Is the MEV Exocet the modern day Caterham Lotus 7 ?

[JamesHayward]

I thought I should just make clear...

Something to bear in mind is that mine isn't a 'normal' Exocet. It's the lightweight which uses MEV's own subframes rather than the Mazda ones, and thinner tubing causing the chassis to be a fair bit lighter. Also mine has the OMEX engine which your normal Exocet wouldn't have. The standard Exocet is no match for a Caterham on anything other than price, however as Stuart mentioned - it's not meant to be.

Lightweight Exocet - 560kg / 171bhp
'Standard' Exocet - 630kg / 117bhp (1.6 Donor)

Caterham R300 - 515kg / 175bhp
Caterham Roadsport - 550kg / 125bhp

It's all personal choice at the end of the day. And for the record, I LOVE Caterham's!

[Sonic7]

ewenm said:

Trackday comparisons are only worth it if you are used to both cars and drive both cars. Otherwise the other driver is a much bigger factor than any difference between the cars.

Spot on! I wonder whether one of the reputable motoring magazines would view a comparison worth doing?

JamesHayward said:

I am fortunate enough to get to drive many performance cars and I truely believe that the Exocet Lightweight is a better all round prospect than the Caterham, and I love Caterhams more than I love my own kidneys....

‘JamesHayward’ as one of the only people to have driven both a Caterham and the Exocet so far to comment on here, I’m very interested to know your opinion regarding driver ‘feedback’ feel of both? The MX5 is notorious for being a good handling ‘easily’ controllable balanced car that provides the driver with ample time to correct a slide. Dose the Exocet retain these attributes?

[JamesHayward]

Yea it does. I drive a Mk 1 MX-5 everyday so I feel I am qualified to comment on this. Please bear in mind that I've only ever driven Exocet race cars though. Having said that it feels like an MX-5 that's perfectly set up and has more power / less weight. The weight saving makes all the difference. Essentially you are driving an MX-5 with a different body so the handling characteristics stay the same, just more enhanced with the weight difference. Imagine an MX-5 that is 50% improved on everything that it does well and that's the Exocet for you (maybe with the exception of the looks and practicality!)

One down side that I noticed though is that when the back end kicked out on the Exocet I smacked my funny bone on the side of the exo chassis when giving it the dap of oppo - and that made for some interesting corners with one dead arm!

The Caterham has different characteristics. You almost wear a Caterham and it feels a lot smaller the then Exocet. The Caterham feels a bit more nimble but more unstable if that makes sense?

Edited by JamesHayward on Tuesday 15th May 14:49

[pilchardthecat]

Keeping an eye on this one. I like it.

[RogueMotorsport]

The MEV designed Rocket is also being overhauled for racing use (by my company so that my interests are declared!):



Currently weighing in at 535kgs in race trim it has the 138bhp engine and running gear from a Toyota MR2 Roadster. We've set no goals other than for it to be huge fun to drive, but we're running it in the 750MC's Sports Specials series this year. This was it's shakedown race:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHN3-F5OwJo

We'll be developing it throughout the course of the season.

Edited by RogueMotorsport on Wednesday 16th May 16:14

[JamesHayward]

RogueMotorsport said:

we're running it in the 750MC's Sports Specials series this year. This was it's shakedown race:

We'll be developing it throughout the course of the season.

Hi Patrick,

I don't know if RTR have mentioned but we will be running up against each other a couple of time's this year. Adam Wilkins from Complete Kit Car Magazine will be running our car at Donnington.

We were talking about it at Stoneleigh and both cars are evenly matched. We have more power but you have less weight!

James

[crofty1984]

RogueMotorsport said:

The MEV designed Rocket is also being overhauled for racing use (by my company so that my interests are declared!):





Currently weighing in at 535kgs in race trim it has the 138bhp engine and running gear from a Toyota MR2 Roadster. We've set no goals other than for it to be huge fun to drive, but we're running it in the 750MC's Sports Specials series this year. This was it's shakedown race:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHN3-F5OwJo

We'll be developing it throughout the course of the season.

Now THAT looks very interesting. How does the ease of build and cost stack up against the Exocet?

[Sonic7]

JamesHayward said:

I thought I should just make clear...

Something to bear in mind is that mine isn't a 'normal' Exocet. It's the lightweight which uses MEV's own subframes rather than the Mazda ones, and thinner tubing causing the chassis to be a fair bit lighter. Also mine has the OMEX engine which your normal Exocet wouldn't have. The standard Exocet is no match for a Caterham on anything other than price, however as Stuart mentioned - it's not meant to be.

Lightweight Exocet - 560kg / 171bhp
'Standard' Exocet - 630kg / 117bhp (1.6 Donor)

Caterham R300 - 515kg / 175bhp
Caterham Roadsport - 550kg / 125bhp

It's all personal choice at the end of the day. And for the record, I LOVE Caterham's!

