RE: Tell me I'm wrong: Aston Martin V12 Vantage
Discussion
Regarding the pace, or lack thereof, in the 4.3V8, so what?
It isn't slow, no matter what your point of reference and, to me, the fact that someone in some lesser machinery might be able to keep up is utterly beside the point. It is an Aston for god's sake. Whether or not you can win some childish drag race with someone in a souped up BMW is irrelevant. To me at least.
Having had the pleasure of driving, but sadly not owning a Vantage, I'd just cruise along, enjoying the interior, noise, fact I'd bought an Aston etc etc...
And as for the V12. Want.
It isn't slow, no matter what your point of reference and, to me, the fact that someone in some lesser machinery might be able to keep up is utterly beside the point. It is an Aston for god's sake. Whether or not you can win some childish drag race with someone in a souped up BMW is irrelevant. To me at least.
Having had the pleasure of driving, but sadly not owning a Vantage, I'd just cruise along, enjoying the interior, noise, fact I'd bought an Aston etc etc...
And as for the V12. Want.
Schnellmann said:
Think article highlights general problem with today's cars: lots of weight and too much power = only driveable in the wet (but sometimes in the dry too) by normal people with a whole bunch of electronics. If you took away the electronic intervention from most high performance cars today there would be a lot more people sitting in fields/ditches/etc, wondering what the hell just happened!
Exactly!Interesting discussion too, keep it coming. And for what it's worth I'd have reached the same conclusion about the V12 without coming off the road. But I thought I'd throw that in too so you could all point and laugh and call me a twerp!
Devil2575 said:
jellison said:
Great noise - but they really ain't that quick. Best part of 1 3/4 TONS powers by a high reving (i.e. not huge torque) V8 (385 in 4.3) is no recipe for Proper speed.
I do likem' though. SC V8 would have been best (extra bulk of the V12 not there but just as much power / torque).
Should have been nearer 1500kg IMO (both of em).
I suspect many of the posters on this forum have not lived in the real world for some time.I do likem' though. SC V8 would have been best (extra bulk of the V12 not there but just as much power / torque).
Should have been nearer 1500kg IMO (both of em).
What exactly is proper speed?
Last one had shorter gearing than V8V, i.e. 400(real)bhp and 1100kg TVR i.e. 363bhp/ton. V8V is about 260. Next one is well over double that
Dan said:
... the ESP in the Aston at a similar pace the yellow light was ablaze ...
Here was your clue that perhaps the tyres (or something else) weren't quite up to the conditions.But no. You seemed to need to continue to push on and try and prove your manliness.
Not so much a wuss as willful ignorance?
ETA: I'd still want the V12V over a V8, anyday.
Edited by jeremyc on Friday 27th April 12:51
I don't fly a plane - but there seem to be parallels with developments there?
Computers doing more and more and the underlying "rightness" without computers is now absent.
It's not always about the absolute stats, the pleasure of driving is about how much involvement you have in what happens.
Computers doing more and more and the underlying "rightness" without computers is now absent.
It's not always about the absolute stats, the pleasure of driving is about how much involvement you have in what happens.
CliveM said:
It's not always about the absolute stats, the pleasure of driving is about how much involvement you have in what happens.
Dan Trent said:
Schnellmann said:
Think article highlights general problem with today's cars: lots of weight and too much power = only driveable in the wet (but sometimes in the dry too) by normal people with a whole bunch of electronics. If you took away the electronic intervention from most high performance cars today there would be a lot more people sitting in fields/ditches/etc, wondering what the hell just happened!
Exactly!Interesting discussion too, keep it coming. And for what it's worth I'd have reached the same conclusion about the V12 without coming off the road. But I thought I'd throw that in too so you could all point and laugh and call me a twerp!
I wouldn't call anyone a twerp, you're entitled to your opinion...
The perception that the V12 is in some way uncontrollable is quite weird.. I hardly light up the traction control at all, ok maybe I'm not trying hard enough... or maybe the amazing feedback I get through the light weight seats and steering tells me exactly what’s going on at the back way before I need to rely on the electronics... and I ease off...
If you stamp on the accelerator like a twerp (
) then yes you're going to have trouble... 
I'm looking forward to some dry warm weather so that I can see just what the Corsa's are capable of... a recent post in the Aston section from a V12 owner in the US suggests they will be awsome...
CatalystV12V said:
Dan Trent said:
Schnellmann said:
Think article highlights general problem with today's cars: lots of weight and too much power = only driveable in the wet (but sometimes in the dry too) by normal people with a whole bunch of electronics. If you took away the electronic intervention from most high performance cars today there would be a lot more people sitting in fields/ditches/etc, wondering what the hell just happened!
Exactly!Interesting discussion too, keep it coming. And for what it's worth I'd have reached the same conclusion about the V12 without coming off the road. But I thought I'd throw that in too so you could all point and laugh and call me a twerp!
I wouldn't call anyone a twerp, you're entitled to your opinion...
The perception that the V12 is in some way uncontrollable is quite weird.. I hardly light up the traction control at all, ok maybe I'm not trying hard enough... or maybe the amazing feedback I get through the light weight seats and steering tells me exactly what’s going on at the back way before I need to rely on the electronics... and I ease off...
If you stamp on the accelerator like a twerp (
) then yes you're going to have trouble... I'm looking forward to some dry warm weather so that I can see just what the Corsa's are capable of... a recent post in the Aston section from a V12 owner in the US suggests they will be awsome...
So, the TC/ESP had a momentary, and unexpected, shut-down - not surprised the car pitched you into a spin. Hardly your fault.
TC/ESP should be a fail-safe system - ie, an add-on, not a critical aspect of a car's overall handling setup.
