Why the British Jealousy(?) and negativity, RE cars?
Discussion
I don't know if it has already been covered in this thread, and I chose not to wade through all posts, but the jealousy thing...
...well, it's human nature in my view. I'm not convinced the inhabitants of these islands are any better or worse than people from the continent, or further afield.
But what we do have - and have been subjected to for years - is a strident edge in many media outlets that pours hype onto certain situations, fanning the flames as it were. At the same time, other elements have pursued a different approach through positions of influence, whereby their narrow agendas have been accepted as 'the official view' and been supported by state intervention. I call this the rule of the shouty people.
So, if someone predisposes to take umbridge at ostentatious displays of wealth, goaded into action by what they perceive as societal injustice because too many are hoarding too much wealth etc etc then the appearance of a newer or better vehicle may be all it takes for them to act - be it a snide comment or actual physical attack. And the vehicle is an easy target - it's large, you're gonna leave somewhere (probably out in the open) and it's hard to deny it is yours!
BUT, for all our ills, I believe in he redeeming side of human nature, and I do not believe we have to think like this, or stay in this condition.
It's just that is hard to avoid all the negativity (see today's papers, politics, sport, etc etc).
...well, it's human nature in my view. I'm not convinced the inhabitants of these islands are any better or worse than people from the continent, or further afield.
But what we do have - and have been subjected to for years - is a strident edge in many media outlets that pours hype onto certain situations, fanning the flames as it were. At the same time, other elements have pursued a different approach through positions of influence, whereby their narrow agendas have been accepted as 'the official view' and been supported by state intervention. I call this the rule of the shouty people.
So, if someone predisposes to take umbridge at ostentatious displays of wealth, goaded into action by what they perceive as societal injustice because too many are hoarding too much wealth etc etc then the appearance of a newer or better vehicle may be all it takes for them to act - be it a snide comment or actual physical attack. And the vehicle is an easy target - it's large, you're gonna leave somewhere (probably out in the open) and it's hard to deny it is yours!
BUT, for all our ills, I believe in he redeeming side of human nature, and I do not believe we have to think like this, or stay in this condition.
It's just that is hard to avoid all the negativity (see today's papers, politics, sport, etc etc).
This whole thing did sway off for a bit so;
I have never personally encountered anyone that has had damage done to their car due to jealousy, or because it was a flash car.
I am sure it has happened on occasion, but never to anyone I know.
The majority of people I know that own Porsches, Ferraris, Lamborghinis or even just good M BMWs, or GTRs usually have very positive responses from other people when they are out and about.
I have never personally encountered anyone that has had damage done to their car due to jealousy, or because it was a flash car.
I am sure it has happened on occasion, but never to anyone I know.
The majority of people I know that own Porsches, Ferraris, Lamborghinis or even just good M BMWs, or GTRs usually have very positive responses from other people when they are out and about.
A quote from my own post 10 pages back:
Prof Beard said:
It's been a while since I dipped a toe in a PH thread such as this...
...
We have a culture which seems to be more about aspiration to wealth than aspiration to achieve things (which may indeed result in wealth).
As a result we have an underclass which sees only the "trappings" of success and not it's value. We also have far too many people who think that success requires that the fruits of that success should be both demonstrated to, and admired by, others. Wealth doesn't deserve respect, but what someone has done to gain that wealth might.
Too often now, the ownership of a great car - which should be owned because it's a great car and why not - is seen by some as demanding respect and by others as deserving it. What a shame...
Sadly, reading this thread reveals too many PHers (who tend towards the "successful" end of the spectrum) fall into the "think that success requires that the fruits of that success should be both demonstrated to, and admired by, others" category. "Having" doesn't warrant admiration or respect "doing" probably does....
We have a culture which seems to be more about aspiration to wealth than aspiration to achieve things (which may indeed result in wealth).
As a result we have an underclass which sees only the "trappings" of success and not it's value. We also have far too many people who think that success requires that the fruits of that success should be both demonstrated to, and admired by, others. Wealth doesn't deserve respect, but what someone has done to gain that wealth might.