Thanks for your input, you identify both the 'Standard' Exocet (1.6ltr) and the 'Lightweight' Exocet (1.8ltr) but how does the 'Ma5da MX150R' Exocet (1.8ltr) compare? As most of the YouTube footage floating around is of these racing with a control weight of 860kgs and 150bhp (Race Series Spec:- http://www.ma5daracing.com/news/2011/files/story8.... )

[RogueMotorsport]

JamesHayward said:

I don't know if RTR have mentioned but we will be running up against each other a couple of time's this year. Adam Wilkins from Complete Kit Car Magazine will be running our car at Donnington.

We were talking about it at Stoneleigh and both cars are evenly matched. We have more power but you have less weight!

Excellent, I'll look forward to it. Will you be at PPC in the Park this weekend?

crofty1984 said:

Now THAT looks very interesting. How does the ease of build and cost stack up against the Exocet?

It's too early to say on either count in all honesty. We're specifically aiming to make it simple and affordable but our focus at the moment is in making a great race car!

[TheFreak]

Noger said:

The Exocets running at Anglesey recently appear to be running about Roadsport B pace. Slower than every Supersport.

R300 lap record is 1:37 (set by Johnny5 of this parish).

Head to head....not sure it is going to happen (even on the same circuit/day, MX5 racing fills entire weekends !) that often. But last time (Croft last year) a Supersport was 6 seconds a lap quicker. And the Exocet also lost to a fairly modestly powered Westie.

Pretty quick still. Faster than an Academy car, that is for sure. And cheaper by a long way. But then you could just race an MX5.

(first time poster, long time lurker)
I'm also running in the MX150R championship. It's worth noting the regulations for Ma5daracing state you have to use the standard subframes, not the lightweight versions, so the control weight is 816kg. This also includes the full cage.
We built the kit as pretty much standard and didn't try to shave any weight and at Snett we weighed in at 775kg with driver (85kg) and 15 litres of fuel (~15kg) so dry weight would come in around 675kg.
Also, there is the option to fit either the Mk2 or 2.5 engines to increase power upto 140-150bhp.
So going for the lightweight chassis, with the later VVT engine I'm sure the time will be in the high 1:30s at Anglesey. They were already low 1:40s. I could have got into the 40s given a few more laps but as it was the first outing of the car in the dry I wasn't pushing as hard as I could... still learning

Our total build cost - including all the safety equipment, seat, harness, extinguisher and suit/helmet came in just under £6k. Without all the extras to bring it up to race spec, we could have easily slimmed it down to £4-4500.

We were in the process of building a Locost from a book chassis, but 5 years on (after buying it at 90% finished) we ended up selling it to fund this project. It just wasn't ever going to get finished. This kit was purchased and collected at the end of January and it's first outing was at the end of April. We aren't mechanics by any stretch of the imagination but you don't need to be when putting this kit together. The simplicity of using 99% of the donor running gear is an excellent idea. Plus those Japanese designers are renownded for their reliability so even though the donors are hitting 100k now, a regular service will see the car going on for another 100k.

Along with that the spare parts are so easily available as there's so many potential donors out there a replacement engine could be found for free if you're willing to buy a car to break and sell the rest of the parts on ebay. Otherwise I've picked up a spare decent engine for £90 and a gearbox for £30.

I think the OP is pretty much on the money for the statement about it being the modern day 7, but more in the direction of a very cost effective 2 seater open top self built car with very good out of the box performance and handling.
Obviously the 7 has the market share and the brand to go with it, but for something that looks a bit different to the 7 mould which everyone seems to go for (MK, Westfield, Tiger, Stryker, Aries, Robin Hood) you've got to go a long way to find something to match the performance the Exocet will give.

[JamesHayward]

RogueMotorsport said:

Excellent, I'll look forward to it. Will you be at PPC in the Park this weekend?

Afraid not, I've had shows for the last two weekends and don't have another free weekend until after Le Mans!

[OlberJ]

RogueMotorsport said:

Currently weighing in at 535kgs in race trim it has the 138bhp engine and running gear from a Toyota MR2 Roadster. We've set no goals other than for it to be huge fun to drive, but we're running it in the 750MC's Sports Specials series this year. This was it's shakedown race:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHN3-F5OwJo

We'll be developing it throughout the course of the season.

No plans for a 2zz version yet then?

[freshlikesushi]

I have to say. I actually read this entire thread, and i think that there is a big desparity here.

You guys are comparing a car that is multitudes cheaper, to a car quite expensive for what it is in my opinion.
Is it the modern day caterham....Yes. yes it is. When the caterham was brought about, it was the same thing the exocet is. A cheap, economical way to get into racing. it no longer is for most people such as myself (27 year old family guy with a pretty decent career)

I had been looking at a westfield/caterham, but i ultimately settled on an exocet. Biggest reason was safety and rigidity. Im putting a v8 in mine, since my miata is a v8, and the easiest way to go fast, is be lighter. This is the MODERN tendancies. Guys my age that have a miata iwth a turbo 1.8, or v8 swap, or SR20det swap, that want to go faster without crazy engine builds. This is the fastest way to do it...literally. being mechanically inclined it will take less than 50 hours to build this thing and cost me only a few hundred more dollars over the cost of the kit. There isnt anything comparable.


