RE: SOTW: Fiat X1/9

[Ferg]

My mate Andy had a 1300. It was a lovely little thing. Notable for two things: Trips to the pub in it with three of us...yes, it is possible to travel in the front boot!! and the accident on the M1 in traffic when he was hit hard from the back and bent both front and back. My sister-in-law, who he was going out with at the time, still has treatment on her back for the 'whiplash' from the incident and that was in about 1984.

[TinyCappo]

cant you buy a kit which transposes all the running gear inc brakes and suspension into a kit version of a stratos for not too much money? Hawk Cars I believe?

Still nothing on a Japanese equivalent with a proper engine in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_PkswoXMx0

[Mastiff]

I LOST one of these once....

[firebird350]

ChrisJ. said:

The 2.0 Fiat twink must be one of the lightest iron block 4 cylinder engines around.
Would it have really have made such a difference?

There's several feasible engine transplants that have been successfully carried out but one of the nicest (and which really retains much of the standard car's characteristics whilst addressing the power shortage) is, according to one Frank Rizzuti of Avanti, to fit a 1600cc SOHC (yes, single!) straight from the later Fiat Tipo (but not the 16V).

Nice bit of useable extra torque from the extra 100cc, a little bit of gas-flowing to the crossflow head, choose a suitable fast-road camshaft and then top off with a pair of carefully-jetted downdraught carbs. It all goes straight in, dead easy and produces a lovely 'drive-able' result without compromising anything.

[khushy]

goodness - in 1984 I bought my first car - a 1.3 1972 Fiat X/19 - what a beauty, until I got it home that is!!!

Everything I know about car mechanics was honed on this car (I even remember the reg FRP 45T) . . .

brake discs that wouldnt come off
calipers that were seized with very dodgy home-made bleed screws
rear handbrake caliper piviots
brake pipes
electrics
synchromesh
gearbox bits
cam belt (snapped)
vales + guides + a skimmed head
clutch
alternator
distributor splines
wheel bearings
bodywork
interior suade leather
stereos
windscreens
wheels
sills

in the 9 onths I owned the car EVERYTHING that could go pop - did!!

khushy

[TVR Sagaris]

How difficult is it to convert a big bumper one of these to the prettier earlier style? I'm guessing you're left with four big holes that need welding up?

I've fancied one of these for a while.

[Silver Smudger]

TVR Sagaris said:

How difficult is it to convert a big bumper one of these to the prettier earlier style? I'm guessing you're left with four big holes that need welding up?

Don't know, but with one of these it is well worth learning how to weld anyway!

Edited by Silver Smudger on Saturday 19th May 16:45

[ChrisJ.]

firebird350 said:

There's several feasible engine transplants that have been successfully carried out but one of the nicest (and which really retains much of the standard car's characteristics whilst addressing the power shortage) is, according to one Frank Rizzuti of Avanti, to fit a 1600cc SOHC (yes, single!) straight from the later Fiat Tipo (but not the 16V).

Nice bit of useable extra torque from the extra 100cc, a little bit of gas-flowing to the crossflow head, choose a suitable fast-road camshaft and then top off with a pair of carefully-jetted downdraught carbs. It all goes straight in, dead easy and produces a lovely 'drive-able' result without compromising anything.

'Sounds like a sensible mod?

[ChrisJ.]

TVR Sagaris said:

How difficult is it to convert a big bumper one of these to the prettier earlier style? I'm guessing you're left with four big holes that need welding up?

I've fancied one of these for a while.

Here's a photo of an X1/9 that belonged to a chap I know.

He did this very conversion.
Later look with big bumpers to early (1300) look with smaller bumpers.
Here is the before and after of the same car:

[bimsb6]

khushy said:

goodness - in 1984 I bought my first car - a 1.3 1972 Fiat X/19 - what a beauty, until I got it home that is!!!

Everything I know about car mechanics was honed on this car (I even remember the reg FRP 45T) . . .

brake discs that wouldnt come off
calipers that were seized with very dodgy home-made bleed screws
rear handbrake caliper piviots
brake pipes
electrics
synchromesh
gearbox bits
cam belt (snapped)
vales + guides + a skimmed head
clutch
alternator
distributor splines
wheel bearings
bodywork
interior suade leather
stereos
windscreens
wheels
sills

in the 9 onths I owned the car EVERYTHING that could go pop - did!!

khushy

1979 not 1972

[trackerjack]

Wife had one of these in 1980 and provided you drive sanely they are fine but very tricky on the limit.
We both used to do sprints and hillclimbs and I used a TR5 which was safe but her X19 at Goodwood would either let go at the back or front making it very twitchy, it was fast for a 1300 but I would not want one.
Tin worm loves them.

[Ftumpch]

Ferg said:

...yes, it is possible to travel in the front boot!!

It's the experience of getting away with things like this that makes life worth living. Love it!

[jimbro1000]

ChrisJ. said:

'Sounds like a sensible mod?

The extra 100cc comes from a longer stroke and while this is consistent with some of the early long stroke conversions and does give extra grunt it compromises the rev-happy nature of the engine. It is great for regular driving but spoils the top-end. A 16v head on one of the shorter stroke engines would be a dream but they need a lot of conversion work to make it happen as things like the head bolt pattern was changed between those generations.

