RE: Tell me I'm wrong: Aston Martin V12 Vantage
Discussion
MonteV said:
You're wrong. This is the most attractive Aston made in the current line up because it has the greatest sounding engine in the best looking body. The only thing I don't like, but take as a necessity, are the bonnet vents. I hope Bez & Co didn't put them in there simply as a "styling" gimmick as they did on the Cygnet...
So, so wrong. DBS is the best looking of all the Astons and has the same sound. And is by far the better road car because of its longer wheelbase.Well the two V12V's that did 200 miles across Wales yesterday in pouring rain would beg to differ.
But then I guess the writer doesn't "get" the character of the V12V
Yes in the cold/wet the tyres can struggle but the sure as hell didn't yesterday (lashing down in mid Wales and +2/snow on the top of Cross Pass
)
But then I guess the writer doesn't "get" the character of the V12V
Yes in the cold/wet the tyres can struggle but the sure as hell didn't yesterday (lashing down in mid Wales and +2/snow on the top of Cross Pass
)Edited by mikey k on Saturday 28th April 18:49
mikey k said:
Well the two V12V's that did 200 miles across Wales yesterday in pouring rain would beg to differ.
But then I guess the writer doesn't "get" the character of the V12V
Yes in the cold/wet the tyres can struggle but the sure as hell didn't yesterday (lashing down in mid Wales and +2/snow on the top of Cross Pass )
we did But then I guess the writer doesn't "get" the character of the V12V
Yes in the cold/wet the tyres can struggle but the sure as hell didn't yesterday (lashing down in mid Wales and +2/snow on the top of Cross Pass
)Edited by mikey k on Saturday 28th April 18:49
420lbft of torque, cold / wet conditions on what are summer / track tyres and you have low grip......... quelle suprise. The car has the wrong tyres fitted by AM for UK roads/weather and that is not an excuse, it is a fact. I will say that even across bumpy welsh roads at speed and trying hard the grip is awesome in the dry and for me there is nothing wrong with the suspension or handling of this car; It is a truly awesome machine. Face facts, I am afraid you are not man enough to drive it
Well, it does say 'tell me I'm wrong' and I guess you all have! Have really been enjoying the discussion though, some really interesting stuff coming out, not least from the owners defending the honour of their V12s.
I'd say I guess I have to get back in one and prove myself wrong but, er, after the admission in the original piece I may have made that somewhat tricky for myself. Ho hum, one day maybe!
I'd say I guess I have to get back in one and prove myself wrong but, er, after the admission in the original piece I may have made that somewhat tricky for myself. Ho hum, one day maybe!
Drove 300 miles in torrential rain to Nth Wales yesterday. Met up with another 19 Astons for 3 hour hoon through the mountains, twisties, single tracks and no hanging about. Just got home after another 300 mile in mostly torrential rain.
The car didn't miss a beat.
Yep it's a V12Vantage, and I'm a lady driver and love it.
The car didn't miss a beat.
Yep it's a V12Vantage, and I'm a lady driver and love it.
johng39 said:
mikey k said:
Well the two V12V's that did 200 miles across Wales yesterday in pouring rain would beg to differ.
But then I guess the writer doesn't "get" the character of the V12V
Yes in the cold/wet the tyres can struggle but the sure as hell didn't yesterday (lashing down in mid Wales and +2/snow on the top of Cross Pass )
we did But then I guess the writer doesn't "get" the character of the V12V
Yes in the cold/wet the tyres can struggle but the sure as hell didn't yesterday (lashing down in mid Wales and +2/snow on the top of Cross Pass
)Edited by mikey k on Saturday 28th April 18:49
733 miles round trip in ALL weathers and changing conditions around almost every corner... Was it a problem??? Nah... Hate to quote this but it has to be done "Its an Aston Martin Vantage with a V12 engine - What do you expect it to be like"
I would be interested in a scientific skid pan dry/wet traction test with the corsas tested against some other tyres on the V12V. Fancy this as a follow up? In the dry they are truly fantastic, but in the cold and wet that 100% is reached far quicker than most tyres I'm used to. In this instance the mid-corner hump obviously didn't particularly help with the rear traction;-) As long as you're respectful with that right foot to prevent getting near to the limit of breakaway traction there are generally no issues :-)
Di, John - glad you had a fun weekend - real shame about the weather:-( Post photos please!
Di, John - glad you had a fun weekend - real shame about the weather:-( Post photos please!