Too often now, the ownership of a great car - which should be owned because it's a great car and why not - is seen by some as demanding respect and by others as deserving it. What a shame...
martin84 said:
Randy Winkman said:
jaedba2604 said:
predominantly caused by the lower income populations' jealousy as they fail to respect or acknowledge the cause of the disparity in wealth.
What does this mean?
k.jaedba2604 said:
XitUp said:
Will it? Can you show me the stats to back that up? Could it be the poor robbing the poor rather than the rich?
If you look at it in economic terms you could say that a few white collar criminals cause a lot more crime than a load of poor robbers.
The bit about you thinking you are cleverer than you are was just my opinion based on what you said. Opinion, not fact, not that important, just like your ad hominem attacks
of course it could be. it also might be. If you look at it in economic terms you could say that a few white collar criminals cause a lot more crime than a load of poor robbers.
The bit about you thinking you are cleverer than you are was just my opinion based on what you said. Opinion, not fact, not that important, just like your ad hominem attacks
redistribution of wealth is not a sustainable economic model in the 21st century, it simply will not work. so please stop banging on about it.
martin84 said:
jaedba2604 said:
if you've got money you're fine??
The only problems rich people have are ones they create for themselves. With bank balances like that, you have no right to moan about anything really. Like I said, most problems in this World are down to money, so if you've got money you can rise above most problems experienced by most people.
Mobsta said:
Why is it that this type of behaviour, and the verbal abuse that accompanies 'flash car ownership' in this country is such an integral part of the behaviour and psychological makeup of so many in England? Folks dont abuse others with 'upmarket' or expensive purchases overseas. In fact, they opposite will apply. Interest, polite curiosity and no negativity will flow.
This reminded me of something from school. As a child you grow out of your uniform and shoes so they have to be replaced periodically. Go to school with your new shoes on and someone will inveriably stamp on them. You say other countries may say "hey nice shoes", here they say "you can't have anything nice" stamp. These are kids so I don't know where it come from but some people don't grow out of it.
jaedba2604 said:
you are pre-occupied with 'inequality'. there will always be, and should always be, inequality.
otherwise, what motivates people? the only equality that will be reached in the long term is the lowest common denominator. the achievers will see no reward in achieving and the non achievers will carry on doing what they do, happy in the knowledge that what is left will be divided evenly throughout society with no real regard for who has got off their arse and earned it.
I've never suggested that everyone should have the same wage. Please stop using boring strawman arguments, it makes the discussion far less interesting.otherwise, what motivates people? the only equality that will be reached in the long term is the lowest common denominator. the achievers will see no reward in achieving and the non achievers will carry on doing what they do, happy in the knowledge that what is left will be divided evenly throughout society with no real regard for who has got off their arse and earned it.
Marquis Rex said:
Show me the data/stastics? 
Nope, you were right, I've just checked, I was going off old figures. For murder rate anyways, I can't find much on other crimes.Graebob said:
Got told at work that I must be "getting paid too much" when I turned up in my £500 MX5.
I had this the other day. So you can have a big house, put your kids though university, live in a nice area, drive a newish car etc. But because I have a sports car (that they secretly wish they had) im being paid too much?They had the same choices I did. If they are unhappy with their choices its not my fault.
XitUp said:
I've never suggested that everyone should have the same wage. Please stop using boring strawman arguments, it makes the discussion far less interesting.
i think your glib and uninspired responses make things less interesting. i have not made a strawman argument, i have countered only what you have inferred.tell us all xitup, enlighten us. i have asked before, you have a lot to say, but seem to have nothing very meaningful. how would you deal with the inequality? higher taxes on the wealthy? as i see, income tax, capital gains tax, value added tax, stamp duty and inheritance tax all seem to hit the higher earners hard.
it would be nice to think the landed gentry may re-appropriate some of their assets, but, unfortunately, a lot of them are what makes our country unique. as does the dependent population. i would suspect we have the wealthiest dependent population in the world, and it could well be the country's undoing in the longer term.
Jimbeaux said:
martin84 said:
jaedba2604 said:
if you've got money you're fine??
The only problems rich people have are ones they create for themselves. With bank balances like that, you have no right to moan about anything really. Like I said, most problems in this World are down to money, so if you've got money you can rise above most problems experienced by most people.I'm not the sort of person to resent others for being well off though, I'd rather have something to aspire to. If I see a nice car, it just gives me something to aim for every time I go to work.
Prof Beard said:
XitUp said:
Switzerland. Very high gun ownership, very low murder rate.
I was wrong about Canada having more guns by the way, just looked it up.
But still, the correlation between gun ownership and murder rate is pretty weak.
The Swiss are prone to shoot themselves rather frequently though you will find...I was wrong about Canada having more guns by the way, just looked it up.
But still, the correlation between gun ownership and murder rate is pretty weak.
Having said that, I'm of the opinion that high levels of gun ownership result in greater number of gun incidents, doesn't neccesarily mean the crime rate will be higher in general.
matthias73 said:
It is true though. People on minimum wage spend 40 hours a week, trying to scrape a living. Once you are rich (I don't mean well off, I mean rich) you can buy your way out of most things, or things simply wont be an issue.
Thats the long and short of what I was trying to say. My definition of 'people on low incomes' is not the benefit hoarder PH is far too preoccupied with, but the people who go to work full time for pittance pay. They havent got the time or energy to give a fk what the rich bloke down the road has on his driveway.jaedba2604 said:
tell us all xitup, enlighten us. i have asked before, you have a lot to say, but seem to have nothing very meaningful. how would you deal with the inequality? higher taxes on the wealthy? as i see, income tax, capital gains tax, value added tax, stamp duty and inheritance tax all seem to hit the higher earners hard.
Value Added Tax is a regressive tax and the poorest 10% spend more of their income on VAT than the richest 10%. Hardly surprising, thats generally what happens with any form of flat taxation.As for income tax, capital gains tax, stamp duty and inheritance tax all 'hitting' the higher earners 'hard' I have to agree. Those poor people with low incomes, no capital gains, no money with which to buy a house and nothing to inherit just dont know how lucky they are
martin84 said:
matthias73 said:
It is true though. People on minimum wage spend 40 hours a week, trying to scrape a living. Once you are rich (I don't mean well off, I mean rich) you can buy your way out of most things, or things simply wont be an issue.
Thats the long and short of what I was trying to say. My definition of 'people on low incomes' is not the benefit hoarder PH is far too preoccupied with, but the people who go to work full time for pittance pay. They havent got the time or energy to give a fk what the rich bloke down the road has on his driveway.jaedba2604 said:
tell us all xitup, enlighten us. i have asked before, you have a lot to say, but seem to have nothing very meaningful. how would you deal with the inequality? higher taxes on the wealthy? as i see, income tax, capital gains tax, value added tax, stamp duty and inheritance tax all seem to hit the higher earners hard.
Value Added Tax is a regressive tax and the poorest 10% spend more of their income on VAT than the richest 10%. Hardly surprising, thats generally what happens with any form of flat taxation.As for income tax, capital gains tax, stamp duty and inheritance tax all 'hitting' the higher earners 'hard' I have to agree. Those poor people with low incomes, no capital gains, no money with which to buy a house and nothing to inherit just dont know how lucky they are
They couldn't give a toss if you earnt 40k, as long as you were polite to them.
Thats your average shop worker, and like you said, they've got far better things to worry about than why someone else gets a porsche.
Jimbeaux said:
markcoznottz said:
KB_S1 said:
Nah, UK crime rate lowest since modern records began in 1981.
