buy these cars and then don't look after the bit of the car that makes it what it is.
It's a real shame for enthusiasts to watch happen but sadly it happens to every decent car and short of BMW themselves starting a program of scooping up all the older cars when the last nice owner wants rid it will always happen.
Down here in Devon E46 M3's are becoming more and more common. They can often be found in the partworn tyre place on the main road into Plymouth
sulli said:
My E36 Evo was as quick as an E46 on the road - the E46 M3 is still classed as a fast car, so the Evo is too. I think mine was putting out close to the claimed 320bhp, it was a low miler and well maintained.
Great car, great engine and for £3k well worth it!
Spot on. The 46 is very powerful and grunty, but the 36 just feels more juicy, like it has a far better power to weight. Parked next to each other it's quite a bit smaller.Great car, great engine and for £3k well worth it!
sulli said:
My E36 Evo was as quick as an E46 on the road - the E46 M3 is still classed as a fast car, so the Evo is too. I think mine was putting out close to the claimed 320bhp, it was a low miler and well maintained.
Great car, great engine and for £3k well worth it!
These are the sort of things I like to read Great car, great engine and for £3k well worth it!
Very positive.
RemyMartin said:
sulli said:
My E36 Evo was as quick as an E46 on the road - the E46 M3 is still classed as a fast car, so the Evo is too. I think mine was putting out close to the claimed 320bhp, it was a low miler and well maintained.
Great car, great engine and for £3k well worth it!
These are the sort of things I like to read Great car, great engine and for £3k well worth it!
Very positive.
I've had an e36 M3 Evo and an e46 M3.
I've been on track with both of them. I have 'raced' with an e46 in the e36 and vice versa.
I can say for certain that there is virtually no straight line performance difference between a good M3 Evo and an e46 M3.
So in answer to the original question, yes, they are most definitely still fast.
For your info, here's a video taken from my e46 M3 with an e36 in front of me. He was holding me up through the bends, but as you can see the straightline performance meant I couldn't even attempt to overtake until he pulled over and let me past: (see 2:20 for the drag race as we pull onto the start straight)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8h4ugO3sho
I've been on track with both of them. I have 'raced' with an e46 in the e36 and vice versa.
I can say for certain that there is virtually no straight line performance difference between a good M3 Evo and an e46 M3.
So in answer to the original question, yes, they are most definitely still fast.
For your info, here's a video taken from my e46 M3 with an e36 in front of me. He was holding me up through the bends, but as you can see the straightline performance meant I couldn't even attempt to overtake until he pulled over and let me past: (see 2:20 for the drag race as we pull onto the start straight)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8h4ugO3sho
RemyMartin said:
VinceFox said:
OP, whereabouts are you based? Maybe someone on here with an evo could take you out in theirs?
Bagshot, Surrey Oh and the rit fuel makes a huge difference. On the rare occasions ive had to put less than 98 in mine it's still run, but it's felt flat as anything.
Yay, my thread is here...
I've hankered after an E36 M3 for quite a while and finally took the plunge in January. It was the first one I saw. It had been badly barried, and was a complete disaster. Sold a month later for a £500 loss. Stupid boy.
My second one's lovely. M3 Evolution convertible, cosmos black with rare Modena leather. 109k on the clock but most of those miles are in the last 3 yrs with previous owner commuting from Surrey to Telford.
Thinking of buying one? Do have a look at what I've spent on it since purchase.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/members/showcar.asp?c...
You know what? I don't care. It's a solid car which is well on the way to being mechanically perfect. Next on the list are the rear bushes in September and then that's pretty much it. As others have alluded to, I don't think the valve clearances are done by many owners- Mine certainly hadn't been done for several years. But with a new VANOS, fluids all round and the clearances/plugs done the car goes like a scalded cat. Wonderfully smooth, revvy and sounds brilliant at full chat.
They are potentially not a budget proposition. But a lot of the ridiculous horror stories are just that. Fully recon'd and uprated VANOS units can be had, fully fitted, for £850- Other than that it's nothing particularly unusual to go wrong. Running costs, I'm given to believe, and potentially scary bills are so, so much less than E46 M3s.
For the price, I think they are great. Standard, standard, standard is the key. Sure, the straight line performance might not be earth-shattering by current standards but as a B-road blaster with a very decent turn of speed it's hard to beat.
E36 M3s are starting to get quite rare on the roads, nice un-barried ones less so. It's nice to be different!
I've hankered after an E36 M3 for quite a while and finally took the plunge in January. It was the first one I saw. It had been badly barried, and was a complete disaster. Sold a month later for a £500 loss. Stupid boy.
My second one's lovely. M3 Evolution convertible, cosmos black with rare Modena leather. 109k on the clock but most of those miles are in the last 3 yrs with previous owner commuting from Surrey to Telford.
Thinking of buying one? Do have a look at what I've spent on it since purchase.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/members/showcar.asp?c...
You know what? I don't care. It's a solid car which is well on the way to being mechanically perfect. Next on the list are the rear bushes in September and then that's pretty much it. As others have alluded to, I don't think the valve clearances are done by many owners- Mine certainly hadn't been done for several years. But with a new VANOS, fluids all round and the clearances/plugs done the car goes like a scalded cat. Wonderfully smooth, revvy and sounds brilliant at full chat.
They are potentially not a budget proposition. But a lot of the ridiculous horror stories are just that. Fully recon'd and uprated VANOS units can be had, fully fitted, for £850- Other than that it's nothing particularly unusual to go wrong. Running costs, I'm given to believe, and potentially scary bills are so, so much less than E46 M3s.
For the price, I think they are great. Standard, standard, standard is the key. Sure, the straight line performance might not be earth-shattering by current standards but as a B-road blaster with a very decent turn of speed it's hard to beat.
E36 M3s are starting to get quite rare on the roads, nice un-barried ones less so. It's nice to be different!
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