My original race car was prepared by Avanti and was a regular winner at hill climbs and sprints before I purchased it and converted it for track use. Some of the things we found on the car were quite alarming and I've no idea if it was the previous owner or Avanti responsible for them but it has always made me question the preparation work.

Dallara engineered a custom 16v head for competition purposes that was used with the 1500cc block and these are incredibly sought after items. New ones are non-existant so even a damaged head is worth fairly substantial money. The 8v head breathes very well though with some care and attention, coupled with forced induction it is quite astonishing, especially when you consider a well built engine will rev very high. On a dyno test we found our first engine would rev to 13k without trouble, it let go at just short of 15k when the oil pump gave up - the block was junk and the head badly damaged but still got £400 for it not bad for a lump of what we considered scrap. Found out a couple of years later that the buyer managed to repair the head and was still using it. Sadly the £400 barely covered the damage to the dyno cell.

With a dry sump and a suitable turbo I reckon we could have seen the naughty side of 600bhp out of the engine, absolutely no use for racing on track as it would be completely uncontrollable and the lag rendering it pretty much useless but on a drag strip it would have been something else. The first test engine was put into a stripped out Mk 1 Punto that was regularly used for such things - after just a few weeks no-one would race against it as it just beat everything. It wasn't mad boost either, less than 2 bar as the boost control hardware couldn't handle any more than that.

As for X1/9s on track, the short wheelbase (as I said before) makes them twitchy but with proper wheel alignment and some minor suspension upgrades they really are formidable. In Italy the Dallara cars are still setting records on the hill climbs (nothing like our hill climbs - more like tarmac rally stages) and in the USA they are only now going into decline as a popular choice for the SCCA autocross events in production and modified classes. In SCCA classic road-racing they are still popular and regularly upset the established order,

A standard example is still big fun regardless of where you are. Very few classics cars are as entertaining to drive and in competent hands properly quick - setting up a four wheel drift with little more than a twitch of the steering is easy to do and the amount of speed they can carry through a corner is just astonishing even on road tyres.

A few very minor upgrades resolves most of the gripes people have about them. Uno Turbo front brakes give you a far superior caliper design and vented discs, Fiat 132 rear calipers moves the bias to the rear a little and helps with stability under braking (never had that problem myself). Fresh dampers and springs works wonders too coupled with a four wheel alignment session. An electric fuel pump to overcome vapour lock in the fuel system after the engine is properly warmed and allowed to stand for a bit. Electronic ignition helps with that too. Fresh wiring from the battery to the starter and fusebox and good earthing resolves the rest. Everything else is just niggles and provided you look after the car (like any other classic - it needs TLC) then you are left with something that looks and drives just fantastic.

More power is available if you want it but a lot of people like them just the way they are (I'm not one of them if you hadn't guessed). The Mk1 Uno Turbo is a popular choice as it is more or less a straight swap, for more effort in the same stable the bigger 1600 is good too in 8v or 16v form. The bigger twin cam engine fits with some effort for the mounting points but adds unwelcome weight to the rear (it may be light for an old twin cam but it is still a fair bit more once coupled with the appropriate gearbox). There have been a few Alfa V6s fitted but it requires serious surgery. I've seen Mazda rotary engines fitted, Honda and Toyota engines, bike engines a plenty and I seem to remember someone squeezing a V8 in but I think that might border on insanity even for a petrol head, I've even seen jet engined versions.

[ChrisJ.]

jimbro1000 said:

There have been a few Alfa V6s fitted but it requires serious surgery. I've seen Mazda rotary engines fitted, Honda and Toyota engines, bike engines a plenty and I seem to remember someone squeezing a V8 in but I think that might border on insanity even for a petrol head, I've even seen jet engined versions.

A small mid engine car with a heavier engine doesn't work so well. Apart from in a straight line.
'Like tying to throw a hammer, shaft first.

[Ferg]

ChrisJ. said:

A small mid engine car with a heavier engine doesn't work so well. Apart from in a straight line.
'Like tying to throw a hammer, shaft first.

Best to have 730kgs with a 'K' in the back.

[Morningside]

Mastiff said:

I LOST one of these once....

Err.. how did you lose one?

[Paddy78]

Went to Malham in North Yorks today and there must have been a meet on or something, because there were about 20 of these buzzing about. They looked and sounded pretty nice!

[Ant1980]

Nice shed!

How about for a modern(ish) day equivalent - the Smart Roadster? Or is it just me?!

Mod edit: no adverts on the forums please

Edited by Matt172 on Sunday 20th May 20:14

[Randy Winkman]

10 pages without this picture? I used to stare at it for ages when I was a kid.

[rallycross]

Ant1980 said:

Nice shed!

How about for a modern(ish) day equivalent - the Smart Roadster? Or is it just me?!

Last time I drove an X/1-9 was late 80's - would love another go in one.

Last time I drove a Smart Roadster (Brabus model) was 2009 - never want to go in one again, just a balls-up of a design, whereas the X19 was innovative.

Edited by Matt172 on Sunday 20th May 20:13