If the diff had unexpectedly locked, all would be shouting: "Poor show, Aston!" But because it was a 'nanny' device that failed, it's an excuse for willy waving.
It was a component failure. End of. Poor show, Aston!
TC/ESP should be a fail-safe system - ie, an add-on, not a critical aspect of a car's overall handling setup.
If the diff had unexpectedly locked, all would be shouting: "Poor show, Aston!" But because it was a 'nanny' device that failed, it's an excuse for willy waving.
It was a component failure. End of. Poor show, Aston!
CatalystV12V said:
I own a V12 and before that a V8 (4.3)... Both are fantastic cars...
I use the V12 far more than I did the V8... it's more involving, more power.. better transmission, handling is superb, it feels really light on its feet... Yes it will bite you in the ar*e if you're silly, but knowing that you need to treat it with respect adds to the excitement and sense of occasion...
I'm not a skilled driver, but I'm gradually learning where the limits are and that learning process is great fun. It's a bit like mountain bikng (another passion), you need to push your limits slowly to avoid stacking in to a tree.. or ending up in the hedge..
I love it!!
I agree. A couple of factors that could have led to this review being a bit wishy washy.I use the V12 far more than I did the V8... it's more involving, more power.. better transmission, handling is superb, it feels really light on its feet... Yes it will bite you in the ar*e if you're silly, but knowing that you need to treat it with respect adds to the excitement and sense of occasion...
I'm not a skilled driver, but I'm gradually learning where the limits are and that learning process is great fun. It's a bit like mountain bikng (another passion), you need to push your limits slowly to avoid stacking in to a tree.. or ending up in the hedge..
I love it!!
1. Give a chap a car he's not used to driving that is very powerful in the worst possible conditions.
2. Give him only a day to test it to its extremes to give a decent view on the car.
3. Factor in it's not his car so the sense of responsibility is diminished, as is the understanding of its capabilities and limitations.
I've driven the V12V a few times and each time it teaches me something knew and I have to adapt to it. It is very different to the V8 Vantage or V8 Vantage S. It almost needs to be treated like a Vanquish!
Yes it's challenging, yes there are other cars of similar power that are easier to drive but no this doesn't make it a bad car. Once you get to spend more time in the car, on its good days and bad (and yours!) then you see that this unpredictability is its charm.
Maybe we could get an owner's review to summarise a few years driving experience rather than a day or two?
I'm kinda with Mr Trent with this one.
Not so much in the fact that the V12 is a not a good car but more about the relevance of it on a British road.
I've had some quick(ish) cars but nothing like as powerful as this. Did I ever feel I had a proper opportunity to drive them anywhere near their limit on a public road - absolutely not.
Its not the kind of car you would track on a regular basis either, just too big and heavy. So what does the V12 do that the V8 doesn't in terms of speed or enjoyment on a public road? Probably very little. Sure it sounds good, yeah it looks amazing, but so does the V8, what else does the bigger engine really give you?
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to find out what its like (as I've not driven either), but like a lot of these supercars I reckon just a month of ownership would be enough to give me the thrill of having driven.
Not so much in the fact that the V12 is a not a good car but more about the relevance of it on a British road.
I've had some quick(ish) cars but nothing like as powerful as this. Did I ever feel I had a proper opportunity to drive them anywhere near their limit on a public road - absolutely not.
Its not the kind of car you would track on a regular basis either, just too big and heavy. So what does the V12 do that the V8 doesn't in terms of speed or enjoyment on a public road? Probably very little. Sure it sounds good, yeah it looks amazing, but so does the V8, what else does the bigger engine really give you?
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to find out what its like (as I've not driven either), but like a lot of these supercars I reckon just a month of ownership would be enough to give me the thrill of having driven.
Vantagefan said:
CatalystV12V said:
I own a V12 and before that a V8 (4.3)... Both are fantastic cars...
I use the V12 far more than I did the V8... it's more involving, more power.. better transmission, handling is superb, it feels really light on its feet... Yes it will bite you in the ar*e if you're silly, but knowing that you need to treat it with respect adds to the excitement and sense of occasion...
I'm not a skilled driver, but I'm gradually learning where the limits are and that learning process is great fun. It's a bit like mountain bikng (another passion), you need to push your limits slowly to avoid stacking in to a tree.. or ending up in the hedge..
I love it!!
I agree. A couple of factors that could have led to this review being a bit wishy washy.I use the V12 far more than I did the V8... it's more involving, more power.. better transmission, handling is superb, it feels really light on its feet... Yes it will bite you in the ar*e if you're silly, but knowing that you need to treat it with respect adds to the excitement and sense of occasion...
I'm not a skilled driver, but I'm gradually learning where the limits are and that learning process is great fun. It's a bit like mountain bikng (another passion), you need to push your limits slowly to avoid stacking in to a tree.. or ending up in the hedge..
I love it!!
1. Give a chap a car he's not used to driving that is very powerful in the worst possible conditions.
2. Give him only a day to test it to its extremes to give a decent view on the car.
3. Factor in it's not his car so the sense of responsibility is diminished, as is the understanding of its capabilities and limitations.
I've driven the V12V a few times and each time it teaches me something knew and I have to adapt to it. It is very different to the V8 Vantage or V8 Vantage S. It almost needs to be treated like a Vanquish!
Yes it's challenging, yes there are other cars of similar power that are easier to drive but no this doesn't make it a bad car. Once you get to spend more time in the car, on its good days and bad (and yours!) then you see that this unpredictability is its charm.
Maybe we could get an owner's review to summarise a few years driving experience rather than a day or two?
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff