E36 M3....are they still fast?

[300bhp/ton]

StottyZr said:

k15tox said:

doogz said:

Maybe I'm missing something, but 0-100 in a 123d is 17.4s? A 3.2 M3 will do it 4.5 seconds quicker?

Must be remapped......

DPF delete as well as a remap, DXB would be proud

With 204hp 1/4 is 15.2, should be doing ~14 now.

But a 13.8 vs a 15.2 is huge at the 1320, not too mention what your trap speeds might be. Even if you are now in the 14's, the reality is the M3 would be car or bus lengths ahead.

[300bhp/ton]

StottyZr said:

doogz said:

StottyZr said:

Should be ~275, needs a rolling road to certify and it does seem a little optimisitc to me.

Just a bit!

Would be interesting to hear what it actually makes though! Torque at max power is about 245lbft as standard, your car would need to be making more like 330lbft at 4400rpm!

Impressive if it's correct.

295lb or 400nm standard new quoted figures at 520nm. I think their test car made 272hp with the same mods.

I'll post a readers cars once I've been on Santa Pod and had a RR.

But yes, the point I was trying to make is the M3 is still quick, but something a lightly modified hatch will most likely keep with it. Saying that, a 53 plate Cupra R with 290hp will probably cost more than the M3

Which shows the M3 is great value for money! Go for it OP.

Is that 272hp a real 272hp? As in did they take the engine out of the car and slap it on an engine dyno rather than a rolling road chassis dyno? If not then the figure ain't worth jack tbh. Not too mention there's a zillion other factors that can over inflate RR figures.

Also a 123d is hardly a typical diesel hatch, in fact it's pretty unique in it's set up and cost a fair chunk more than any used e36 M3 to buy. And if modding is your thing... well you can mod an M3 too.

[flatline84]

123d is incredibly harsh aurally though, you actually need to put a finger in your ear standing next to it - sounds like a bag of rocks being grounded and pounded into sand.

[e21Mark]

s m said:

e21Mark said:

flatline84 said:

If I was on a budget Id honestly pick a straight 3.0 over a 3.2

The 5-speed is bulletproof and the engine more reliable. Its also plenty fast, 62 mph arriving in 6.0 seconds.

My e21 is quicker than that.

Link to test?

I'll post something within a day or so. E36 3.0 M3 power/weight ratio is 193bhp / ton. My E21 has 211 bhp / ton. Please don't think I'm saying my E21 equates to an M3 though, as it clearly doesn't. It'll make an M3 owner think twice as we join the motorway though. People don't expect not to be able to pull away from a 30 year old 3 series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqslUuiPtVc

[chippy17]

flatline84 said:

Great reply thanks!

pleasure

[StevieB]

The question was "is the M3 still quick". The answer i think is a definite "yes"

Ignore all this talk of modified four pot diesels being as quick as your M3,coz its total bks and basically these M3s still shift. In the 1993 Autocar Road test, a Standard M3 286 took less than 30 seconds to hit 140 MPH. An M3 EVO SMG did the standing KM in 24.5 secs @ 136 MPH. By comparison a 335d tested in 2008 by Performance car took 31.5 seconds to hit 140, so yes they are still pretty darned quick.

[e21Mark]

StevieB said:

The question was "is the M3 still quick". The answer i think is a definite "yes"

Agreed

[s m]

e21Mark said:

s m said:

e21Mark said:

flatline84 said:

If I was on a budget Id honestly pick a straight 3.0 over a 3.2

The 5-speed is bulletproof and the engine more reliable. Its also plenty fast, 62 mph arriving in 6.0 seconds.

My e21 is quicker than that.

Link to test?

I'll post something within a day or so. E36 3.0 M3 power/weight ratio is 193bhp / ton. My E21 has 211 bhp / ton. Please don't think I'm saying my E21 equates to an M3 though, as it clearly doesn't. It'll make an M3 owner think twice as we join the motorway though. People don't expect not to be able to pull away from a 30 year old 3 series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqslUuiPtVc

I bet it goes well - I had an E21 323i for a couple of years - just the std 143bhp ....a friend had a Hartge one with about 170bhp so I can imagine yours is quite lively

[e21Mark]

s m said:

e21Mark said:

s m said:

e21Mark said:

flatline84 said:

If I was on a budget Id honestly pick a straight 3.0 over a 3.2

The 5-speed is bulletproof and the engine more reliable. Its also plenty fast, 62 mph arriving in 6.0 seconds.

