RE: Tell me I'm wrong: Aston Martin V12 Vantage
Discussion
Zod said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
E38Ross said:
I'd rather it without the bonnet vents, other than that I love it.
likewise, its a beautiful car with a stunning V12, it does not need the vents
If only they were body coloured though!
I'm entirely unsuprised by the fact that Dan's balletic pirouette into the boonies involved a crest!
Both the DB9 and Vantage series suffer from a poor rear suspension design that fails to control tyre kinematics well over sharp vertical inputs. It's been their from the very beginning, but making the car stiffer and lower (and laterally more stiff to a degree) has gradually masked the problem, but it's still their. Compared to something like an M3 the rear end is nothing like as confidence inspiring, with large changes in lateral stiffness and tyre deflection with changine loadings. Quite why AML have never fixed it is beyond me (just copy the BMW suspension for example!).
They also persevere with a differential locking values that are (imo) completely ass-about-face (probably to pass pointless low split Mu camber tests). The absolute first thing i'd do is get the diff flipped around (easy & requires no extra parts etc) to reverse the positive and negative locking ramps!
So, slightly bizarrely, you have a car that has more potential for yaw instability, and a higher yaw gain, when driven slowly and tentatively, then when "taken by the scruff of the neck" and driven with much more positive throttle inputs. On a test track, with lots of positive throttle the car is fine, out in the real world i give it a very very heathly margine indeed!
(on top of all that the TCS (even when working) is frankely a bit pony compared to the Bosch systems, like you'd find in the M3 etc)
SO having said all that, would i like one. HELL YEAH! (i'd just make sure i had a nice and robust vehicle "recovery" policy in place........... ;-)
Both the DB9 and Vantage series suffer from a poor rear suspension design that fails to control tyre kinematics well over sharp vertical inputs. It's been their from the very beginning, but making the car stiffer and lower (and laterally more stiff to a degree) has gradually masked the problem, but it's still their. Compared to something like an M3 the rear end is nothing like as confidence inspiring, with large changes in lateral stiffness and tyre deflection with changine loadings. Quite why AML have never fixed it is beyond me (just copy the BMW suspension for example!).
They also persevere with a differential locking values that are (imo) completely ass-about-face (probably to pass pointless low split Mu camber tests). The absolute first thing i'd do is get the diff flipped around (easy & requires no extra parts etc) to reverse the positive and negative locking ramps!
So, slightly bizarrely, you have a car that has more potential for yaw instability, and a higher yaw gain, when driven slowly and tentatively, then when "taken by the scruff of the neck" and driven with much more positive throttle inputs. On a test track, with lots of positive throttle the car is fine, out in the real world i give it a very very heathly margine indeed!
(on top of all that the TCS (even when working) is frankely a bit pony compared to the Bosch systems, like you'd find in the M3 etc)
SO having said all that, would i like one. HELL YEAH! (i'd just make sure i had a nice and robust vehicle "recovery" policy in place........... ;-)
Lunablack said:
^^^^^^^^^
No idea what that's all about.... But surely if it was that bad, every owner would have visited a hedge backwards by now and it'd be all over the net, what a crap handling car it is...
The fact that that's not so points to operator error in this case..
It's not "bad" as such, but it's there, plain as day, if you are a good enough driver to be able to analyse how the car responds to your inputs. It's one of the reasons the V8 and DB series of cars is always marked down in "drivers car" type tests. In simple terms the chassis response (primeraily at the back) is non linear and does not inspire confidence. The Jag rear suspension, for example, has less ultimate lateral G capability (and is a LOT less laterally stiff) but it remains linear even in-extremis.No idea what that's all about.... But surely if it was that bad, every owner would have visited a hedge backwards by now and it'd be all over the net, what a crap handling car it is...
The fact that that's not so points to operator error in this case..
I had a 4.3 vantage for a while. Lovely car, just not quite fast enough. I should imagine the 4.7 is just about spot on. It was the balance I liked best and it's ability to change direction. I can only see a much bigger and heavier V12 engine as being detrimental to that great balance.
I had a 4.3 vantage for a while. Lovely car, just not quite fast enough. I should imagine the 4.7 is just about spot on. It was the balance I liked best and it's ability to change direction. I can only see a much bigger and heavier V12 engine as being detrimental to that great balance.
TheOrangePeril said:
cheddar said:
George H said:
It's hardly slow now is it? Faster than 85% of cars on the road.
My experience and 2p, for what its worth...
Yes Dan, you asked and you are wrong. I am privileged to have one and love it like the 1970's super-bikes (H1A/CBX/Etc.).
IMO it's bloody fantastic...a keeper because there won't be many more like it...
And to date - no hedge......but showing respect where its needed....
Yes Dan, you asked and you are wrong. I am privileged to have one and love it like the 1970's super-bikes (H1A/CBX/Etc.).
IMO it's bloody fantastic...a keeper because there won't be many more like it...
And to date - no hedge......but showing respect where its needed....
I've been fortunate enough to own a V8V (4.7 Coupe, Sports Pack, manual 'box) for 2.5 years. It's wonderful, a genuinely great driver's car in addition to being amazing to look at and to listen to. It is fast, with plenty of power and torque, and the handling is superb in the way that a very-well-balanced front-engined rear-drive car's handling can be. I love that it is a car that has to be driven. It may well be the "sweet spot" in the Vantage range.