So on the topic. Yes. The Exocet is the modern day caterham. Cheap, Fast (find something faster for cheaper), easy to be built, modified and repaired.

[RogueMotorsport]

OlberJ said:

No plans for a 2zz version yet then?

Of course, we'd be daft not to! We've actually designed to accomodate a top end spec based on a supercharged 2zz - any more than that would probably be overkill.

[Noger]

thinfourth2 said:

If anything is a challenger to the title of low cost racer then surely the answer is a Locost

Locost BEC for less than £5k. Doesn't quite have that space frame look (the Rocket above looks very good) so looks a bit like every other 7.

[Noger]

JamesHayward said:

Not so sure I'd want to pay an extra £20k for 34bhp and maybe half a second on a lap though.

Fair enough. Your money, your call. Lots *do* pay every year. Like with everything, if you don't place a value on something over and above bits and numbers, then you won't ever get it. But as ever with things Low-Cost, I only accept that as valid if you have never in your life bought something "branded" because you wanted to. You wear a Timex because it tells the time and buy the fiancée a Zirconium engagement ring "because it looks the same". Otherwise it just looks like you are simply applying a post purchase justification. I tell myself I don't really want a 911 RS because my car is faster anyway...but really I know this is the same justification post purchase

JamesHayward said:

And yes Noger, I am sponsored by MEV (on a you break it, you buy it policy), not going to deny that. But my opinions on the car are my own opinions from before the sponsorship was in place. The car is damn good, easiest way to describe it is a go-kart with a gearbox

We had the same with the KTM lot. The ones making the most noise owned KTM dealerships and the like. Excuse me if I don't believe threads like this are all they seem.

JamesHayward said:

To back up my previous statement I'm not saying the Exocet is a better car than the R300. What I'm saying is that I believe it to be a better all round package. Think Nissan GTR vs 911 Turbo

You can buy both of new those at a dealership. Can I get an Exocet on a 62 plate later in the year ?

[Ferg]

I think actually, that the problem with this thread is the title.

There is no such thing as a 'Caterham Lotus 7'.

If the question is: 'Is the MEV Exocet the modern day Caterham 7 ?'
Then the answer is, 'No, The Caterham 7 is.'

If the question is: 'Is the MEV Exocet the modern day Lotus 7 ?'
Then the answer is, 'Yes, it probably is.'

[Noger]

TheFreak said:

Also, there is the option to fit either the Mk2 or 2.5 engines to increase power upto 140-150bhp.
So going for the lightweight chassis, with the later VVT engine I'm sure the time will be in the high 1:30s at Anglesey. They were already low 1:40s. I could have got into the 40s given a few more laps but as it was the first outing of the car in the dry I wasn't pushing as hard as I could... still learning

Ah, so if you change the chassis and the engine, you can go faster...blimey, who knew. Can I swap my S3 for the Lola chassis and supercharged Duratec then please....

My point about lap times was largely prompted by the rather sneering attitude from Stuart Mills (no surprise there, nothing like some self promotion and lies on PH to try to sell your car - shame it doesn't sell itself) about his cars and the Caterham Academy cars (which he failed to mention, he just said "the fastest Caterham") that you shared an event with. You will find pretty much every post from him like that (which is why I assume he gets banned). "MEV sets fastest lap at Silverstone against everything (....well, against some old MX5s)".

TheFreak said:

Obviously the 7 has the market share and the brand to go with it, but for something that looks a bit different to the 7 mould which everyone seems to go for (MK, Westfield, Tiger, Stryker, Aries, Robin Hood) you've got to go a long way to find something to match the performance the Exocet will give.

Probably quite a few in the RGB that would give it a run for its money. But I agree about it looking a bit different to everything else, and the stripped down Rocket looks amazing. Love it.

[Noger]

Ferg said:

I think actually, that the problem with this thread is the title.

There is no such thing as a 'Caterham Lotus 7'.

If the question is: 'Is the MEV Exocet the modern day Caterham 7 ?'
Then the answer is, 'No, The Caterham 7 is.'

If the question is: 'Is the MEV Exocet the modern day Lotus 7 ?'
Then the answer is, 'Yes, it probably is.'

And we probably need to get to the bottom of exactly who Colin Chatman is

[v8will]

No, I do not believe that the cars are directly comparable but the Exocet seems to have earned it's place in a short space of time.

Styling aside I think MEV have nailed the business model. A cheap quality component car based on an excellent donor which offers ease of build and ease of registration. They seem to be selling very well and for the very fact the car commands such debate already says something.

Enough has been said on the design of the 7, perhaps that goes along way to it's longevity. Developed over the years but nigh on perfect 50 years ago. Worthy of the premium it commands now, probably but affordability is the biggie for alot of us now. I could realistically afford an Exocet whereas a Caterham is alot of money to tie up. Sure you could have a 7 style car in a Robin Hood kit but they look worse and I can't see them driving anything like as well as a 7 or Exocet.

I've never driven one but can't help but think that even neigh sayers would have a go and come out thinking that the exocet was alot of fun which is surely the point of these cars?