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BusaMK
295 posts
18 months
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When out in the states, picking a lady up for dinner in a car with a manual box gets me laid. It doesn't even matter what car it is, they always notice the stick. enough said.
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Sump
1,585 posts
36 months
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BusaMK said: When out in the states, picking a lady up for dinner in a car with a manual box gets me laid. It doesn't even matter what car it is, they always notice the stick. enough said. BusaMK said: A crap manual gearbox should resign the designer to hell, as it only gives the auto-loving lobby reasons for blasphemy. When out in the states, whenever I've picked a lady up for date in a manual car they always seem to notice this far more than what car it actually is. Gigidi! Gahahaahahahahahaahhahahahaa. Oh how embarrassingly cringeworthy. 
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Hasbeen
900 posts
90 months
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Lucas Ayde said: Hasbeen said: I guess it's an age thing. I like to drive the car myself, not push a button or 2, & watch the electronics do it for me.
I can't stand paddles, or sequential. I did not go back through the box of cogs when driving formula stuff in the 60s, It was always one change to the required gear, & find it too much video game stuff today. Auto driving aids take the skill out, & takes the enjoyment with it, at least for me, on the road. I suppose which skills give you most pleasure, depend on what you developed those skills driving. I have never raced with them, so my judgement is only an extension of road experience, & not a true judgement of course.
I was marveling at the reliability of modern F1 cars while watching the Spanish GP, & also at how few skills are required to drive one. Watching it with an in car camera I could not help but think these blokes would not last 5 laps with the old gear. Granted with modern brakes there would be even less gear change time, but a hurried driver requires more skill.
No necessary control of gear changes, hit the back button as many times as you require, & the electronics take over, & change the gear as the revs drop. As I said video game stuff.
Most cars blew up coming out of corners in my day, because they had been over revved on the over run going in, as the driver over revved to get a gear in time for entry. It was rare that engines were over revved accelerating. Watching a driver sitting there, both hands on the wheel, with no visible movement, as they went back 4 gears flicking an invisible finger, was really a bit boring.
This is no judgement of drivers of yesterday against today, you can only drive the cars on offer, & top drivers of any age are probably similarly skilled. However the contrived circumstances & reduced range of skills required today may kill the thing. Indy cars suffered when they made the races a high speed economy drive, & todays F1 high speed tyre endurance runs will probably loose many also. Wow Bro, you should be a Formula One driver or something. You're clearly much better at driving than skill-less playstation gamers like Button, Vettel or Alonso. For any who are interested, I did say number [few] of skills, not level. There is a very real difference. I have often wondered what these things are like, they seem to turn in so hard, but then we don't have good film of the old stuff, only stills. Yes our cars were Formula one, but related to the 60s 2.5L formula. Some were new current F1 cars, [as was that BT23B Jack brought out here], built for our UK guests that came out here each Christmas for our international series, [the Tasman Series], in NZ & Oz, fitted with a 2.5L. This was a 2.5L version of the 3.0L engine Jack used to win the World F1 championship. We bought these cars to race here. Have you ever tried to afford a current F1 car? Those with the last formulas engines, even new cars, were much more affordable, so that's what Oz went with. My observation was on perhaps a reason why the modern cars are so much more reliable, & weather it is because of modern electronics, making it easier for the factory to protect their car from the driver. Also for any interested, there is only one reason I did not come to the UK, & take on all those top names. Having raced against them, in a slightly older car, here in Oz I did know how good I was. It was not quite good enough. Phil West. A hasbeen, & proud of it. Oh & heebeegeetee, just god will do, you can leave the dear out thanks.
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DonkeyApple
12,019 posts
38 months
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A modest Australian!!!!!! Have you seen a doctor about this? 
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thinfourth2
23,577 posts
73 months
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I used to feel this way until i owned a caterham with the 6 speed box while not as good as a honda civic apparently it does make most other manuals feel a bit s  t. So for a daily driver i'd be happy with an auto For a fun car always manual I don't care if flappy paddles are faster I want to change gears.