Dan Trent said:
Well, it does say 'tell me I'm wrong' and I guess you all have! Have really been enjoying the discussion though, some really interesting stuff coming out, not least from the owners defending the honour of their V12s
I'd say I guess I have to get back in one and prove myself wrong but, er, after the admission in the original piece I may have made that somewhat tricky for myself. Ho hum, one day maybe!
I think AM should give you one on a long term test basis? maybe a couple of years or so I'd say I guess I have to get back in one and prove myself wrong but, er, after the admission in the original piece I may have made that somewhat tricky for myself. Ho hum, one day maybe!
Then and only then can you form a proper evaluation of this fine motor car.Hmmm thinking about it, maybe this is what your aiming to do Dan you crafty swine. (Taps side of nose)
George H said:
TotalZ4 said:
517 horse breaks and RWD,what's not to like!
Technically it's 510 BHP, 517PS Interesting review and I don't suspect I'd have a drastically different brief encounter with one as there'd definitely be a surfeit of enthusiasm over talent.
I won't say you're wrong as I lack the frame of reference to be able to say I'm right and a review - any review - is just that. It's a subjective statement of opinion, not an objective statement of incontrovertible fact. That reviewer, in that car, on that day, in that location, in those conditions produced that review, whereas someone else in another example (or even the same), on an another location, on another day in better conditions might produce another.
Clarkson's as entitled to his opinions as is anyone else with the experience from which to inform them. He's never claimed to have anything other than fists of ham and has freely expressed that other drivers have supplied much of "his" more skilful shots, although it'd be strange indeed if he weren't at least reasonably above average as a driver. I think there's a subtle but distinct difference between a good journalist/broadcaster who can drive a bit and a good driver who can write a bit.
As for me, there's not a Vanquish onwards AM that I don't deeply covet and would be very content behind the wheel of, either as a brief experience or owner. The Vanq', DB9/S, Virage and Rapide are more my cup of tea (the latter of which I have been lucky enough to sample directly), but I love the V12V for just being the slightly bonkers thing that it seems to be every time I read about it. The '90s V8 never really needed a couple of superchargers and 550/600bhp, but I love that they exist as a statement of wanton excess, even if they're not the last word in dynamic handling and so it is with modern offerings - I'd be looking to Germany or Italy for that. Or possibly Woking.
Itsallicanafford said:
Zod said:
dd then that the car whose handling mine reminds me of most is the M3 CSL.
Dear zod, would be interestedt o know why, my brother is on the brink of buying an M3 CSL and if it's hedgeable, in his hands this is where it will end up...Yet.
Both are lively on bumpy roads.
Wow what marmite car!!
I have driven all the modern variants of Aston Martin's lineup - even the piglet (toyota one though!) and IMHO the V12V is the best and most focus AM road car. Amazing sound, stunning looks, good handling though very lively in the damp/wet and can understand why some of us have a hedge/car interface problem.
So why am I not driving one and driving a porsche turbo instead? For day I drove both, and initally found always wanting to go in the v12v. However after 150+ miles the noise/tyre roar was getting to me, continually having measure/watch/catch the rear was tiring, every time I stopped ten people would come from nowhere to prod and poke it (unfortunately over 50 or under 12!!!) and I always was aware of that front carbon splitter and diamond cut wheels.
The porsche was very very fast. Sure footed. High quality. Easy to place. Only lost the back end when I wanted to (showing off on junctions), it looks good and everyone hates me but the girls love it .... (wife and daughters of course;-)). Never worried about kerbing the alloys nor catching the front ... But does sound like a hairdryer and very german.
The final nail for V12V was the wife ... "we can have Aston if you want darling, but I like the porsche ..."
So I'm a wuss, girls blouse, yellow etc ... But I get to keep the girls ... In back since there are only petite (again wife and daughters only;-))
Tim
I have driven all the modern variants of Aston Martin's lineup - even the piglet (toyota one though!) and IMHO the V12V is the best and most focus AM road car. Amazing sound, stunning looks, good handling though very lively in the damp/wet and can understand why some of us have a hedge/car interface problem.
So why am I not driving one and driving a porsche turbo instead? For day I drove both, and initally found always wanting to go in the v12v. However after 150+ miles the noise/tyre roar was getting to me, continually having measure/watch/catch the rear was tiring, every time I stopped ten people would come from nowhere to prod and poke it (unfortunately over 50 or under 12!!!) and I always was aware of that front carbon splitter and diamond cut wheels.
The porsche was very very fast. Sure footed. High quality. Easy to place. Only lost the back end when I wanted to (showing off on junctions), it looks good and everyone hates me but the girls love it .... (wife and daughters of course;-)). Never worried about kerbing the alloys nor catching the front ... But does sound like a hairdryer and very german.