My e21 is quicker than that.

Link to test?

I'll post something within a day or so. E36 3.0 M3 power/weight ratio is 193bhp / ton. My E21 has 211 bhp / ton. Please don't think I'm saying my E21 equates to an M3 though, as it clearly doesn't. It'll make an M3 owner think twice as we join the motorway though. People don't expect not to be able to pull away from a 30 year old 3 series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqslUuiPtVc

I bet it goes well - I had an E21 323i for a couple of years - just the std 143bhp ....a friend had a Hartge one with about 170bhp so I can imagine yours is quite lively

I absolutely love it. I've been messing with it over the past couple of years and apart from the engine swap it has coilovers, Sierra Cosworth brakes, e12 LSD & staggered Minilites. It's no garage queen either. I use it every day and do about 15k miles a year. It sounds quite nice too.

2 min 55 sec

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh5Er2ZmRwo

[iguana]

flatline84 said:

Id be interested in the view of someone who has had both a healthy 3.0 and a 3.2, rather than a bunch of owners of either model coming on here to defend their car.

I've had 4x 3.0s & 1x 3.2 oh & also an e36 4.0 v8 & e36 328 tracker

I've thrashed all over Europe in 'em & tracked all over Europe & Uk also.

Personally I prefer 3.0s, a good 3.2 yes can be quicker than a 3.0, bad ones are not tho, 3.2 feels more mid range urge tho than top end & some feel really flat.

If you are tracking yes evo twin pick ups is good, but are many 3.0s tracking heavily on slicks without with no issues, my old one must have done 20 odd trackdays on 3.0 sump no probs, many on slicks, doing the the BMW motorsport oil in head restrictor mod on 3.0s is good idea tho.

Are they still fast, hmm 160mph on gps & 8 min 'ring btgs on road rubber all day long on 140k milers with just budget mods is not too bad.

All are too soft as standard, but easily sorted, & ok the steering lock is a tad long & feel is a bit numb- its no 944/968/Elise/Caterham/MX5 in that regard thats for sure, but running decnet neg camber does help tho & yes a tad lardy & they need a bit of a diet.
However is still IMHO there nowt out there that offers what an e36 M3 does for even close to the same budget, no idea why they are worth so little & the vastly over rated IMHO e30 M3 is loved so much.

[TOENHEEL]

An M3 regardless of age will always be an M3 and a million times more special than any diesel..as we're heading into an era of turbo engined m cars I would put a decent amount of money on the line that E36 and E46 M3's that are tidy in years to come will be worth a few quid with the last of the iconic straight six.

[e21Mark]

iguana said:

no idea why they are worth so little & the vastly over rated IMHO e30 M3 is loved so much.

Homologation special tax I reckon? That, and the amount of magazine column inches devoted to them that people seem to read and take as gospel. Don't get me wrong, I really liked mine, but it wasn't as good as everyone kept telling me it would be. As a road car anyway. That said, a nicely built e30 is still a nice track car despite its age.

Just my opinion.

[flatline84]

iguana said:

I've had 4x 3.0s & 1x 3.2 oh & also an e36 4.0 v8 & e36 328 tracker

I've thrashed all over Europe in 'em & tracked all over Europe & Uk also.

Personally I prefer 3.0s, a good 3.2 yes can be quicker than a 3.0, bad ones are not tho, 3.2 feels more mid range urge tho than top end & some feel really flat.

If you are tracking yes evo twin pick ups is good, but are many 3.0s tracking heavily on slicks without with no issues, my old one must have done 20 odd trackdays on 3.0 sump no probs, many on slicks, doing the the BMW motorsport oil in head restrictor mod on 3.0s is good idea tho.

Are they still fast, hmm 160mph on gps & 8 min 'ring btgs on road rubber all day long on 140k milers with just budget mods is not too bad.

All are too soft as standard, but easily sorted, & ok the steering lock is a tad long & feel is a bit numb- its no 944/968/Elise/Caterham/MX5 in that regard thats for sure, but running decnet neg camber does help tho & yes a tad lardy & they need a bit of a diet.
However is still IMHO there nowt out there that offers what an e36 M3 does for even close to the same budget, no idea why they are worth so little & the vastly over rated IMHO e30 M3 is loved so much.

A owner of both who preferred the 3.0 over the 3.2 - who would have thought

[s m]

e21Mark said:

I absolutely love it. I've been messing with it over the past couple of years and apart from the engine swap it has coilovers, Sierra Cosworth brakes, e12 LSD & staggered Minilites. It's no garage queen either. I use it every day and do about 15k miles a year. It sounds quite nice too.

