RE: Tell me I'm wrong: Aston Martin V12 Vantage
Discussion
Think article highlights general problem with today's cars: lots of weight and too much power = only driveable in the wet (but sometimes in the dry too) by normal people with a whole bunch of electronics. If you took away the electronic intervention from most high performance cars today there would be a lot more people sitting in fields/ditches/etc, wondering what the hell just happened!
You bloody big jessie 
Its not meant to flow like the V8 much in the same way neither does a V8 Atom, Its a dirty great hot rod of a V12 stuffed in a small Aston simply because they can and did and for a giggle, This idea was probably concieved whilst the engineers at Aston were out on the lash and decided it would be fun and so it proves.
I asked a very competatnt driver once can you have too much power?
His reply: The throttle goes both ways.
Amen.
Its not meant to flow like the V8 much in the same way neither does a V8 Atom, Its a dirty great hot rod of a V12 stuffed in a small Aston simply because they can and did and for a giggle, This idea was probably concieved whilst the engineers at Aston were out on the lash and decided it would be fun and so it proves.
I asked a very competatnt driver once can you have too much power?
His reply: The throttle goes both ways.
Amen.
It's hardly slow now is it? Faster than 85% of cars on the road.The V12V demands respect, but that doesn't make it a flawed car. The tyres are an issue in the wet and cold and if the temperature is below 8-10 degrees they will never heat up properly - hence the car will feel unplanted. For a motoring journalist to take a car out and not respecting the basic laws of physics is disappointing. One should never drive powerful sports cars in wintry conditions without the proper tyres. Quote " a badly timed electrical error" - well if the tyres have no grip due to temperature no electronic software in the world is going to bail you out.
CHIEF said:
I asked a very competatnt driver once can you have too much power?
His reply: The throttle goes both ways.
Amen.
When I had my Atom 300 in the wet I don't think I could ever use more than 10mm of throttle... however I didn't have electronics so you do drive differently. You drive a car with electronics using them at times, which if they don't reach as intended can be interesting. And yes that has happened to me once, luckily I caught it though.His reply: The throttle goes both ways.
Amen.
I own a V12 and before that a V8 (4.3)... Both are fantastic cars...
I use the V12 far more than I did the V8... it's more involving, more power.. better transmission, handling is superb, it feels really light on its feet... Yes it will bite you in the ar*e if you're silly, but knowing that you need to treat it with respect adds to the excitement and sense of occasion...
I'm not a skilled driver, but I'm gradually learning where the limits are and that learning process is great fun. It's a bit like mountain bikng (another passion), you need to push your limits slowly to avoid stacking in to a tree.. or ending up in the hedge..
I love it!!
I use the V12 far more than I did the V8... it's more involving, more power.. better transmission, handling is superb, it feels really light on its feet... Yes it will bite you in the ar*e if you're silly, but knowing that you need to treat it with respect adds to the excitement and sense of occasion...
I'm not a skilled driver, but I'm gradually learning where the limits are and that learning process is great fun. It's a bit like mountain bikng (another passion), you need to push your limits slowly to avoid stacking in to a tree.. or ending up in the hedge..
I love it!!
Pugsey said:
I don't recognise writers description as being of the cars (V12s) I've experienced. Yes, the V8 is a 'sweeter' more 'balanced' car but that's EXACTLY why many true petrol heads would choose the V12. Yes you need to be circumspect in the wet but for me that's a GOOD thing - and it is a v. powerfull rwd car for heavens sake. I've tackled a fair few Welsh & N Yorks moors roads and thought the car handled them well - and had no probs holding station with other exotic stuff. And I'd want more details of how that off was the car's fault to convince me that the writer wasn't to blame.
"The stats as well. After all, if there's nothing that brings you joy at the idea of levering a 6.0-litre V12 into an Aston Martin Vantage and sending 517hp to the back wheels via a proper six-speed manual gearbox then, frankly, you're probably reading the wrong website."
