Friday 27th April 2012
Diesel myths debunked
How do you turn a nation of gas guzzlers into derv lovers? Chevrolet is leading the charge
In the land of the V8 delivery van, diesel is still a dirty word. But GM in the States is trying to shift the average American's perceptions of diesel as a rough, rattly evil peddled by European socialists as it gears up to sell its first mainstream diesel in the form of the Cruze 2.0-litre.
Will this turn them onto diesels?
The 'myths' Chevy have to debunk are listed in this promotional picture, but it seems some Americans are already being won over as fuel prices increase.
Sales of diesel cars rose 35 per cent in the first quarter of 2012 according to figures from the Diesel Technology Forum and last year they were up 27 per cent.
Okay, they're not about to usurp petrol any time soon in the way they (just about) have here. Diesels account for three per cent of US sales (equivalent to about 180,000 cars a year) compared to a sliver over half of all cars sold in the UK last year.
But more makers selling in the US are joining the likes of VW, who started making the Passat TDI in Tennessee last year. Porsche has announced it's selling the Cayenne diesel and Mercedes is following with the 350 Bluetec version of its S-Class. Even Jeep has said it will launch a diesel Grand Cherokee.
Chevrolet owners unlikely to switch to derv
But let's not carried away here. When Americans squeal about high gas prices, it's hard to feel any sympathy. The equivalent litre price for unleaded after all the sums (including converting their gallons to our gallons) is a measly 62p. At that price, quite frankly, diesel be damned.
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Sivraj
Original Poster
256 posts
61 months
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Only half of fuel stations in the US stock Diesel?
It sound like rolling out LPG over here.
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RemyMartin
1,079 posts
75 months
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The only way I'd have a diesel powered vehicle would be
a) It was a HGV and it was running at least 650bhp
b) An old locomotive
Other than that....never.
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pilchardthecat
6,072 posts
49 months
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The fuel might be a lot cheaper - but have you seen how far away from everything, everything else is?
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EDLT
14,592 posts
76 months
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Those myths aren't debunked, diesels are louder, dirtier and rougher than petrol engines.
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RichTBiscuit
399 posts
21 months
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EDLT said: Those myths aren't debunked, diesels are louder, dirtier and rougher than petrol engines. What he said. Without taking running costs into account, I've not met one person (who knows about cars) who would buy a diesel over a petrol.
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doogz
19,262 posts
57 months
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I can see this thread getting ugly soon.
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Dave Hedgehog
5,321 posts
74 months
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they forgot
1) oil burners have very narrow power bands, so you will be either sitting there with the loud pedal pressed waiting for something to happen, or flying towards the car in front of you
2) oil burners are as boring as watching grass grow
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Devil2575
4,661 posts
58 months
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EDLT said: Those myths aren't debunked, diesels are louder, dirtier and rougher than petrol engines. Depends on how you look at it. Relative to a decent petrol engine they are. However in absolute terms a decent modern diesel engine is relatively smooth, quiet and not at all dirty. Those 'Myths' are certainly no longer a reason not to buy a diesel for the bulk of the non petrolhead public.
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pilchardthecat
6,072 posts
49 months
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doogz said: I can see this thread getting ugly soon. ....and on a Friday afternoon, too. It's almost as if they want it all to kick off, writing an article like that.
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olly22n
11,921 posts
76 months
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RichTBiscuit said: EDLT said: Those myths aren't debunked, diesels are louder, dirtier and rougher than petrol engines. What he said. Without taking running costs into account, I've not met one person (who knows about cars) who would buy a diesel over a petrol.  Why didn't they just say it will save you X amount of dollars. cost is the only reason for diesel. (deltic excepted)
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Devil2575
4,661 posts
58 months
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RichTBiscuit said: EDLT said: Those myths aren't debunked, diesels are louder, dirtier and rougher than petrol engines. What he said. Without taking running costs into account, I've not met one person (who knows about cars) who would buy a diesel over a petrol. I'd agree with that, with the exception of people who drive company cars/do a lot of miles. However the number of people that I meet that know about cars compared to those who don't is small. While a lot of people like a nice car most are not really car people.
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pilchardthecat
6,072 posts
49 months
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Where's Welshbeef and Vladimir when you need 'em? Oi! Diesels are s  t! Shiiiiiiiit!!! 5...4....3....2...
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doogz
19,262 posts
57 months
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Devil2575 said: Depends on how you look at it.
