RE: Tell me I'm wrong: Aston Martin V12 Vantage
Discussion
Had mine out for 400 miles yesterday in the pouring rain in temperatures of 7 degrees or so with summer tyres back on and I didn't crash. I did put the rear end out a bit overtaking in the rain (shoudln't have shifted down to second, third would have been fine).
I find the car to be much more fun than a V8 Vantage or a DB9. It's lively, but that makes it fun to drive.
I have grown to like the gearstick.
I find the car to be much more fun than a V8 Vantage or a DB9. It's lively, but that makes it fun to drive.
I have grown to like the gearstick.
Edited by Zod on Friday 27th April 15:13
Bodo said:
Pugsey said:
Vantagefan said:
CatalystV12V said:
I own a V12 and before that a V8 (4.3)... Both are fantastic cars...
I use the V12 far more than I did the V8... it's more involving, more power.. better transmission, handling is superb, it feels really light on its feet... Yes it will bite you in the ar*e if you're silly, but knowing that you need to treat it with respect adds to the excitement and sense of occasion...
I'm not a skilled driver, but I'm gradually learning where the limits are and that learning process is great fun. It's a bit like mountain bikng (another passion), you need to push your limits slowly to avoid stacking in to a tree.. or ending up in the hedge..
I love it!!
I agree. A couple of factors that could have led to this review being a bit wishy washy.I use the V12 far more than I did the V8... it's more involving, more power.. better transmission, handling is superb, it feels really light on its feet... Yes it will bite you in the ar*e if you're silly, but knowing that you need to treat it with respect adds to the excitement and sense of occasion...
I'm not a skilled driver, but I'm gradually learning where the limits are and that learning process is great fun. It's a bit like mountain bikng (another passion), you need to push your limits slowly to avoid stacking in to a tree.. or ending up in the hedge..
I love it!!
1. Give a chap a car he's not used to driving that is very powerful in the worst possible conditions.
2. Give him only a day to test it to its extremes to give a decent view on the car.
3. Factor in it's not his car so the sense of responsibility is diminished, as is the understanding of its capabilities and limitations.
I've driven the V12V a few times and each time it teaches me something knew and I have to adapt to it. It is very different to the V8 Vantage or V8 Vantage S. It almost needs to be treated like a Vanquish!
Yes it's challenging, yes there are other cars of similar power that are easier to drive but no this doesn't make it a bad car. Once you get to spend more time in the car, on its good days and bad (and yours!) then you see that this unpredictability is its charm.
Maybe we could get an owner's review to summarise a few years driving experience rather than a day or two?
The writer is being paid (I assume) to test cars and write here. He is a professional motoring journo.
Therefore re your points.
1.So what, he should revell in the conditions.
2.He should be capable of 'learning' the car in hours, not days.
3.He's supposedly a pro - so should not be effected in this way.
I repeat. My view is that anyone in his position should be a highly skilled driver. Otherwise their views are meaningless..................
OTOH, me managing not to verve a car off the road does not mean I'm a good driver, non?
The V12 Vantage is without doubt the ultimate classic modern Aston Martin. It is unmistakable in design, look at the One 77 without a badge and you'd think it was a Ferrari.
The V12 Vantage hints at great British tradition with its glass ashtray and signed engine plate, it balances the first album's success with the second album's subtle evolution but it doesnt need to convince you why, you either get it or not . Mine had a little paint over spray, which I was a little dissapointed with but I still rest on the celebration of British Greatness. Clarkson's opinions have no bearing on mine in any circumstance by the way!
The gearbox is heavy, the driving position is remarkably upright but you could sit there all day long.
It has enormous low down grunt and if you spun the car you are clearly very average at driving it and dont deserve to be in the right seat. How do so many motorbikes stay on the road in the wet, let alone Caterhams, Nobles and GT3s etc. Really, driving fast is all about the balance of traction over motion, if you haven't done your sums then thats not the vehicle's fault.
My only, slightly flash, issue is that I could only get 187mph out of a claimed 190 but then again the soundtrack of those 12 Pistons fighting the good fight makes any journey at any speed spot on.
