RE: 770hp and 94mpg for Porsche 918 Spyder

[caine100]

kambites said:

peter450 said:

kambites said:

Various places seem to say Ferrari are targeting 1000kg for the F70, although I wont believe that until I see a production model one on a set of scales.

Yeah, Ferrari are ultra ruthless in having there cars portrayed in the best possible light, and seem to go to extremes others dont, so i wont beleive it either till i see an actual customer car there not expecting anyone to weigh, on a set of scales at 1000kg

To be fair though, it'd be a shock if it's over about 1400kg? It certainly wont be 1700! From what I've read, I think it's reasonable to assume that it'll be lighter than the Enzo, which is about 1400kg.

The Enzo weighed around 1400kg and that didn't have to lug around 150kg of hybrid tech. Lamborghini couldn't get their Sesto Elemento concept homologated for road use at 999kg. I'd say 1400kg is looking like the least they are going to weigh.

[V8Bart]

Where has side exhaust gone? and the rear facing cameras that replaced those huge wing mirrors?
The concept was stunning, but by the time this comes out it will be a 911 with a fancy hybrid engine and body kit.

[caine100]

GroundEffect said:

you can energise the rear wing to a greater extent using the exhaust gasses.

It would be cool if they went down that route. It would give them something unique over Ferrari and McLaren.

peter450 said:

i think it's as much down to wanting to have a unique selling point

Maybe, but somewhat less so when the competition are doing the same.

[964Cup]

Sure, there's still a 5% benefit in kind charge - about £32k PA. On the other hand, it will qualify as a low-emission vehicle if the 70g/km figure is achieved. In which case you can claim 100% capital allowances against the acquisition cost in the first year.

In other words, you save very roughly £300k compared to paying for it out of taxed dividend income. Run it for three years as a company car (cost to you roughly £40k in cash terms (at 45% marginal tax rate) but again you can put all the running costs such as insurance through the business). Then it'll have depreciated to nothing on the balance sheet and you can buy it from the company for peanuts.

Effectively it means that if you own your own business and could afford a 599 you can afford a 918.

[zebedee]

964Cup said:

Sure, there's still a 5% benefit in kind charge - about £32k PA. On the other hand, it will qualify as a low-emission vehicle if the 70g/km figure is achieved. In which case you can claim 100% capital allowances against the acquisition cost in the first year.

In other words, you save very roughly £300k compared to paying for it out of taxed dividend income. Run it for three years as a company car (cost to you roughly £40k in cash terms (at 45% marginal tax rate) but again you can put all the running costs such as insurance through the business). Then it'll have depreciated to nothing on the balance sheet and you can buy it from the company for peanuts.

Effectively it means that if you own your own business and could afford a 599 you can afford a 918.

and yet more proof that the 'system' is totally screwed. Especially when the sort of person that would play the system like that is highly likely to be one that would then close the business down and leave creditors high and dry without a care in the world about their cashflow.

[Glosole]

The Colour is not Gulf inspired but Shell ? as far as I remember Gulf could only win at Le Mans in the Movies with the Porsche 917 though it did win it with the Ford GT40 in 1969 when the John Wyer team car beat all the Porsches.

[jakesmith]

DId anyone see Evo's coverage of this, I thought it was poor, this car looks frickin awesome

[freedman]

Glosole said:

The Colour is not Gulf inspired but Shell ? as far as I remember Gulf could only win at Le Mans in the Movies with the Porsche 917 though it did win it with the Ford GT40 in 1969 when the John Wyer team car beat all the Porsches.

Porsche Salzburg design

Gulf also won with Mirage in 1975

[Some Gump]

aahhhhh!!

It's not "pandering to the eu rules", it's bringing current race technology to the road.

Do that in a F40 / F1 / whatever, and you're a hero. Do it with KERS / hybrid and it's wrong??

The hybrid is from Williams F1. As seen in a pretty damn sucessful GT3 hybrid, and coming soon to a Le Mans near you in Porsche's next attack on the worlds greatest race.

Yeah, it's totally gay. It's only there to attract company car drivers from their 320d ED's. Hell, I bet it can't even hit 94mpg round the nordschlife, what a heap of st. etc.

[E38Ross]

Some Gump said:

aahhhhh!!

It's not "pandering to the eu rules", it's bringing current race technology to the road.

Do that in a F40 / F1 / whatever, and you're a hero. Do it with KERS / hybrid and it's wrong??

The hybrid is from Williams F1. As seen in a pretty damn sucessful GT3 hybrid, and coming soon to a Le Mans near you in Porsche's next attack on the worlds greatest race.

