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havoc
20,159 posts
104 months
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Of all the near-misses I've had on trackdays and at the 'ring, all bar one (which was my fault - misjudged another driver's intentions at Rockingham when I was still rather novice) have been caused by either racers testing or by people driving highly-modded track-spec cars and thinking themselves 'professionals' on-track.
Mostly they've involved overtaking at inappropriate places, and in each case the only reason it's been a near miss is because I've had my eyes open behind me as well as in front.
As posted above, it does boil down to attitude, and the wrong attitude isn't just the preserve of racers doing some testing. Over-confidence, arrogance, lack of care for others - doesn't matter which one, they can all have the same consequences.
Should racers be banned? Overt ones from TF days and circuit trackdays yes, as they should pay for testing like the conscientious ones do. Amateur ones - perhaps not - where do you draw the line between amateur racer and 'professional track-dayer'??? But they should have the same 3P insurance as everyone else has, and they should be held to a higher standard of account BECAUSE of their profession!
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hondafanatic
2,939 posts
70 months
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havoc said: Of all the near-misses I've had on trackdays and at the 'ring, all bar one (which was my fault - misjudged another driver's intentions at Rockingham when I was still rather novice) have been caused by either racers testing or by people driving highly-modded track-spec cars and thinking themselves 'professionals' on-track.
Mostly they've involved overtaking at inappropriate places, and in each case the only reason it's been a near miss is because I've had my eyes open behind me as well as in front.
As posted above, it does boil down to attitude, and the wrong attitude isn't just the preserve of racers doing some testing. Over-confidence, arrogance, lack of care for others - doesn't matter which one, they can all have the same consequences.
Should racers be banned? Overt ones from TF days and circuit trackdays yes, as they should pay for testing like the conscientious ones do. Amateur ones - perhaps not - where do you draw the line between amateur racer and 'professional track-dayer'??? But they should have the same 3P insurance as everyone else has, and they should be held to a higher standard of account BECAUSE of their profession! You need to get a faster car  Seriously, complete and utter joke
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velocgee
77 posts
15 months
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ok, ok. so i guess the majority agree the topic was something on a non-starter.... lets move on cos we don't need another 100 posts reiterating the same thing..... 
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MarkWebb
768 posts
86 months
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It is the driver not the car that is to blame. Simples
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BS75
1,480 posts
35 months
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Article said: So here's a hypothetical question for you PHers... If we take it that public driving on the 'ring is for street cars and not race cars, would the banning of rollcages, HANS devices and crash helmets during these hours make things better or worse? Why when someone is a cock does everyone look for something to ban? Banning things doesn't stop cocks from being cocks, it just makes them go off and find another way to be cockish while making life miserable for the rest of us who DON'T habitually behave like cocks. It's as absurd as banning motor journalism on the strength of this article coming across as an understandably bitter but ultimately cockish bit of writing.
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hondafanatic
2,939 posts
70 months
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velocgee said: ok, ok. so i guess the majority agree the topic was something on a non-starter.... lets move on cos we don't need another 100 posts reiterating the same thing..... Pppfffffft. Can tell you're new 
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legalknievel
199 posts
66 months
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Is it the case that the driver continued to the nearest exit which was 6km away to escape a massive financial penalty? Paranoia about the possibly apocryphal 15,000 euro bill for a crash if you have to be rescued with fire and ambulance being called as a precaution (plus the fee for lost revenue during closure) makes drivers do pretty crazy things on the ring. The point about stupid overtaking of course stands, but a local in a hot 993 rs is just as lethal if he has enough of a hero's mentality. The light body damage on half the 993s and 964s in the car park tells a story I reckon, or am I being too much of a nervous pervous? Ring + minibuses and coaches with families in them plus high performance cars = necessary caution or catastrophe... I'll be there next week in my black 944. Half cage, helmet, and taking it eeaaasy. I'll report back here on any dodgy RX8 overtakes! 
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legalknievel
199 posts
66 months
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hondafanatic said: velocgee said: ok, ok. so i guess the majority agree the topic was something on a non-starter.... lets move on cos we don't need another 100 posts reiterating the same thing..... Pppfffffft. Can tell you're new Haha.
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tomoleeds
343 posts
55 months
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sounds like he ran out of talent
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Kaizer
85 posts
97 months
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What an absolute rubbish article.
A cock is a cock! That includes novices won't let people get pass down the straight at trackdays!