The final nail for V12V was the wife ... "we can have Aston if you want darling, but I like the porsche ..."
So I'm a wuss, girls blouse, yellow etc ... But I get to keep the girls ... In back since there are only petite (again wife and daughters only;-))
Tim
tjlees said:
Wow what marmite car!!
I have driven all the modern variants of Aston Martin's lineup - even the piglet (toyota one though!) and IMHO the V12V is the best and most focus AM road car. Amazing sound, stunning looks, good handling though very lively in the damp/wet and can understand why some of us have a hedge/car interface problem.
So why am I not driving one and driving a porsche turbo instead? For day I drove both, and initally found always wanting to go in the v12v. However after 150+ miles the noise/tyre roar was getting to me, continually having measure/watch/catch the rear was tiring, every time I stopped ten people would come from nowhere to prod and poke it (unfortunately over 50 or under 12!!!) and I always was aware of that front carbon splitter and diamond cut wheels.
The porsche was very very fast. Sure footed. High quality. Easy to place. Only lost the back end when I wanted to (showing off on junctions), it looks good and everyone hates me but the girls love it .... (wife and daughters of course;-)). Never worried about kerbing the alloys nor catching the front ... But does sound like a hairdryer and very german.
The final nail for V12V was the wife ... "we can have Aston if you want darling, but I like the porsche ..."
So I'm a wuss, girls blouse, yellow etc ... But I get to keep the girls ... In back since there are only petite (again wife and daughters only;-))
Tim
You're also a traitor and should be locked in the tower for the ravens to peck at. Actually for me porsche ownership would be worse, so I think you got what you deserved!I have driven all the modern variants of Aston Martin's lineup - even the piglet (toyota one though!) and IMHO the V12V is the best and most focus AM road car. Amazing sound, stunning looks, good handling though very lively in the damp/wet and can understand why some of us have a hedge/car interface problem.
So why am I not driving one and driving a porsche turbo instead? For day I drove both, and initally found always wanting to go in the v12v. However after 150+ miles the noise/tyre roar was getting to me, continually having measure/watch/catch the rear was tiring, every time I stopped ten people would come from nowhere to prod and poke it (unfortunately over 50 or under 12!!!) and I always was aware of that front carbon splitter and diamond cut wheels.
The porsche was very very fast. Sure footed. High quality. Easy to place. Only lost the back end when I wanted to (showing off on junctions), it looks good and everyone hates me but the girls love it .... (wife and daughters of course;-)). Never worried about kerbing the alloys nor catching the front ... But does sound like a hairdryer and very german.
The final nail for V12V was the wife ... "we can have Aston if you want darling, but I like the porsche ..."
So I'm a wuss, girls blouse, yellow etc ... But I get to keep the girls ... In back since there are only petite (again wife and daughters only;-))
Tim
I'd have a V12V in a heartbeat, be a nice step up from my slow unresponsive, poor handling 4.3 V8V
It always surprises me how many people believe these cars are slow and don't handle or are poorly balanced, most of the time it seems to come from folk that haven't been lucky enough to own one or have extensive driving time
I had a hoot yesterday driving round Wales with a bunch of fellow Aston owners, none of us ended up going through a hedge or in a pond thankfully.
Also thoroughly enjoyed having a play with a chap driving his R35 GTR in a spirited fashion
It always surprises me how many people believe these cars are slow and don't handle or are poorly balanced, most of the time it seems to come from folk that haven't been lucky enough to own one or have extensive driving time
I had a hoot yesterday driving round Wales with a bunch of fellow Aston owners, none of us ended up going through a hedge or in a pond thankfully.
Also thoroughly enjoyed having a play with a chap driving his R35 GTR in a spirited fashion
As for Dan's intentionally controversial topic, I can't help but think he's doing owners a favour by helping to build up a reputation as Aston's 'Bad Boy' of the range.
In reality it's a beautifully balanced front-mid car with near perfect weight distribution (quite unlike those damnable, cantankerous beetles) with a smooth, linear, torque rich V12 and, praise be, slick shifting manual gearbox (by far the best cable shift I've encountered). I've never read a review before that suggested it was in any way 'a handful'. 510bhp is also not a ridiculous amount from a 5.9 litre engine and contrary to some things I've read the car is a long way short of 'uncontrollably fast'. If anything it could easily handle a bit more but I'll stop there for fear of jeapoardizing the 'bad boy' rep.