Yeah, it's totally gay. It's only there to attract company car drivers from their 320d ED's. Hell, I bet it can't even hit 94mpg round the nordschlife, what a heap of st. etc.

The tech is brilliant. It's in the wrong car though. I can't see 320d owners being able to afford this somehow.

[peter450]

caine100 said:

GroundEffect said:

you can energise the rear wing to a greater extent using the exhaust gasses.

It would be cool if they went down that route. It would give them something unique over Ferrari and McLaren.

peter450 said:

i think it's as much down to wanting to have a unique selling point

Maybe, but somewhat less so when the competition are doing the same.

I'm not sure of any other Hybrid supercars on the horizon?? correct me if i'm wrong, except maybe the Jag concept, which has already ditched the concept cars mini turbine engine for a v6 or somesuch.

I see echoes of the XJ220 here with a over promise (wow everyone with a concept) and under deliver (on the production car) effort, maybe i'm wrong, but i'm more of a sceptic as to Jag's effort than porsches

And i have a soft spot for Jag's too

[wtdoom]

Some Gump said:

aahhhhh!!

It's not "pandering to the eu rules", it's bringing current race technology to the road.

Do that in a F40 / F1 / whatever, and you're a hero. Do it with KERS / hybrid and it's wrong??

The hybrid is from Williams F1. As seen in a pretty damn sucessful GT3 hybrid, and coming soon to a Le Mans near you in Porsche's next attack on the worlds greatest race.

Yeah, it's totally gay. It's only there to attract company car drivers from their 320d ED's. Hell, I bet it can't even hit 94mpg round the nordschlife, what a heap of st. etc.

Fyi It's nothing like the gt3 hybrid mate . That uses a trick flywheel next to the driver this uses hundreds of kilos of battery and traditional hybrid drive utilising 3 electric motors that work through a PDK gearbox to an occasional 4wd system .

Edited by wtdoom on Wednesday 16th May 18:26

[freedman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0f-l1eCD-Y

http://www.porsche.com/usa/aboutporsche/pressrelea...

[GroundEffect]

caine100 said:

GroundEffect said:

you can energise the rear wing to a greater extent using the exhaust gasses.

It would be cool if they went down that route. It would give them something unique over Ferrari and McLaren.

I'm sure I read somewhere that Ferrari have tuned the diffuser and exhaust setup on the 458 so that the exhaust is scavenged at speed, improving volumetric efficiency of the engine. I need to look for a link for that, though.

[E38Ross]

freedman said:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0f-l1eCD-Y

http://www.porsche.com/usa/aboutporsche/pressrelea...

from reading that, it seems to offer less performance than the WAY cheaper McLaren 12C though? if that's the case, won't the new McLaren due in another 2 or so years time(?) wipe the floor with this considering it's supposed to be considerably quicker than the 12C?

[dunc_sx]

Only seen the vid, it's on the evo site under supercars, he's impressed with all the tech etc but says there's a lot of work still to do - Sounds like he goes further into the negatives in the mag review. Thanks for correcting me though, my memory's worse than I thought!

Dunc.

[freedman]

Some Gump said:

aahhhhh!!

It's not "pandering to the eu rules", it's bringing current race technology to the road.

Do that in a F40 / F1 / whatever, and you're a hero. Do it with KERS / hybrid and it's wrong??

The hybrid is from Williams F1. As seen in a pretty damn sucessful GT3 hybrid, and coming soon to a Le Mans near you in Porsche's next attack on the worlds greatest race.

Yeah, it's totally gay. It's only there to attract company car drivers from their 320d ED's. Hell, I bet it can't even hit 94mpg round the nordschlife, what a heap of st. etc.

918RSR is KERS (like the 911GT3R Hybrid that has raced over the last couple of years)

Road car is a different system all together

[danny84]

Correct me if i'm wrong.If Honda or Toyota can't get 94 mpg with their hybrids how can porsche.I know it's a different system but when its all working together surely a v8/electric can't acheive better mpg than a 1.6/electric.

[GroundEffect]

danny84 said:

Correct me if i'm wrong.If Honda or Toyota can't get 94 mpg with their hybrids how can porsche.I know it's a different system but when its all working together surely a v8/electric can't acheive better mpg than a 1.6/electric.

The 94mpg will be with a fully charged KERS/Hybrid system I'm assuming. Once depleted it'll drop significantly.

[Nuttypaco]

Aarrgghh!!... A Porsche design I actually like and it's a weird hybrid. If Porsche claim 94mpg, it must be true after all whose ever heard of a car manufacturer making spurious claims about mpg,?