So should trackdays ban novices!
Pathetic!!!
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colinsuper7
22 posts
38 months
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Itsallicanafford
476 posts
28 months
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...never been to the ring but we were at an open pit track day at cadwell yesterday. The biggest thrill was following a few racers, watching their lines a just sharing some track time with a few awesome cars (a vx220, spitting flames running massive aero was my favourite)...ban them, no thanks, they make the day special for me...
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chickensoup
323 posts
124 months
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Cannot have been dropping that many fluids if he drove it 6km back without it seizing
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heebeegeetee
19,533 posts
117 months
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OK, so why do racers drive their cars at public track days, or in the case at the 'Ring, on public roads?
Why aren't these guys racing the thing or at least attending a race test day, where they can actually drive their car properly?
At a track day they are still sharing space with the general public and with much slower cars. Where is the fun in that, and what do they gain by doing so?
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havoc
20,159 posts
104 months
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hondafanatic said: You need to get a faster car Seriously, complete and utter jokeI need to get a faster driver!  Fluids - doesn't take a lot of coolant to be slippery, and on-circuit people are right at the limit...
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bikemonster
1,188 posts
110 months
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I ran a road legal Birkin 7 (Lotus 7 replica) when I lived in Cape Town.
At Cape Town's circuit, track days are split into the following groups:
A - No overtaking once the person in front of you applies brakes.
B - No overtaking once the person in front of you turns in to the corner.
C - Overtake as and when you please.
It worked really well as a way of managing the risks involved in a track day.
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Twincharged
1,771 posts
74 months
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article said: It's no use banning so-called race cars. Plenty of us build our track-going sport scars into machines that could easily go racing. And wherever there is 'cheap' track time both teams and racing drivers will find a way to get on to the track for a few laps of extra training, and who can blame them? Some race drivers just love to take their real racing car out and scalp some normal street cars. Trying to be the big fish in a small pond, it's an attitude thing.
The problem, as ever, is the driver and not the car. It's the racing driver who thinks that overtaking on any corner, any braking zone or any side is acceptable behaviour. It's the racing driver who presumes that if anybody hits their crash debris it will be "their problem and not mine".
An easy enough problem to solve on a trackday where there is a mandatory briefing before anybody takes to the track. But for public driving on the Nurburgring, with no briefings at all, it's just another risk you have to take.
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heightswitch
3,413 posts
119 months
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heebeegeetee said: OK, so why do racers drive their cars at public track days, or in the case at the 'Ring, on public roads?
Why aren't these guys racing the thing or at least attending a race test day, where they can actually drive their car properly?
At a track day they are still sharing space with the general public and with much slower cars. Where is the fun in that, and what do they gain by doing so?
Usually because there are too many production cars with their owners taking up too much track time out of the calenders of the very few circuits we have in the UK which eats into the number of specific test days available Combine that with all the NIMBYS we have today and we find that because of many circuit regulations Test days become few and far between.. Unfortunately circuit owners need the private car owners to help make circuit operation viable...The unfortunate flip side is that eccessive use of circuits by the public often focusses attention on the circuit...Look at croft as an example in point... It is interesting that a few on here seem to think that racing circuits should not be populated by race cars
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Graham
14,179 posts
153 months
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Blimey when did haymarket sell ph to the daily mail! They must have because that's where you normally See poorly written, biased, knee jerk articles! I take my Tuscan racer on both track days and test days, like most of my fellow racers It's down to convenience cost and availability. You always accept that there is a difference between the two types of track time and I've never had a problem. The difference is one of visibility, a race prepped car with numbers and stickers is very obvious, the same car without isn't. Have I seen a race car driven like a cock on a track day yes certainly, have I seen road cars driven stupidly oh yes abou 1 in 6! The way to solve both problems is proper policing by the tdo. Which seems to vary massively. There is also a responsibility to report poor driving if you see it. I was out in a race car the other day a historic spec mg with a novice driver and had a cock in a road me sling it up the inside on a corner after we had turned in and were committed. Reported to tdo who did nothing. An hour later BMW and another car in the barrier.... The easiest way to control standards is not to start banning cars, but policing standard and sending the a  holes home G
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Gary C
572 posts
48 months
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The ring's setup on these days just asking for trouble.
No real control over the drivers, too big to see how they are driving, no effective marshaling, mix of bikes & cars, mix of 1st time lappers and ring hero's.
Its bound to end in tears every so often.
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