RE: PH Fleet: Lotus Elise Sport 135

[pthelazyjourno]

Balls, you bought the wrong magazine. None of this 911 is best crap:

[PhilJames]

Captain Muppet said:

How is reading an old magazine report on a car you already bought ironic?

It isn't.

Looking for vindication from a report written by EVO; who write their report with vindication from their readers in mind, is.

[wy906]

EDLT said:

TonyHetherington said:

I read an interesting column by Harry M in evo a few months ago (I'm pretty sure it was HM), anyway - it said that for all the comments and criticisms that magazines make on particular cars - often, the public don't pay any attention at all. I think it singled out Audi sports suspension and bigger wheels as an example.

Interesting stuff

Evo said the Renaultsport Megane handled better on the standard 18" wheels, then put 19s on their long-termer. I've got an issue somewhere where they put 20" (I think) wheels on a Focus ST. So they don't listen to their own advice.

They are all "semi-professional racing drivers" though, and they really did dab oppos on the way to the office this morning. Honest.

Richard Meaden July 10: I know some of you will feel the 19in rims are a controversial choice, but aside from the fact that I like the way they look, I genuinely thought it would be useful to see if they compromise the dynamics, as I’m sure some of you might be tempted by them too.

Richard Meaden August 10: The 19in Conti tyres coped well too, although having also tried another journo’s long-term Mégane 250 with 18in rims, I have to admit that the more modestly shod car was more amusingly responsive to provocation on track. A short-term wheel swap could be on the cards

I thought it’s a fair and honest review. How many of us would have a chance to try both? At least for us ‘mortals’ there’s a reference for future purchase.

As for the ST; well it was run by Andy Morgan the photographer, but at least he put his hands up saying that he had ruined the handling.

[BBS-LM]

I heard load of storeys from people with Elise who say when the backend goes it gone, and this video shows that theory very well.

[Captain Muppet]

PhilJames said:

Captain Muppet said:

How is reading an old magazine report on a car you already bought ironic?

It isn't.

Looking for vindication from a report written by EVO; who write their report with vindication from their readers in mind, is.

Go on, treat yourself, use "validation" or "confirmation".

Also are you this paraniod about everything? Do Evo really only write things so I'll feel good about the car I've already bought? I don't really care because I don't buy Evo, it just seems needlessly complex and convoluted and I sort of assumed journos were lazy.

Edited by Captain Muppet on Thursday 17th May 17:03

[Captain Muppet]

BBS-LM said:

I heard load of storeys from people with Elise who say when the backend goes it gone, and this video shows that theory very well.

I experience my Elise differently to your stories. I realise a sample size of one is statistically insignificant.

[crusty cobb]

When the back end goes it goes realy quick if you lift off, I’ve had a few. Calculated speed and constant gas through corners they go realy fast and settled

[PhilJames]

Captain Muppet said:

Go on, treat yourself, use "validation" or "confirmation".

Also are you this paraniod about everything? Do Evo really only write things so I'll feel good about the car I've already bought? I don't really care because I don't buy Evo, it just seems needlessly complex and convoluted and I sort of assumed journos were lazy.

Edited by Captain Muppet on Thursday 17th May 17:03

Nickname: Captain Muppet
Name: Captain James T Muppet
Member Since: 21st March 2002
Total Posts: 2,239
Occupation: internet irritant

Well at least you got the bit about you right. Why bother getting so worked up, you don't have to agree.

[chevronb37]

Captain Muppet said:

BBS-LM said:

I heard load of storeys from people with Elise who say when the backend goes it gone, and this video shows that theory very well.

I experience my Elise differently to your stories. I realise a sample size of one is statistically insignificant.

Despite being bestowed with all the driving talent of an Indian elephant, I've managed not to spin an Elise or Exige. Every time the rear has wavered some tiny part of my brain operating mercifully without conscious input has managed to correct it and we've continued. Even a moment through Anglesey's fearsome Church corner was collected without incident. They can be flightly little buggers but what would one expect from something mid-engined which weighs 750kg? The major advantage they have is the wonderful communication. The thin seats, stiff chassis and lack of steering assistance means you are being reasonably well communicated to. Then it's up to your synapses to respond. Of course all this relies on one travelling quickly enough to have a 'moment'. That's mostly where I fall down...

[juansolo]

PhilJames said:

This is why so many people hail the MX5 and Porsche, not because they are actually any good but just to be seen as being 'right' by repeating the ever recycled vindication.

Except they are really good...

[JADCampbell]

Elises aren't designed or set up for power oversteer out of the box, and if you have less than 200bhp, you'll struggle to do it in the dry at all. They have too much traction. If you want to get the tail moving around in the dry, you have to do it by provoking it under braking. That said, its bloody hard to do accurately and more often than not, I can't bring it back into line neatly, and frequently not at all. It is a lot easier to do in my car since giving the car stiffer suspension as the inside rear tyre isn't unloaded so much and the lack of an LSD is less of an issue.

Go back to Abbeville in the wet and you'll learn more about the car in half a day than you ever thought possible. An Elise is never going to slide like an MX5, but it's still fun trying.

Edited by JADCampbell on Thursday 17th May 19:28

[slipstream 1985]

TonyHetherington said:

I read an interesting column by Harry M in evo a few months ago (I'm pretty sure it was HM), anyway - it said that for all the comments and criticisms that magazines make on particular cars - often, the public don't pay any attention at all. I think it singled out Audi sports suspension and bigger wheels as an example.

Interesting stuff

i read that too

[TallTom]

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/irony for PhilJames!

[3doorPete]

Nice article.

Regarding the video - Bit of advice to the OP who looked to be having fun - An Elise is easy to unsettle by coming on and off the throttle mid bend like you are doing, but with no LSD and not much power, the only way to properly drift them is to turn in on the brakes carrying a tad too much speed. As it oversteers on the way in, you can carry the drift all the way through the corner in spite of the limited power. It just takes more commitment - like 'drifting'/oversteering a front drive car.

My old Elise was roughly 135 spec, but I had Sinclairs put a 340R road geometry on it which meant zero understeer and rapid turn in making the above drifting by turning in off the throttle or trail braking even easier.

Before I had the S2 suspension and 340R set, you could still have fun (in the days before TDOs black flag you for any kind of sideways fun) as below. Series of 3 pics about 8 years ago from just after turn in on the brakes to mid drift.

[Danny Milner]

3doorPete said:

Nice article.

Regarding the video - Bit of advice to the OP who looked to be having fun - An Elise is easy to unsettle by coming on and off the throttle mid bend like you are doing, but with no LSD and not much power, the only way to properly drift them is to turn in on the brakes carrying a tad too much speed. As it oversteers on the way in, you can carry the drift all the way through the corner in spite of the limited power. It just takes more commitment - like 'drifting'/oversteering a front drive car.

My old Elise was roughly 135 spec, but I had Sinclairs put a 340R road geometry on it which meant zero understeer and rapid turn in making the above drifting by turning in off the throttle or trail braking even easier.

Before I had the S2 suspension and 340R set, you could still have fun (in the days before TDOs black flag you for any kind of sideways fun) as below. Series of 3 pics about 8 years ago from just after turn in on the brakes to mid drift.

Nice work! You didn't have a Clio 182 did you? I seem to remember watching a great video from brands in the wet with lots of lairy sideways french hatchback action.

[3doorPete]

Danny Milner said:

Nice work! You didn't have a Clio 182 did you? I seem to remember watching a great video from brands in the wet with lots of lairy sideways french hatchback action.

Thanks - I did - a 172 Cup and a Cup packed 182.

I have a few vids from the 182 up on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlu_DmNShzs

Getting the Clios to slide had more in common with getting an Elise to oversteer than when I used to drift my modified 3dr Cosworth or TVR Chimaeras - with them it was all about a bit of extra turn in at any point and playing with the power. LSDs and lots of torque/power. No videos I can safely post of them though

[Danny Milner]

3doorPete said:

Thanks - I did - a 172 Cup and a Cup packed 182.

I have a few vids from the 182 up on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlu_DmNShzs

Getting the Clios to slide had more in common with getting an Elise to oversteer than when I used to drift my modified 3dr Cosworth or TVR Chimaeras - with them it was all about a bit of extra turn in at any point and playing with the power. LSDs and lots of torque/power. No videos I can safely post of them though

It was the 182 vid I remember. I had one Before the Elise and it was hilarious how sideway you could get it in the wet with the stability control off.

[3doorPete]

Danny Milner said:

3doorPete said:

Thanks - I did - a 172 Cup and a Cup packed 182.

I have a few vids from the 182 up on youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlu_DmNShzs

Getting the Clios to slide had more in common with getting an Elise to oversteer than when I used to drift my modified 3dr Cosworth or TVR Chimaeras - with them it was all about a bit of extra turn in at any point and playing with the power. LSDs and lots of torque/power. No videos I can safely post of them though

It was the 182 vid I remember. I had one Before the Elise and it was hilarious how sideway you could get it in the wet with the stability control off.

Agreed - shame the later 07 onwards RS Clios are not a patch on the early ones.

The 172 Cup was the best and one of the few cars I regret selling. No ABS to trigger when you trail braked that would ruin you pivoting it on the nose.

[MadMark911]

Lovely car and brings back fond memories!

My Sport 135 had the Lotus Sport Suspension pack (I think they were height adjustable Koni's with Eibach springs) which made it feel quite different to the standard car. Obviously much lower and stiffer, but with a much tighter control over the damping.

Also with a few tweaks (50% larger airbox, a Raceline stainless steel exhaust manifold and system plus cat replacement pipe) - it produced 150bhp and 154lb/ft torque, which was nice as it went like a rocket compared to the standard car I drove before buying the 135! Oh and the noise from the exhaust was very "BDA" .... with lots of rasping, popping and banging on the overrun!

Edited by MadMark911 on Friday 18th May 09:07

[Captain Muppet]

PhilJames said:

Captain Muppet said:

Go on, treat yourself, use "validation" or "confirmation".

Also are you this paraniod about everything? Do Evo really only write things so I'll feel good about the car I've already bought? I don't really care because I don't buy Evo, it just seems needlessly complex and convoluted and I sort of assumed journos were lazy.

Edited by Captain Muppet on Thursday 17th May 17:03

Nickname: Captain Muppet
Name: Captain James T Muppet
Member Since: 21st March 2002
Total Posts: 2,239
Occupation: internet irritant

Well at least you got the bit about you right. Why bother getting so worked up, you don't have to agree.

Yes, the profile I wrote about my self is reasonably accurate. I'm not sure what your point is.

Also I'm not worked up, I'm just confused by your paranoid rambling. Why bother getting so worked up, you don't have to agree.

Although I'm a little upset you didn't cut and paste the line in my profile that made me giggle when I wrote it.