This is PH. If it's not a FWD diesel with an auto box, we don't want to know. How times have changed ;-)
This is PH. If it's not a FWD diesel with an auto box, we don't want to know. How times have changed ;-)
warren182 said:
The V8 is just about as fast as a road car needs to be. Impressively quick, but you're able to stretch it without going mental. I imagine (not driven one) that the V12 is the type of car you always have to hold back a fraction.
Great noise - but they really ain't that quick. Best part of 1 3/4 TONS powers by a high reving (i.e. not huge torque) V8 (385 in 4.3) is no recipe for Proper speed.I do likem' though. SC V8 would have been best (extra bulk of the V12 not there but just as much power / torque).
Should have been nearer 1500kg IMO (both of em).
Schnellmann said:
Think article highlights general problem with today's cars: lots of weight and too much power = only driveable in the wet (but sometimes in the dry too) by normal people with a whole bunch of electronics. If you took away the electronic intervention from most high performance cars today there would be a lot more people sitting in fields/ditches/etc, wondering what the hell just happened!
I second that. Since all manufacturers started overpowering and overtiring too heavy cars for the sake of some idiots who need electronics to keep their bragging rights alive, the classic sportscar has died. As far as I know there isn't any +/- 1000kg front engined sportscar available with a torquey, low-revving +/- 300bhp engine, a manual box, rear wheel drive and lacking stupid driver aids. That sensible speed - lots of fun thing seems to have died together with TVR...I'm not saying there aren't any fun cars anymore, but there always seems to be something missing.
jellison said:
Best part of 1 3/4 TONS powers by a high reving (i.e. not huge torque) V8 (385 in 4.3) is no recipe for Proper speed.
? You're a diesel man?Power + gearing + light weight + aero = speed. Torque = lazy, easy speed and flexibility but give me revs and reasonable torque over high torque & moderate power any day if you want an engine to be able to propel a vehicle quickly.
For my money I like the V8 soundtrack and 420bhp is OK though still unstressed with a wod of torque and emissions biased - shame it's not a little pokier these days, possibly even in the same way the old 4.3 got the Prodrive 425bhp mapping. Is there a better remap for the 4.7 (or a bigger plenum etc as per the N400) or has nobody tackled this market yet?
slikrs said:
For my money I like the V8 soundtrack and 420bhp is OK though still unstressed with a wod of torque and emissions biased - shame it's not a little pokier these days, possibly even in the same way the old 4.3 got the Prodrive 425bhp mapping. Is there a better remap for the 4.7 (or a bigger plenum etc as per the N400) or has nobody tackled this market yet?
You could take it to Bamford Rose and up it to 475bhp and 540nm as others have done. slikrs said:
jellison said:
Best part of 1 3/4 TONS powers by a high reving (i.e. not huge torque) V8 (385 in 4.3) is no recipe for Proper speed.
? You're a diesel man?Power + gearing + light weight + aero = speed. Torque = lazy, easy speed and flexibility but give me revs and reasonable torque over high torque & moderate power any day if you want an engine to be able to propel a vehicle quickly.
For my money I like the V8 soundtrack and 420bhp is OK though still unstressed with a wod of torque and emissions biased - shame it's not a little pokier these days, possibly even in the same way the old 4.3 got the Prodrive 425bhp mapping. Is there a better remap for the 4.7 (or a bigger plenum etc as per the N400) or has nobody tackled this market yet?
This Bamford thing sound good for the 4.7 (not been in one of those).
Mate had the only UK SC V8 - but the people that claimed they could do it (had it 2 years - EVO tested it), could not properly break into the engine part of the ecu, so all put back to std. 530bhp while it lived and bigger bore exhaust (sounded like Armagedon).
jellison said:
reat noise - but they really ain't that quick. Best part of 1 3/4 TONS powers by a high reving (i.e. not huge torque) V8 (385 in 4.3) is no recipe for Proper speed.
I do likem' though. SC V8 would have been best (extra bulk of the V12 not there but just as much power / torque).
Should have been nearer 1500kg IMO (both of em).
I suspect many of the posters on this forum have not lived in the real world for some time.I do likem' though. SC V8 would have been best (extra bulk of the V12 not there but just as much power / torque).
Should have been nearer 1500kg IMO (both of em).
What exactly is proper speed?
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