RE: Time for Tea? BR-Z and GT-86 take on MX-5
Discussion
MX7 said:
If you were really making a distinction between climate and air con, and key and key less, yes I guess you are correct. However, I think that the fact that you describe a stereo with Bluetooth, Ipod and USB as being from the 90s suggests that you are in fact splitting hairs and the US version is nowhere near the "budget version" that you imagined.
does look a lot like something i had im my car in the 90s! 
there are a number of differences, and the cost of those will add up.. i just dont think its as simple as saying we're being charged 10k more than america for the same thing.
externally, as far as i know the differences are: Scion has no DRLs unlike BRZ and GT-86 [due to european laws], amber side repeaters, a lack of rear spoiler, different (cheaper) exhaust system
inside, as before, cloth seats (instead of leather), cheap audio, air con from a yaris, key to start
the cost of those if they were to be bought as upgrades would be several thousand pounds no doubt.. plus add on 20% vat, etc.. the 10 grand difference im sure would soon get eaten up (or at least a very big chunk of it)
MX7 said:
So as long as the most expensive markets charge more, we're getting a good deal?!!
Really, if you think that there's a logical reason why a very similar car costs £10k less in another country, so be it.
There will not be any illogical reasons for the £10k difference. Really, if you think that there's a logical reason why a very similar car costs £10k less in another country, so be it.
Just some reasons that you don't like.My guess is mix of:
- different tax regimes
- higher freight costs to Europe
- different spec levels
- higher unit costs for RHD cars (lower volumes)?
- different profit margin levels across countries, both for the importers and dealers (different costs bases and volumes sold -> different prices).
- competitors - the US have stuff like cheap Mustangs and for all you know, margins for the new Scion might be razor thin as a result. Toyota/Subaru can afford a higher selling price here because the competition is different.
StormLoaded said:
there are a number of differences, and the cost of those will add up.. i just dont think its as simple as saying we're being charged 10k more than america for the same thing.
But you can't explain them?Look, an MX5 in America costs $23,470 (£14,513). Over here they start at £18,000.
A GT86 in America costs $24,930 (£15,369). Over here they start at £25,000.
In America these cars do go head-to-head. Over here, it's closer to a 370Z than an MX5.
They both have the same tax pitfalls, import duties, etc, etc... yet there's a massive difference. Can you explain it?
MX7 said:
But you can't explain them?
Look, an MX5 in America costs $23,470 (£14,513). Over here they start at £18,000.
A GT86 in America costs $24,930 (£15,369). Over here they start at £25,000.
In America these cars do go head-to-head. Over here, it's closer to a 370Z than an MX5.
They both have the same tax pitfalls, import duties, etc, etc... yet there's a massive difference. Can you explain it?
MX5 starts at £18, for the 1.8.. surely a more direct comparison (engine/trim) would be Vs the 2.0 sport tech, at £23995 rrp here in the uk? mazda's top spec mx5 and the gt-86 uk model which is also the premium spec.Look, an MX5 in America costs $23,470 (£14,513). Over here they start at £18,000.
A GT86 in America costs $24,930 (£15,369). Over here they start at £25,000.
In America these cars do go head-to-head. Over here, it's closer to a 370Z than an MX5.
They both have the same tax pitfalls, import duties, etc, etc... yet there's a massive difference. Can you explain it?
According to BMW's websites, a 135i starts at $39,300 (£24,238) in the US and £32,135 in the UK. I'm not sure you can accuse Toyota of gouging, just because (like the Germans) they aren't giving their products away here.
Totally bizarre concepts of value for money people have, in my opinion.
Totally bizarre concepts of value for money people have, in my opinion.
t?so the major complaint from day one is the lack of power, after watching this video the major complaint is still lack of power.
With great power comes greatresponsibility running costs. The person comparing a new GT86 to a second hand V8 Aston, are you real?
40mpg and fun. Forget equivelent priced cars that do 30mpg or 20mpg, 20mpg killed the rx8 a great car that sold well and goes for peanuts second hand because of 20mpg. Toyota could have used the v8 out of the isf and stuck huge wheels on it but its not cheap when your lighting up tyres that are £250 a corner in third gear whilst using fuel faster than you can earn the money to pay for it.
What you have here is a fun car to drive that doesnt cost the earth, it wont be for everybody and if you can afford the petrol a 370z will go through then great for you buy a 370z. Can afford to insure and replace parts on a cayman then go for it excellent car.
no doubt sti/trd devolopments are on the way which will increase power, after market tuners will get 400bhp all day and twice a day on weekends but it'll cost.