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heebeegeetee
19,534 posts
117 months
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Hasbeen said: Oh & heebeegeetee, just god will do, you can leave the dear out thanks.  I presume your comment was tongue in cheek though.
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PumpkinSteve
1,802 posts
25 months
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My next car will definitely have to have some kind of DSG-type gearbox. I wouldn't consider buying any other kind of auto box though.
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Hasbeen
900 posts
90 months
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heebeegeetee said: I presume your comment was tongue in cheek though. I think I bit it.
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R300will
3,603 posts
20 months
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PumpkinSteve said: My next car will definitely have to have some kind of DSG-type gearbox. I wouldn't consider buying any other kind of auto box though. I wouldn't mind a sequential but i think that's as far as i will go.
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ArosaMike
727 posts
80 months
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Hasbeen said: For any who are interested, I did say number [few] of skills, not level. There is a very real difference.
I have often wondered what these things are like, they seem to turn in so hard, but then we don't have good film of the old stuff, only stills.
Yes our cars were Formula one, but related to the 60s 2.5L formula. Some were new current F1 cars, [as was that BT23B Jack brought out here], built for our UK guests that came out here each Christmas for our international series, [the Tasman Series], in NZ & Oz, fitted with a 2.5L. This was a 2.5L version of the 3.0L engine Jack used to win the World F1 championship.
We bought these cars to race here. Have you ever tried to afford a current F1 car? Those with the last formulas engines, even new cars, were much more affordable, so that's what Oz went with.
My observation was on perhaps a reason why the modern cars are so much more reliable, & weather it is because of modern electronics, making it easier for the factory to protect their car from the driver.
Also for any interested, there is only one reason I did not come to the UK, & take on all those top names. Having raced against them, in a slightly older car, here in Oz I did know how good I was. It was not quite good enough.
Phil West. A hasbeen, & proud of it.
Oh & heebeegeetee, just god will do, you can leave the dear out thanks. Sorry for the thread hijack, but I absolutely love the 60s era of F1 cars. The last/pinicle of racing before the advent of Aero really and all the better for it. Thanks for the info and also made all the best by the modesty  This, I suspect, means you were actually probably quite good :P
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R300will
3,603 posts
20 months
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Hasbeen said: Lucas Ayde said: Hasbeen said: I guess it's an age thing. I like to drive the car myself, not push a button or 2, & watch the electronics do it for me.
I can't stand paddles, or sequential. I did not go back through the box of cogs when driving formula stuff in the 60s, It was always one change to the required gear, & find it too much video game stuff today. Auto driving aids take the skill out, & takes the enjoyment with it, at least for me, on the road. I suppose which skills give you most pleasure, depend on what you developed those skills driving. I have never raced with them, so my judgement is only an extension of road experience, & not a true judgement of course.
I was marveling at the reliability of modern F1 cars while watching the Spanish GP, & also at how few skills are required to drive one. Watching it with an in car camera I could not help but think these blokes would not last 5 laps with the old gear. Granted with modern brakes there would be even less gear change time, but a hurried driver requires more skill.
No necessary control of gear changes, hit the back button as many times as you require, & the electronics take over, & change the gear as the revs drop. As I said video game stuff.
Most cars blew up coming out of corners in my day, because they had been over revved on the over run going in, as the driver over revved to get a gear in time for entry. It was rare that engines were over revved accelerating. Watching a driver sitting there, both hands on the wheel, with no visible movement, as they went back 4 gears flicking an invisible finger, was really a bit boring.