However the V12Vantage does come with one entirely pointless, unhelpful, fashionable feature - 'sport mode'. Up until now a long travel throttle has been desirable and an asset for a torquey car but Aston saw fit to give owners the option of reducing it to a half it's full travel. I know many like it but I much prefer the car with it switched off. It's much easier to be progressive with the power. With it pressed on it's also much easier to be clumsy and spin up the rears, doubly so in the wet. If Dan spun with the button off then it's a truly freak accident. And a 'sport' button is just such a feeble thing to call it. What sport are we about to partake in? The pressing of buttons for the gratification of the marketing department? It's nearly as irritating as 'race' mode in a road car. Are car buyers really so easily conned?
Anyone who prefers the V8 (Dan!) is not aware of the significance of having 12 cylinders. Even if it was the same performance, even if the handling was slightly worse (which it isn't) than the V8, anyone over 12 years old shouldn't be turning down the option to having the extra four cylinders. They really do make all the difference.
And for how much longer will a V12 with a manual box be available? It's one of motoring's greatest experiences and most glorious combinations (Miura, 250 GTO, 375 GTB, Daytona, 550 Maranello, Murcielago) but both Ferrari and Lambo have already decided to deny owners that option. Will the new DBS be available with a manual? Unlikely. So for that reason alone the V12 Vantage deserves recognition and a special place in our hearts.
In reality it's a beautifully balanced front-mid car with near perfect weight distribution (quite unlike those damnable, cantankerous beetles) with a smooth, linear, torque rich V12 and, praise be, slick shifting manual gearbox (by far the best cable shift I've encountered). I've never read a review before that suggested it was in any way 'a handful'. 510bhp is also not a ridiculous amount from a 5.9 litre engine and contrary to some things I've read the car is a long way short of 'uncontrollably fast'. If anything it could easily handle a bit more but I'll stop there for fear of jeapoardizing the 'bad boy' rep.
However the V12Vantage does come with one entirely pointless, unhelpful, fashionable feature - 'sport mode'. Up until now a long travel throttle has been desirable and an asset for a torquey car but Aston saw fit to give owners the option of reducing it to a half it's full travel. I know many like it but I much prefer the car with it switched off. It's much easier to be progressive with the power. With it pressed on it's also much easier to be clumsy and spin up the rears, doubly so in the wet. If Dan spun with the button off then it's a truly freak accident. And a 'sport' button is just such a feeble thing to call it. What sport are we about to partake in? The pressing of buttons for the gratification of the marketing department? It's nearly as irritating as 'race' mode in a road car. Are car buyers really so easily conned?
Anyone who prefers the V8 (Dan!) is not aware of the significance of having 12 cylinders. Even if it was the same performance, even if the handling was slightly worse (which it isn't) than the V8, anyone over 12 years old shouldn't be turning down the option to having the extra four cylinders. They really do make all the difference.
And for how much longer will a V12 with a manual box be available? It's one of motoring's greatest experiences and most glorious combinations (Miura, 250 GTO, 375 GTB, Daytona, 550 Maranello, Murcielago) but both Ferrari and Lambo have already decided to deny owners that option. Will the new DBS be available with a manual? Unlikely. So for that reason alone the V12 Vantage deserves recognition and a special place in our hearts.
The Pits said:
You're also a traitor and should be locked in the tower for the ravens to peck at. Actually for me porsche ownership would be worse, so I think you got what you deserved!
Maybe but my other car is an Ultima GTR and that's British to the core of Ted's beard (and shed!) ... and I am not afraid to use it in wet see http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?t=1... ;-)Anyway would I have a Aston Martin V12V if I had the money, space and single - of course, hell yeah and bring on those hedges - the added bonus is the GILFs that will be admiring the car are great without teeth.
Dan Trent said:
Well, it does say 'tell me I'm wrong' and I guess you all have! Have really been enjoying the discussion though, some really interesting stuff coming out, not least from the owners defending the honour of their V12s.
I'd say I guess I have to get back in one and prove myself wrong but, er, after the admission in the original piece I may have made that somewhat tricky for myself. Ho hum, one day maybe!
Keep an open mind and have another go I'd say I guess I have to get back in one and prove myself wrong but, er, after the admission in the original piece I may have made that somewhat tricky for myself. Ho hum, one day maybe!
You were a bit unlucky that 3 other V12V's were doing the same thing, in the same area, on the same day and they really enjoyed it.
AM are currently in the process of approving tyres that are more UK weather friendly, they also offer a winter tyre packaged on the V12V (IIRC the wheels & tyres that are on the V8?)
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