Only a Merlin engine would better it.
The V12 Vantage hints at great British tradition with its glass ashtray and signed engine plate, it balances the first album's success with the second album's subtle evolution but it doesnt need to convince you why, you either get it or not . Mine had a little paint over spray, which I was a little dissapointed with but I still rest on the celebration of British Greatness. Clarkson's opinions have no bearing on mine in any circumstance by the way!
The gearbox is heavy, the driving position is remarkably upright but you could sit there all day long.
It has enormous low down grunt and if you spun the car you are clearly very average at driving it and dont deserve to be in the right seat. How do so many motorbikes stay on the road in the wet, let alone Caterhams, Nobles and GT3s etc. Really, driving fast is all about the balance of traction over motion, if you haven't done your sums then thats not the vehicle's fault.
My only, slightly flash, issue is that I could only get 187mph out of a claimed 190 but then again the soundtrack of those 12 Pistons fighting the good fight makes any journey at any speed spot on.
Only a Merlin engine would better it.
Zod said:
With yesterday's conditions and those tyres, you could easily spin without TC, but the question is why would you provoke a spin, given it was obvious that would be the result?
TC or not, I had a near miss in an Aston last year taking a roundabout at 40 mph in the wet. I could have done exactly the same in a hundred other cars and not have even felt a twitch, the fact I got a massive scare was not the cars fault, it was mine. A sports car has to balance being safe with being fun. The difficulty is that everyone's idea of fun is different, some people want no power steering or suspension to feel as though they are really driving, others want all the electronic aids on the planet so they look like a driving god.
The V12 Vantage is the perfect car, to some people, to others it is their arch nemesis. I don't feel this review gives a very good balance. Had Dan of been able to drive it at the Ascari circuit in Spain he may have come back with a very different conclusion, we'll never know if it was simply the conditions or something else...
SMOOTHISFASTEST said:
The V12 Vantage is without doubt the ultimate classic modern Aston Martin. It is unmistakable in design, look at the One 77 without a badge and you'd think it was a Ferrari.
The V12 Vantage hints at great British tradition with its glass ashtray and signed engine plate, it balances the first album's success with the second album's subtle evolution but it doesnt need to convince you why, you either get it or not . Mine had a little paint over spray, which I was a little dissapointed with but I still rest on the celebration of British Greatness. Clarkson's opinions have no bearing on mine in any circumstance by the way!
The gearbox is heavy, the driving position is remarkably upright but you could sit there all day long.
It has enormous low down grunt and if you spun the car you are clearly very average at driving it and dont deserve to be in the right seat. How do so many motorbikes stay on the road in the wet, let alone Caterhams, Nobles and GT3s etc. Really, driving fast is all about the balance of traction over motion, if you haven't done your sums then thats not the vehicle's fault.
My only, slightly flash, issue is that I could only get 187mph out of a claimed 190 but then again the soundtrack of those 12 Pistons fighting the good fight makes any journey at any speed spot on.
Only a Merlin engine would better it.
Glass ashtray?The V12 Vantage hints at great British tradition with its glass ashtray and signed engine plate, it balances the first album's success with the second album's subtle evolution but it doesnt need to convince you why, you either get it or not . Mine had a little paint over spray, which I was a little dissapointed with but I still rest on the celebration of British Greatness. Clarkson's opinions have no bearing on mine in any circumstance by the way!
The gearbox is heavy, the driving position is remarkably upright but you could sit there all day long.
It has enormous low down grunt and if you spun the car you are clearly very average at driving it and dont deserve to be in the right seat. How do so many motorbikes stay on the road in the wet, let alone Caterhams, Nobles and GT3s etc. Really, driving fast is all about the balance of traction over motion, if you haven't done your sums then thats not the vehicle's fault.
My only, slightly flash, issue is that I could only get 187mph out of a claimed 190 but then again the soundtrack of those 12 Pistons fighting the good fight makes any journey at any speed spot on.