>power = >cost.
With great power comes great
40mpg and fun. Forget equivelent priced cars that do 30mpg or 20mpg, 20mpg killed the rx8 a great car that sold well and goes for peanuts second hand because of 20mpg. Toyota could have used the v8 out of the isf and stuck huge wheels on it but its not cheap when your lighting up tyres that are £250 a corner in third gear whilst using fuel faster than you can earn the money to pay for it.
What you have here is a fun car to drive that doesnt cost the earth, it wont be for everybody and if you can afford the petrol a 370z will go through then great for you buy a 370z. Can afford to insure and replace parts on a cayman then go for it excellent car.
no doubt sti/trd devolopments are on the way which will increase power, after market tuners will get 400bhp all day and twice a day on weekends but it'll cost.
>power = >cost.
356Speedster said:
Like others, this video has left me feeling quite disappointed at the Toyobaru pair. I never thought either of them looked very inspiring and that the engines sounded a bit limp, but was prepared to wait for something akin to this test. As they tested them against an MX5, I’m pleased to see a reference point I can relate to (my wife had one, I drove it lots).
I’m sorry to say that my fears have come to life. The MX5 always felt like it needed another 50bhp to be anything other than “a bit quick” and to see this pair of £25K (plus options) new drivers cars struggle to pass it on long straights, leaves me cold. Sure it’s not all about straight line pace, but my mate’s Clio 172 and numerous diesels gave my wife’s MX5 a bit of a drubbing a few yrs ago and there’s only so far you can exploit the handling on public roads to claw back a deficit anyway.
With plans of swapping wife’s ST for something new next yr (that’s fun for me to drive and with a small back seat for the baby), I’m afraid these are off the list. At that price, with dull looks inside & out (all highly subjective) and with significantly less pace than her ST, the only thing this pair offer is a decent chassis. I could have forgiven the looks, if the entire mechanical package was enough to compensate, but it isn’t. And if there is a turbo version to come later, it’ll be £30K and prices itself against a lot of other metal. Oh well, I’m ooot, the search continues.
Totally agree. To hell with how it drives, it's slower than something else and the interior has some plastic in it. Outrage.I’m sorry to say that my fears have come to life. The MX5 always felt like it needed another 50bhp to be anything other than “a bit quick” and to see this pair of £25K (plus options) new drivers cars struggle to pass it on long straights, leaves me cold. Sure it’s not all about straight line pace, but my mate’s Clio 172 and numerous diesels gave my wife’s MX5 a bit of a drubbing a few yrs ago and there’s only so far you can exploit the handling on public roads to claw back a deficit anyway.
With plans of swapping wife’s ST for something new next yr (that’s fun for me to drive and with a small back seat for the baby), I’m afraid these are off the list. At that price, with dull looks inside & out (all highly subjective) and with significantly less pace than her ST, the only thing this pair offer is a decent chassis. I could have forgiven the looks, if the entire mechanical package was enough to compensate, but it isn’t. And if there is a turbo version to come later, it’ll be £30K and prices itself against a lot of other metal. Oh well, I’m ooot, the search continues.
kambites said:
How many cars can you buy for 25k which are actually faster in a straight line (genuine question, straight line speed has never interested me enough to look)?
As per all the other threads with regards to these cars, if someone comes up with answers or options others will dismiss them stating that its not what they are about, their fwd, not 2+" etc etcIn my honest opinion (which is just that), these models are short on hp and are under tyred to keep them lively, they have been clever marketed to appeal as a drivers car for the masses at a budget price like the old ae86 etc, something the japanese were clever at doing, pitching at the more expensive German marques with similar or the same performance levels! They also have a nice friendly eco co2 output which is great for manufacturers and their targets across the range!
The real 86 will be the one that follows very shortly when they have sold enough of these to the short sighted that believe the hype, it will be supercharged or turbo charged and be the car the manufacturers always wanted, not a weak, watered down version with emissions targets at the forefront of real reasons for release!
As said elsewhere, if they can barely pass a Mx5, they are hardly quick, swift maybe more appropriate and im sure all drivers looked like they were having equal amounts of fun in the respective drives!
StormLoaded said:
MX5 starts at £18, for the 1.8.. surely a more direct comparison (engine/trim) would be Vs the 2.0 sport tech, at £23995 rrp here in the uk? mazda's top spec mx5 and the gt-86 uk model which is also the premium spec.
Just had a look at the Mazda site. It's £22,995. You seem to be quoting a few 'facts' that are not too solid, while ignoring my point that the price of the GT86 in the UK seems to be very heavily loaded.jetpilot said:
The real 86 will be the one that follows very shortly when they have sold enough of these to the short sighted that believe the hype, it will be supercharged or turbo charged and be the car the manufacturers always wanted, not a weak, watered down version with emissions targets at the forefront of real reasons for release!
I don't agree. We're not getting the 'real' 86. A more powerful, more expensive (to run and buy) version would be a direct rival to the 370Z. Which, in case anyone hasn't noticed, Nissan is having to discount heavily to shift.
If you don't want an old car and are bored of hot hatches (easily done) but you can't afford to step up a level of ownership and running costs, this is for you. If you've got more money, you've got quicker options. The end.
Reaction to this car (even Evo's) is a bit depressing. There is no point engineering a sporting coupe with rear wheel drive, great front:rear weight distribution, naturally aspirated engine and low centre of gravity when so many people would rather have a souped up front wheel drive family car with none of those advantages. If this car isn't a success, I can see that being the end of that kind of venture, and we will have nothing but things based on shared hatchback platforms.
I think perhaps BMW have the right idea about dumping the naturally aspirated sixes, replacing them with turbo fours and going front wheel drive, I'm coming to the conclusion that most people don't appreciate or deserve anything better.
If you don't want an old car and are bored of hot hatches (easily done) but you can't afford to step up a level of ownership and running costs, this is for you. If you've got more money, you've got quicker options. The end.
Reaction to this car (even Evo's) is a bit depressing. There is no point engineering a sporting coupe with rear wheel drive, great front:rear weight distribution, naturally aspirated engine and low centre of gravity when so many people would rather have a souped up front wheel drive family car with none of those advantages. If this car isn't a success, I can see that being the end of that kind of venture, and we will have nothing but things based on shared hatchback platforms.
I think perhaps BMW have the right idea about dumping the naturally aspirated sixes, replacing them with turbo fours and going front wheel drive, I'm coming to the conclusion that most people don't appreciate or deserve anything better.
A bit disappointing so far but Toyobaru have said that it was going to be ripe for the modders and it will be a great used buy when there'll be a huge market for mods.
Over priced but then so was the Gen7 Celica when it came out till they dropped the price from nearly £20k to about £16k.
How much will the base spec Subaru cost?
Evo tested the auto version - would that have much impact against a manual? I skimmed most of it in WHSmith and jumped straight to the conclusions.
Over priced but then so was the Gen7 Celica when it came out till they dropped the price from nearly £20k to about £16k.
How much will the base spec Subaru cost?
Evo tested the auto version - would that have much impact against a manual? I skimmed most of it in WHSmith and jumped straight to the conclusions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPoZ1SC8uwk
A slightly more positive review. Went to see GT86 in HK, but here they are 50,000 USD (high tax on cars here) so will wait a bit
A slightly more positive review. Went to see GT86 in HK, but here they are 50,000 USD (high tax on cars here) so will wait a bit
MX7 said:
StormLoaded said:
MX5 starts at £18, for the 1.8.. surely a more direct comparison (engine/trim) would be Vs the 2.0 sport tech, at £23995 rrp here in the uk? mazda's top spec mx5 and the gt-86 uk model which is also the premium spec.
Just had a look at the Mazda site. It's £22,995. You seem to be quoting a few 'facts' that are not too solid, while ignoring my point that the price of the GT86 in the UK seems to be very heavily loaded.MX7 said:
...the price of the GT86 in the UK seems to be very heavily loaded.
That's presumption on your part.Aren't the sales targets in the UK only about 2000 units per year? Sales in the US might be 10 or 20 times that. Lower profit margins in the US might work because of that scale.
This car is fairly priced compared to the competition in the UK.
IAJO said:
40mpg and fun. Forget equivelent priced cars that do 30mpg or 20mpg, 20mpg killed the rx8 a great car that sold well and goes for peanuts second hand because of 20mpg.
I will look forward to being proved wrong on this but if owners get anywhere near 40 mpg out of a boxer engine in real world driving i would be gobsmaked!jetpilot said:
I will look forward to being proved wrong on this but if owners get anywhere near 40 mpg out of a boxer engine in real world driving i would be gobsmaked!
If just Subaru had designed the engine I'd agree with this but Toyota's direct injection system is going to improve the economy a hell of a lot. 40mpg? Probably not, low 30's with normal driving? If an iVTEC unit in the Civic/Integra can do it then this shouldn't have a problem either.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff