E36 M3....are they still fast?
Discussion
I enjoyed all 3 of my previous M3's, if you have a certain level of OCD they can be a bit expensive to keep in top order. They all felt quite rapid, but wouldn't call them really fast, to be honest some of the more recent turbo hot hatches will be faster,VXR ashtrays, focus RS et al, even the old school VAG 1.8T units with a suitable remap are not exactly vanishing in the rear view.
I would however say that the E36 M3 is currently occupying a almost unique market position at the 3-5K pricepoint where for that money it's quite difficult to buy this much engineering excellence and overall performance. Prices will rise i'm sure over the next few years, particularly the 3.0 litre GT's and Evo imola individuals (GT2).
It is worth getting one checked over by a specialist if you can before you buy, things like Vanos and Air con condensors, rear brake pipes, rear subframe bushes, SMG pumps and others are all acknowledged as weak points and can cost a few quid to put right.
As for 3 litre vs 3.2, i have had both, the 3.2 was a far better road car as standard proposition, in modified/track form not quite so much difference.
I keep looking at that Imola red one in the classifieds, keep trying to tell myself to show some imagination and buy something else, but it is tempting.
I would however say that the E36 M3 is currently occupying a almost unique market position at the 3-5K pricepoint where for that money it's quite difficult to buy this much engineering excellence and overall performance. Prices will rise i'm sure over the next few years, particularly the 3.0 litre GT's and Evo imola individuals (GT2).
It is worth getting one checked over by a specialist if you can before you buy, things like Vanos and Air con condensors, rear brake pipes, rear subframe bushes, SMG pumps and others are all acknowledged as weak points and can cost a few quid to put right.
As for 3 litre vs 3.2, i have had both, the 3.2 was a far better road car as standard proposition, in modified/track form not quite so much difference.
I keep looking at that Imola red one in the classifieds, keep trying to tell myself to show some imagination and buy something else, but it is tempting.
Just to add my 2p. My e36 Evo made all 317bhp and was rapid. Rapid enough to manage a faster top speed at VMax than a few e46 M3s and the same as a 135i which was meant to be running 400bhp (I'm guessing it wasn't).
They are also great fun to drive and the noise is
especially when going past 7,000 rpm.
If I had space and the money I'd have the best one I could find to go with with M5.
They are also great fun to drive and the noise is
especially when going past 7,000 rpm. If I had space and the money I'd have the best one I could find to go with with M5.
I went from a 225hp 328 sport with Eibach suspension to an E36 3.0 M3, to an E46 M3 and by far and away my favourite car was the E46. The 3.0 just didn't feel nearly as quick as the E46, although admittedly the E46 M3 had 60,000 miles less on the clock.
All that said, I drove a friend's E36 M3 Evo on track with several mods including an exhaust, filter, remap, radiator fan delete and a few other bits it was making an honest 320hp and it felt roughly similar to my standard E46 M3. So they can feel very, very good.
The Evo that I drove was beautiful. It held it's head up high on that trackday and it was gloriously easy to powerslide it through most turns, which made it bloody good fun. The M cars are special in a way that 'Sports' are not. A major attraction for me is that all M cars have LSDs (I think) whereas the last non-M BMW that had an LSD was the 328 sport of 1996 (or so I believe).
I reckon you should find a good Evo and go for it.
All that said, I drove a friend's E36 M3 Evo on track with several mods including an exhaust, filter, remap, radiator fan delete and a few other bits it was making an honest 320hp and it felt roughly similar to my standard E46 M3. So they can feel very, very good.
The Evo that I drove was beautiful. It held it's head up high on that trackday and it was gloriously easy to powerslide it through most turns, which made it bloody good fun. The M cars are special in a way that 'Sports' are not. A major attraction for me is that all M cars have LSDs (I think) whereas the last non-M BMW that had an LSD was the 328 sport of 1996 (or so I believe).
I reckon you should find a good Evo and go for it.
I love the E36 M3. As a package I think it's near impossible to beat for the price.
It's pretty quick out the box (I couldn't care less if a remapped diesel is faster), but there is such a choice of mods for them now that you can tailor it to be exactly what you want using tried-and-tested parts.
But, most importantly, that noise...
It's pretty quick out the box (I couldn't care less if a remapped diesel is faster), but there is such a choice of mods for them now that you can tailor it to be exactly what you want using tried-and-tested parts.
But, most importantly, that noise...
I've got a M3 Evo at the minute and the missus drives a 328i Sport. The difference in performance isn't as massive as the stats suggest (mainly because the 328s always feel stronger than you'd expect for the figures), the difference is mainly over 5krpm. I still prefer the M3 though, the noise it makes at full chat is pretty awesome!
I had a MR2 Turbo previously too, I swapped it for a 328i Sport. Quick as the MR2 was its lack of bite on turn in used to annoy me, I didn't want to drive around a cars flaws whereas the E36 (when in good fettle) always feels pretty neutral to me.
I had a MR2 Turbo previously too, I swapped it for a 328i Sport. Quick as the MR2 was its lack of bite on turn in used to annoy me, I didn't want to drive around a cars flaws whereas the E36 (when in good fettle) always feels pretty neutral to me.
I'd look for an Evo if a road car. There are far more changes to it than just the engine, compared to the non-Evo. Changes that were introduced by BMW after criticism of the non-Evo, that it was a badge engineered 330i. Still a fine car and more than capable if being tracked (given that you'd be replacing so many components anyway). All this talk of differences in BHP on cars that are at least 12years old are pretty irrelevant.
Ultimately you need to drive some examples and decide whether they float your boat or not. if you are used to loping around with a welly load of torque under your right foot at all times, then they may not be for you. If however, you like having a 3.2 straight-six with 300+bhp, that switches into a race-engine at 5k and screams to 100mph in 3rd at 7.5k then you might consider one.
There isn't really anything at the price point that can touch it as an all round package. Sure you can buy a similar priced Jap car and play with the boost but it won't have the class, build quality, one of the all time classic NA engines and didn't cost £40k+ new.
Drive one and you'll know whether you want one or not pretty quickly. Remember though that these cars are at least 12years old and may have had many owners, so one with worn suspensions, bushes, gear linkages, needing a service and alignment will not be representative of how the cars really drive.
Finally, if it to be a road car, it's probably worth considering that they are as capable of wafting 4 adults across Europe in comfort with a boot full of gear whilst still returning high 20's mpg (6 speed) as they are as hooning around your favourite track. They really are a great all-rounder when maintained and cared for.
Ultimately you need to drive some examples and decide whether they float your boat or not. if you are used to loping around with a welly load of torque under your right foot at all times, then they may not be for you. If however, you like having a 3.2 straight-six with 300+bhp, that switches into a race-engine at 5k and screams to 100mph in 3rd at 7.5k then you might consider one.
There isn't really anything at the price point that can touch it as an all round package. Sure you can buy a similar priced Jap car and play with the boost but it won't have the class, build quality, one of the all time classic NA engines and didn't cost £40k+ new.
Drive one and you'll know whether you want one or not pretty quickly. Remember though that these cars are at least 12years old and may have had many owners, so one with worn suspensions, bushes, gear linkages, needing a service and alignment will not be representative of how the cars really drive.
Finally, if it to be a road car, it's probably worth considering that they are as capable of wafting 4 adults across Europe in comfort with a boot full of gear whilst still returning high 20's mpg (6 speed) as they are as hooning around your favourite track. They really are a great all-rounder when maintained and cared for.
flatline84 said:
Anyway what are we arguing about. You can add 5 turbos to a diesel and it still wouldnt be fun. You get a shove in the back at 3500 RPM and thats it.
If I was buying a car right now (when is that ever off the cards? 
) then I would take the petrol all day long, not arguing about that.Just wanted to add that the days of one short shove in the back from a turbo diesel are gone if you are buying a 'fast' diesel now. Some of these high powered multi turbo diesels will now be giving more of a turbo petrol response, just without the same noise! Expensive to fix when it all goes wrong though.
exgtt said:
Aaargh they are the perfect car for me atm. Just cant get a quote for insurance under £2.4k! (30, 3yr ncb, 3 points) E39 m5's are cheaper to cover and hot Subarus are half the price. Gutted!
Because of their low price for the last few years they've attracted younger buyers who have maybe crashed more?I had my first E36 M3 Evo on the back of an Audi 8L S3 and was a bit disappointed with the engine characteristics, but loved the handling once I'd polybushed it, fitted some coilovers and ARBs. I had to sell it to fund some work on my house, but I now have another after swapping my Impreza for it with a friend. For some reason, I'm in love with the engine this time. I think people coming from modern hot hatches think the E36s aren't all that fast, but the reality is that its the actual driving experience that counts. I love my current M3 and there's little I can think of swapping it for without spending almost double.
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