Only a Merlin engine would better it.
jellison said:
Devil2575 said:
jellison said:
Great noise - but they really ain't that quick. Best part of 1 3/4 TONS powers by a high reving (i.e. not huge torque) V8 (385 in 4.3) is no recipe for Proper speed.
I do likem' though. SC V8 would have been best (extra bulk of the V12 not there but just as much power / torque).
Should have been nearer 1500kg IMO (both of em).
I suspect many of the posters on this forum have not lived in the real world for some time.I do likem' though. SC V8 would have been best (extra bulk of the V12 not there but just as much power / torque).
Should have been nearer 1500kg IMO (both of em).
What exactly is proper speed?
Last one had shorter gearing than V8V, i.e. 400(real)bhp and 1100kg TVR i.e. 363bhp/ton. V8V is about 260. Next one is well over double that
McLaren F1 had 560 bhp per tonne. Ferrari Enzo had 484 bhp per tonne.
Compared to na F1 car 383 bhp is lame.
Pugsey said:
Yep. Hated then so much it nearly stopped us buying our car in fact. Dealer found some alternatives, fortunately.
Sounds interesting - they're the one bit of the car I'm a bit dubious about. Wish I could say it's the only thing that's stopping me getting one though! You have any pictures of the alternative wheels? 
Even if I didn't know the author I could spot Dan's articles a mile off. They're badly written, staccato, a mixture between pub-banter ironic self deprecation and just plain poor English.
Give someone else a V12 for a day I bet they can avoid a crash AND still write a more entertaining article.
Edited due to a typo.
Give someone else a V12 for a day I bet they can avoid a crash AND still write a more entertaining article.
Edited due to a typo.
Edited by jhayward1980 on Friday 27th April 18:45
Devil2575 said:
jellison said:
Devil2575 said:
jellison said:
Great noise - but they really ain't that quick. Best part of 1 3/4 TONS powers by a high reving (i.e. not huge torque) V8 (385 in 4.3) is no recipe for Proper speed.
I do likem' though. SC V8 would have been best (extra bulk of the V12 not there but just as much power / torque).
Should have been nearer 1500kg IMO (both of em).
I suspect many of the posters on this forum have not lived in the real world for some time.I do likem' though. SC V8 would have been best (extra bulk of the V12 not there but just as much power / torque).
Should have been nearer 1500kg IMO (both of em).
What exactly is proper speed?
Last one had shorter gearing than V8V, i.e. 400(real)bhp and 1100kg TVR i.e. 363bhp/ton. V8V is about 260. Next one is well over double that
McLaren F1 had 560 bhp per tonne. Ferrari Enzo had 484 bhp per tonne.
Compared to na F1 car 383 bhp is lame.
Bhp per tonne is not the only measure of a sports car. If speed was all that mattered we'd all be on superbikes. Speed and hand-crafted luxury however is firmly Aston's domain. Just as race-derived sportiness are battled out by McLaren, Ferrari with Lambo weighing in on outlandish style and flamboyance. At this level they all offer exclusivity and a sense of occasion. Cars like the XK may match the Aston pound for pound in figures but they will struggle to hold a candle to its rarity and craftsmanship.
I think the bonnet vents were originally painted on the concept version and looked better imo. If I had lots of money, which I don't, I'd rather a V8 Vantage S to be honest. It's all very well claiming that the car is too powerful, but judging by what happened when it faced variously a CLK Black and a 911 GT2 in my quick Youtube search, it's actually slower than the competition. Seems a bit pathetic to be all shouty and wild and then slower than your rivals.
...i think Dan makes a very valid point, sometimes more is not necessarily better...there is a sweet spot in every car range that once you tip over that point, you are spending alot more cash for very little additional return...for example, why would you specify a 535D over a 530D, very little difference but a load more cash....but factor in talent and the difference becomes more stark as are you actually capable of exploiting the extra that the more expensive purchase gives you? Another example, will the £70 squash racket make you a better player that the £50? Will the D4 Nikon make you a better photographer than a D700...so if you know you limits, the lower priced purchase plays to your strengths rather than exploiting your weaknesses.
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