This is no judgement of drivers of yesterday against today, you can only drive the cars on offer, & top drivers of any age are probably similarly skilled. However the contrived circumstances & reduced range of skills required today may kill the thing. Indy cars suffered when they made the races a high speed economy drive, & todays F1 high speed tyre endurance runs will probably loose many also. Wow Bro, you should be a Formula One driver or something. You're clearly much better at driving than skill-less playstation gamers like Button, Vettel or Alonso. For any who are interested, I did say number [few] of skills, not level. There is a very real difference. I have often wondered what these things are like, they seem to turn in so hard, but then we don't have good film of the old stuff, only stills. Yes our cars were Formula one, but related to the 60s 2.5L formula. Some were new current F1 cars, [as was that BT23B Jack brought out here], built for our UK guests that came out here each Christmas for our international series, [the Tasman Series], in NZ & Oz, fitted with a 2.5L. This was a 2.5L version of the 3.0L engine Jack used to win the World F1 championship. We bought these cars to race here. Have you ever tried to afford a current F1 car? Those with the last formulas engines, even new cars, were much more affordable, so that's what Oz went with. My observation was on perhaps a reason why the modern cars are so much more reliable, & weather it is because of modern electronics, making it easier for the factory to protect their car from the driver. Also for any interested, there is only one reason I did not come to the UK, & take on all those top names. Having raced against them, in a slightly older car, here in Oz I did know how good I was. It was not quite good enough. Phil West. A hasbeen, & proud of it. Oh & heebeegeetee, just god will do, you can leave the dear out thanks. I think it's more to do with better machining techniques allowing finer tolerances and more accurate construction of engines etc. Meaning they can handle larger forces better. also electronics stop drivers over-revving and stuff so it helps manage excessive loads that way. Mainly its improved technology in the build process though i recon.
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Lucas Ayde
507 posts
37 months
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Hasbeen said: I was. Then you should be out there now winning races if it's so easy these days. Edit: I do recognise that there was a lot of skill involved in racing older cars and full respect for that, but I doubt that the current cars are objectively 'easy' to race just because they have more advanced systems.
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stew-S160
6,064 posts
107 months
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I've never owned an Auto car, nor a DIEsel. If it came down to it, I'd take a DIEsel over an Auto car though, due to current fuel costs.
However, a good Auto VS a bad Manual, tougher choice.
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Hasbeen
900 posts
90 months
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Lucas Ayde said: Then you should be out there now winning races if it's so easy these days.
Edit: I do recognise that there was a lot of skill involved in racing older cars and full respect for that, but I doubt that the current cars are objectively 'easy' to race just because they have more advanced systems.
Mate, I wish you folk would read more slowly. What I said was less SKILLS, not less SKILL. I believe the top people from any era are probably of very similar ability, but todays bunch would have to relearn some skills they don't currently require. Today there is no one handed exiting from a corner, as you have to change gear before finishing the exit, No clutch work, No actually moving a gear stick & perhaps missing a gear, & no chance of over revving as the electronics won't let you. I'll give you an example of what that means. Bathurst had 2 humps down conrod. The second hump was killing too many people, so they built the chase, & eliminated it. Our wingless cars took off over the second hump, at anything over about 155 MPH. However, no one had told me this, & my previous F11 was only doing 150 MPH. The first time I came flat down the straight in practice, the hump gave me no problems handling wise, but I pulled 11500 RPM on an engine red lined at 9700 RPM while in the air. Luckily it didn't break, & a quick pit stop reset the tell tale needle. A rev limiter would have prevented this problem, as would the down force of wings. I then spent 5 laps trying to find some way of taking the hump at around 180 MPH, without killing the engine. Backing off when I thought was the right time resulted in landing with too few revs, lots of smoke from the rear tyres, & a huge fishtail. At 180 MPH, not to be recommended. It did mean that a flag waver could pace from where they saw the car leave the track, to the black landing mark, & tell me later, I flew 173 Ft. Hitting the clutch resulted some rather hairy fishtail slides, & me wondering if I really was up to this thing. Luckily in the Castrol tent, having a coffee I overheard a couple of top drivers discussing the speed to take the hump. You can imagine I was somewhat relieved to hear them decide anything over 155 MPH was too dangerous. As I said, it would not happen in todays cars, so one less lesson to learn. Incidentally you should hear what Button said about Bathurst when he did a demo run a couple of years back in the F1. I think he is very jealous of all of us who have raced quick open wheelers around the place. Oh, & I'd better not beat any of them. I doubt if their egos could stand a wrinkly 72 year old blowing them off.