Relative to a decent petrol engine they are. However in absolute terms a decent modern diesel engine is relatively smooth, quiet and not at all dirty. Those 'Myths' are certainly no longer a reason not to buy a diesel for the bulk of the non petrolhead public. That's how most people look at it. That's what they're up against.
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sleep envy
59,548 posts
119 months
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olly22n said: RichTBiscuit said: EDLT said: Those myths aren't debunked, diesels are louder, dirtier and rougher than petrol engines. What he said. Without taking running costs into account, I've not met one person (who knows about cars) who would buy a diesel over a petrol. Why didn't they just say it will save you X amount of dollars. cost is the only reason for diesel. (deltic excepted) Not trying to be provocative but if given the choice between two cars and everything (cost, mpg, servicing, etc) was the same with the exception of what fuel they used I'd be hard pressed to pick between the two. 90-95% of my miles are now driven in London (I did buy my diesel when I was doing 25k+ PA) and to be honest the way it delivers the power does make it quite an easy way to drive through traffic.
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blueg33
10,892 posts
94 months
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Dave Hedgehog said: they forgot
1) oil burners have very narrow power bands, so you will be either sitting there with the loud pedal pressed waiting for something to happen, or flying towards the car in front of you
2) oil burners are as boring as watching grass grow You are incorrect - power band is irrelevant in terms of the waiting etc, its what gears are for. If you mean turbo lag, then that happens with petrol turbos too. For the record I have a 3.0tdi and a 3.0 petrol both the same age, the tdi is the faster of the 2 cars and this is especially noticeable when overtaking as normal driving revs has you right where max power is, that is not the case in the petrol, you have to increase the revs by quite a bit to get the max power. (both are auto's) I wouldn't call this boring, tbh its very impressive 
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doogz
19,262 posts
57 months
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blueg33 said: You are incorrect - power band is irrelevant in terms of the waiting etc, its what gears are for. If you mean turbo lag, then that happens with petrol turbos too. For the record I have a 3.0tdi and a 3.0 petrol both the same age, the tdi is the faster of the 2 cars and this is especially noticeable when overtaking as normal driving revs has you right where max power is, that is not the case in the petrol, you have to increase the revs by quite a bit to get the max power. (both are auto's) And do they both have turbochargers? 
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blueg33
10,892 posts
94 months
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doogz said: And do they both have turbochargers? tdi does, petrol doesn't, petrol gernerates more BHP and is in a lighter car)
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frosted
3,549 posts
47 months
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pilchardthecat said: Where's Welshbeef and Vladimir when you need 'em? Oi! Diesels are s t! Shiiiiiiiit!!! 5...4....3....2... It's ok , when you have a combined five figure salary then petrol prices may be irrelevant to some 
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Otispunkmeyer
2,910 posts
25 months
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Dave Hedgehog said: they forgot
1) oil burners have very narrow power bands, so you will be either sitting there with the loud pedal pressed waiting for something to happen, or flying towards the car in front of you
2) oil burners are as boring as watching grass grow Old diesel maybe. New diesels are much less peaky and more linear. The latest 2.2 from Honda being an example... Theres a satisfying surge upon pedal burial but it doesn't blow it's load in one go, it's more gradual and is a gentler thrust for more of the rev range. Don't know of people have noticed this but compression ratios for petrol and diesel have been converging. Mazdas new sky active engines both run 14.0:1. Means diesel combustion becomes, audiably, softer. Ie quieter and engine operation smoother. Second point stands though. But it does so for equivalent petrols. Let's face it a normal golf or focus is dull what ever they decide to shove under the bonnet.
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Motorrad
3,967 posts
57 months
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Mercedes has been selling diesel cars there for decades. Diesels in the US are mostly the preserve of nutters, eccentrics and people who drive very large pick up trucks when it comes to private motorists. Diesel costs significantly more than petrol which neatly offsets part of the MPG advantage. There were tax incentives that meant you could deduct a fair amount if you bought an 'effecient' automobile but I don't know a single person who did that. Everyone I know there either drives a 6 or 8 cylinder, mostly automatics and other than the odd whine about the price of 'gas' doesn't give a flying f k about efficiency or mpg. Apart from this t t I worked with who had a prius, but he was a vegan, a so-called socialist (who didn't seem to share any of his considerable wealth or time with the poor) and used his electric s t mobile to drive 1/2 a mile to the shops instead of walking or cycling the hypocritical prick. Edit to add: there is no reason whatsoever to own, buy or run a diesel over there IMO given a half decent salary.
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