Newlab changed the Way crime stats were reported and collated, twice in fact, deliberately some would say, it made retrospective comparisons of crime rates utterly meaningless. tty.I have a 4 year old Cayman, which cost me less to buy (and run, if you include depreciation) than a new Golf Diesel. But it causes me image problems at work, to the point I bought a secondhand Panda for the commute.
The odd thing is, when I had a Lotus, it generated affection. Maybe it was because it was British. (Maybe because the company had created a far bigger debt than even the 'haters' could aspire to...)
In our German office, my colleagues boast about their cars. If I'm asked what I drive at work now, I just say 'oh, an old Panda' and don't mention the Cayman.
I think the tabloid fuelling of bankers bonus stories has created a hatred of anyone being 'flash'. Yet, I'm not flash. I could afford my car because I'm more Primark than Prada, shop in Morrisons and live in a cheap area. But I get hand gestures when I drive my car....(maybe it is my driving style)
Britain needs to celebrate and foster a culture of aspiration. Otherwise, we'll be like the French and not buy anything more than a battered old Renault for fear of looking flash
The odd thing is, when I had a Lotus, it generated affection. Maybe it was because it was British. (Maybe because the company had created a far bigger debt than even the 'haters' could aspire to...)
In our German office, my colleagues boast about their cars. If I'm asked what I drive at work now, I just say 'oh, an old Panda' and don't mention the Cayman.
I think the tabloid fuelling of bankers bonus stories has created a hatred of anyone being 'flash'. Yet, I'm not flash. I could afford my car because I'm more Primark than Prada, shop in Morrisons and live in a cheap area. But I get hand gestures when I drive my car....(maybe it is my driving style)
Britain needs to celebrate and foster a culture of aspiration. Otherwise, we'll be like the French and not buy anything more than a battered old Renault for fear of looking flash
I think its a bit of both. British people are very class obsessed and there is always jealousy of what someone else has got. Particularly german cars are a target...Porsche will never recover from the 1980s yuppy tag. But also in my experience quite a few people in flash new cars drive VERY arrogantly, Im thinking more RR Sport, Big german saloon type drivers here and that fosters a dislike..If you're driving an old banger and some big shot cuts you up in an expensive german car, its not going to help foster good relations!!....New money type people often seem quite brash and pushy and this comes out in how they behave on the road and towards others...I deal with customer complaints for a large insurer and often the low income people are far more reasonable to deal with than the company director types who can be an absolute nightmare!
generally we're quite a rude nation of people I'm afraid...a little more courtesy on everyone's part would help people understand each other!!
Then there's the fact that the working class folk, i.e. public sector workers are being asked to pay a price for the greed and incompetence of the private sector (bankers) which is fostering a general bitterness amongst normal working people in 2012. But thats another story!!
generally we're quite a rude nation of people I'm afraid...a little more courtesy on everyone's part would help people understand each other!!
Then there's the fact that the working class folk, i.e. public sector workers are being asked to pay a price for the greed and incompetence of the private sector (bankers) which is fostering a general bitterness amongst normal working people in 2012. But thats another story!!
jaedba2604 said:
tell us all xitup, enlighten us. i have asked before, you have a lot to say, but seem to have nothing very meaningful. how would you deal with the inequality?
Making taxes higher doesn't work if people evade them. I'd clamp down on tax evasion, it costs us billions.Then I'd try to do something about the huge underclass of dependants that previous Tory and Labour governments have created. Not an easy job. It would involve making life a lot harder for those who choose not to work.
matthias73 said:
Having said that, I'm of the opinion that high levels of gun ownership result in greater number of gun incidents, doesn't neccesarily mean the crime rate will be higher in general.
Exactly.XitUp said:
It would involve making life a lot harder for those who choose not to work.
that is the whole point of what i have been trying to say. irresepctive of whether someone is a genius or a grafter; if they work i don't see why they should prop up millions who don't want to work.fair point re both governments, but i suspect the ones who choose not to work have an easier life under labour, hence they vote that way.
you have finally said something of sense, thank you.
Edited by jaedba2604 on Saturday 26th May 09:27
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