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exitwound
348 posts
49 months
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PaulB81 said: As others have said, it depends on the car. My Elise would be utter crap with an autobox. Its for b-road blasts and really 'driving'. My XJ8 is an auto, its for wafting along effortlessly. It suits the autobox perfectly. My neighbour has an Elise and during our morning 8 mile commute, he cannot outrun, outbrake, or outcorner my '87 auto Corvette! Try actually driving the Jag and you might get a surprise!
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bigdom
420 posts
14 months
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billywhizzzzzz said: I seem to be alone! I have a e90 330d m sport touring for everyday - considered a 335d momentarily until of course realised that I couldn't get a 335d manual. Yes, I know it's quicker, more torque etc than my 330d but I just cannot ever imagine wanting an auto - irrespective of how much torque it would have, how easy in traffic etc. I'm also amazed on here (of all places) how often I read that people were suspicious of autos until they had one, and now they love it (because it's so effortless). has anyone ever loved one because an auto is BETTER to drive, more thrilling, more visceral, more fun, better feedback, more control - in fact anything whatsoever that petrol heads generally enjoy, even in my pretty ordinary commuting car....!? Just cant imagine driving without the mechanical shift... and yes, I have tried an auto, even owned a tiptronic! Yes. Whichever way you try and play it, a diesel with a manual box, is still a diesel with a manual box, it's not a drivers car, I know, I have one! I have manual and auto cars, both good for there own things. Also have a manual motorbike 
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heebeegeetee
19,534 posts
117 months
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Hasbeen said: Mate, I wish you folk would read more slowly.
What I said was less SKILLS, not less SKILL. I believe the top people from any era are probably of very similar ability, but todays bunch would have to relearn some skills they don't currently require.
I think the top drivers would take on pretty much anything you throw at them and always have done. Having said that, our very own dynamic duo at McL have talked of overload, when failing to see red lights or pulling in to the wrong pit etc.
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RYH64E
3,090 posts
113 months
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exitwound said: My neighbour has an Elise and during our morning 8 mile commute, he cannot outrun, outbrake, or outcorner my '87 auto Corvette! Try actually driving the Jag and you might get a surprise! I can only think of three scenarios where this could happen, i) your 8 mile commute is on a dead straight road with no bends at all, ii) you both stick to the speed limits religiously, or iii) your neighbour is 70 years old, wears a hat and drives like a muppet (no disrespect meanty to any 72 year old ex F1 drivers who might be reading this...). Or I suppose it could be that your neighbour is not really trying while you drive your Corvette like you stole it. An Elise is possibly the quickest thing on B roads apart from a well driven bike.
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ArosaMike
727 posts
80 months
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Lucas Ayde said: Then you should be out there now winning races if it's so easy these days.
Edit: I do recognise that there was a lot of skill involved in racing older cars and full respect for that, but I doubt that the current cars are objectively 'easy' to race just because they have more advanced systems. What an hilariously ignorant comment. Stop trying to make a point and accept that he did actually race at the top of the sport in his time and is still probably pretty handy behind the wheel. There are a whole host of reasons why he isn't in an F1 car now....most are the same reasons why there are plenty of very capable/talented drivers out there who never get the chance to even test an F1 car.
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otolith
19,372 posts
73 months
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exitwound said: PaulB81 said: As others have said, it depends on the car. My Elise would be utter crap with an autobox. Its for b-road blasts and really 'driving'. My XJ8 is an auto, its for wafting along effortlessly. It suits the autobox perfectly. My neighbour has an Elise and during our morning 8 mile commute, he cannot outrun, outbrake, or outcorner my '87 auto Corvette! Try actually driving the Jag and you might get a surprise! I don't think he was making a point about going quicker, he was making a point about enjoying it. Most of us could go quicker by employing a racing driver as a chauffeur, but it wouldn't make driving any more enjoyable.
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