I've driven the V12V, on a day probably just too cold for the tires to really work well. It was an absolute blast. It needed to be respected, certainly, and the rewards were huge. Sure, wheelspin was easily found -- it's a 510 hp rear-drive car on Corsa tires on a cool day. LOVED it. Would I rather own it than my V8V? I'm not sure. I prefer the looks of the V8V (though I still love the V12V's looks), the sound is great in both, the Sports Pack V8 has a better ride and still handles extremely well. Of course, the V12 is faster, but can I actually use that extra performance on the road? Almost certainly not -- opportunities to use all the performance of the 4.7 V8 are sadly rare.
And yet... The V12V is just COOL. It is an absolute thrill ride, and it isn't infested with electronics everywhere that do more and more of the driving for you. It may well be the last of its kind of car, which would be a huge shame. The challenge adds to the thrill. MASSIVELY desirable, covetable car.
I've driven the V12V, on a day probably just too cold for the tires to really work well. It was an absolute blast. It needed to be respected, certainly, and the rewards were huge. Sure, wheelspin was easily found -- it's a 510 hp rear-drive car on Corsa tires on a cool day. LOVED it. Would I rather own it than my V8V? I'm not sure. I prefer the looks of the V8V (though I still love the V12V's looks), the sound is great in both, the Sports Pack V8 has a better ride and still handles extremely well. Of course, the V12 is faster, but can I actually use that extra performance on the road? Almost certainly not -- opportunities to use all the performance of the 4.7 V8 are sadly rare.
And yet... The V12V is just COOL. It is an absolute thrill ride, and it isn't infested with electronics everywhere that do more and more of the driving for you. It may well be the last of its kind of car, which would be a huge shame. The challenge adds to the thrill. MASSIVELY desirable, covetable car.
Max_Torque said:
I'm entirely unsuprised by the fact that Dan's balletic pirouette into the boonies involved a crest!
Both the DB9 and Vantage series suffer from a poor rear suspension design that fails to control tyre kinematics well over sharp vertical inputs. It's been their from the very beginning, but making the car stiffer and lower (and laterally more stiff to a degree) has gradually masked the problem, but it's still their. Compared to something like an M3 the rear end is nothing like as confidence inspiring, with large changes in lateral stiffness and tyre deflection with changine loadings. Quite why AML have never fixed it is beyond me (just copy the BMW suspension for example!).
They also persevere with a differential locking values that are (imo) completely ass-about-face (probably to pass pointless low split Mu camber tests). The absolute first thing i'd do is get the diff flipped around (easy & requires no extra parts etc) to reverse the positive and negative locking ramps!
So, slightly bizarrely, you have a car that has more potential for yaw instability, and a higher yaw gain, when driven slowly and tentatively, then when "taken by the scruff of the neck" and driven with much more positive throttle inputs. On a test track, with lots of positive throttle the car is fine, out in the real world i give it a very very heathly margine indeed!
(on top of all that the TCS (even when working) is frankely a bit pony compared to the Bosch systems, like you'd find in the M3 etc)
SO having said all that, would i like one. HELL YEAH! (i'd just make sure i had a nice and robust vehicle "recovery" policy in place........... ;-)
Odd then that the car whose handling mine reminds me of most is the M3 CSL.Both the DB9 and Vantage series suffer from a poor rear suspension design that fails to control tyre kinematics well over sharp vertical inputs. It's been their from the very beginning, but making the car stiffer and lower (and laterally more stiff to a degree) has gradually masked the problem, but it's still their. Compared to something like an M3 the rear end is nothing like as confidence inspiring, with large changes in lateral stiffness and tyre deflection with changine loadings. Quite why AML have never fixed it is beyond me (just copy the BMW suspension for example!).
They also persevere with a differential locking values that are (imo) completely ass-about-face (probably to pass pointless low split Mu camber tests). The absolute first thing i'd do is get the diff flipped around (easy & requires no extra parts etc) to reverse the positive and negative locking ramps!
So, slightly bizarrely, you have a car that has more potential for yaw instability, and a higher yaw gain, when driven slowly and tentatively, then when "taken by the scruff of the neck" and driven with much more positive throttle inputs. On a test track, with lots of positive throttle the car is fine, out in the real world i give it a very very heathly margine indeed!
(on top of all that the TCS (even when working) is frankely a bit pony compared to the Bosch systems, like you'd find in the M3 etc)
SO having said all that, would i like one. HELL YEAH! (i'd just make sure i had a nice and robust vehicle "recovery" policy in place........... ;-)
George H said:
I suspect a large amount of the lack of grip in the wet is down to the P Zero Corsas fitted to it. I guess if you wanted it to be easier to drive you could swap for the regular P Zeros as fitted to the DBS.
Looks great in those pictures though - Hardly Green
I have p zero corsas fitted to my evo and I have managed regularly to lose traction on all four wheels in the wet with " only" 300bhpLooks great in those pictures though - Hardly Green
I am surprised by the premise of the article, and disagree with it. I've had my V12V since July 2010, covered ~8000 miles since then, and would say that the car (for me) is brilliant. It can be relatively benign, almost docile when I want it to be, and psychotically, brutally fast when asked. It certainly demands respect, and gets it from me, but it is a tremendous, fun and engaging drive.
You're wrong. This is the most attractive Aston made in the current line up because it has the greatest sounding engine in the best looking body. The only thing I don't like, but take as a necessity, are the bonnet vents. I hope Bez & Co didn't put them in there simply as a "styling" gimmick as they did on the Cygnet...
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