2 min 55 sec

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh5Er2ZmRwo

That is nice - I've realised now that I've seen your car in one of the marque mags or similar

[AMH82]

Good topic, I was wondering the exact same thing last couple of days. Not so much are they still 'fast', I can see that unless you drive supercars that they are (on paper), but more wondering if they can still cut it as a high performance car.

I nearly went for one of these after selling my 850R last year. but convicned myself I needed something cheaper to run, so I went for a 182 FF. I love this, I really do, but there have been a couple of recent occasions where I needed it to be a couple of feet longer, and also, it's only going to depreciate to the point of shed money the longher I keep it.

Seeing that what I could sell the 182 for would almost cover what a lot of M3's are priced at now has got me seriously thinking about selling the 182 and my Eunos, and running an M3 as a weekend car with occasional daily use (I live 2 miles from work so don't really need to use it in the week).

To anyone who has looked lately, are the ones priced between £3-4k actually any good? From the ads I've seen plenty of low miles, apparently rust free and looked after examples for less than £4k anyway.

Is the saloon usually cheaper? I kind of fancy the saloon as it's a little less obvious, and also 4 doors more practical, but I hear they don't have folding rear seats usually - is that right?

Also, the 5sp vs 6sp issue, how bad is the 6sp box, and realistically how likely to break? We have a 330ci as well, and the 5sp box in that isn't the nicest (especially comapred to the Eunos), but it's OK, apart from sticky 5th gear gate.

Anyone local to Sudbury, Suffolk fancy taking me for a spin to make my mind up!!??

[e21Mark]

The black, high mileage one I saw (link is a few pages back) was a really nice car and had all the worrying bits taken care of, such a VANOS. These engines manage big mileages and should present no problems, so long as well maintained. I hesitated, so missed this one. I still plan to get one though, but am simply waiting for the right car. I guess it's like anything, just buy the best you can afford, but they are out there for the sort of money you mention.

[AMH82]

That one did look pretty good, despite 170k. As mentioned, if his advert was half decent he might have had more interest!!

I've been looking around and there is a lot of choice for around £4k. Some looking like reasonable examples.

Do we reckon the market has hit rock bottom for these (prices have been low for a few years), I doubt a cheap one would appreciate in the short term, but at least if it's in good condition, it ought to hold it's value - no?

Next hurdle will be insurance quote, now I've hit 30 I can't be doing with ridiculous quotes, my 182 is nice & cheap, the Eunos less so, but that's down to the mods. Still annoys me though!!

[M3John]

RemyMartin said:

VinceFox said:

OP, whereabouts are you based? Maybe someone on here with an evo could take you out in theirs?

Bagshot, Surrey

OP, if you like you are more than welcome to come have a look at mine and we'll go for a run out if you like as I'm in Canary Wharf so not a million miles from you.

RemyMartin said:

sulli said:

My E36 Evo was as quick as an E46 on the road - the E46 M3 is still classed as a fast car, so the Evo is too. I think mine was putting out close to the claimed 320bhp, it was a low miler and well maintained.
Great car, great engine and for £3k well worth it!

These are the sort of things I like to read

Very positive.

Also what this chap above says is spot on. I bought mine off a friend who went out and bought a brand new e46 M3. We compared them and honestly there was nothing in it performance wise - the cars are very evenly matched.

I've a good mate of mine here on PH who goes by the name of Cactussed who's had 2 e36 M3's. He's now also got a 355 so can verify this, your initial question is "are they still fast?". Would you call a 355 fast? If so then you'll be surprised to know that there is honestly very little (practically nothing) in the way of performance between these two until you get deep in 3 figure speeds.

Bang for your buck, you'd be very hard pressed (nigh on impossible) to get a better performing, all round motor car for the money than an e36 M3.

[nonuts]

M3John said:

Bang for your buck, you'd be very hard pressed (nigh on impossible) to get a better performing, all round motor car for the money than an e36 M3.

Good summary of the 15 pages so far there John!

[M3John]

nonuts said:

M3John said:

Bang for your buck, you'd be very hard pressed (nigh on impossible) to get a better performing, all round motor car for the money than an e36 M3.

Good summary of the 15 pages so far there John!

Cheers Ben. Was a bit late in finding this topic. Been away from PH for a good bit recently so only just skimmed through it all.

Slightly off topic but, you out Saturday?