School Transportation of P1's
Discussion
I'm not a parent. If I were, I would be incredibly unhappy with a teacher driving my child without my permission, full stop. I would have no way of knowing the teacher had any formal qualification to drive, any insurance covering such use, any equipment such as booster seats, any risk assessment dealing with emergency situations and so on.
I'm dead against 'claim culture' and children being deprived of school trips, but that's not to say by return I have to or should accept shoddy practice that would needlessly put my child or children in danger.
I'm dead against 'claim culture' and children being deprived of school trips, but that's not to say by return I have to or should accept shoddy practice that would needlessly put my child or children in danger.
Snowboy said:
And what if she did come to harm?
(I know that's a horrible thing to suggest about your kid, and it’s not a nice thing for you to consider.)
But would it not be tragic if your kid was badly injured in a car crash because of a lack of proper seating in a car crash that was caused by a near blind 55 year old teacher going the wrong way up a sliproad in their badly maintained car.
Imagine a situation where if you met the driver or saw the car you would not let your kid into it. But the school decided it was safe.
I would imagine you’d be livid that the school allowed it to happen.
It’s one thing to give a single kid a lift home.
It’s quite another to bundle three kids into a car and take off on a school trip.
The fact is though that accidents can and sadly do happen. When I was at school one of the full size coaches that did the rounds picking kids up was hit square up the back by a dump-truck hard enough to wipe out the back row of seats and seriously injure the driver of the lorry.(I know that's a horrible thing to suggest about your kid, and it’s not a nice thing for you to consider.)
But would it not be tragic if your kid was badly injured in a car crash because of a lack of proper seating in a car crash that was caused by a near blind 55 year old teacher going the wrong way up a sliproad in their badly maintained car.
Imagine a situation where if you met the driver or saw the car you would not let your kid into it. But the school decided it was safe.
I would imagine you’d be livid that the school allowed it to happen.
It’s one thing to give a single kid a lift home.
It’s quite another to bundle three kids into a car and take off on a school trip.
Thankfully there was no-one in that back row of seats, but if there had been would it have been any comfort that they were travelling in a 100% legal and routine manner?
Yes the teacher should have had a booster seat at the very least, but in reality the chances are that they'd have been no safer in the minibus.
You also have to have some sense of proportionality of the safety in general of the roads and the real difference to safety that the booster seat represents. The chances are nothing bad would happen anyway, and you trust these teachers with your children when they cross the road, are in the playground and playing sport (arguably more dangerous) so is it worth getting that worked up about?
Edited by The Wookie on Wednesday 23 May 09:30
Snowboy said:
Which is as absurd as saying that only those that don’t drive should be allowed to decide on the laws of the road.
I understand you are in charge of a load of kids and have their wellbeing as your responsibility.
Assuming that 3 kids around the age of 5 needed to be transported from one place to another would you let one of your staff drive them in their own car without booster seats.
Do you have any staff who you wouldn’t let drive them because you couldn’t vouch for their driving skills?
That observation was more aimed towards the "fking apoplectic with rage" type comments.I understand you are in charge of a load of kids and have their wellbeing as your responsibility.
Assuming that 3 kids around the age of 5 needed to be transported from one place to another would you let one of your staff drive them in their own car without booster seats.
Do you have any staff who you wouldn’t let drive them because you couldn’t vouch for their driving skills?
My original view on this topic was that it is a sad sign of the state of the country - other people then started arguing with me saying how could I dare to contribute to a topic involving children and telling me to f
k off! You are totally correct that we are not allowed to transport children in our own car, infact due to it being a residential centre we are not even allowed to be in the same room as a child alone. In my opinion this is crazy, I am trusted to fit a harness that will keep them alive whilst climbing, to take them out into the sea in kayaks and to teach them how to shoot a rifle, but not allowed to go and check they are okay when in there dorms? I have to log every single incident that could possibly be considered innapropriate - A girl adds me on facebook after a holiday, I have to provide a 4 page document including screenshots proving I declined it. I think this is h&s gone mad!
Jamie VTS said:
You are totally correct that we are not allowed to transport children in our own car, infact due to it being a residential centre we are not even allowed to be in the same room as a child alone. In my opinion this is crazy, I am trusted to fit a harness that will keep them alive whilst climbing, to take them out into the sea in kayaks and to teach them how to shoot a rifle, but not allowed to go and check they are okay when in there dorms? I have to log every single incident that could possibly be considered innapropriate - A girl adds me on facebook after a holiday, I have to provide a 4 page document including screenshots proving I declined it. I think this is h&s gone mad!
A lot of that is for your protection though.All it would take is for one child to accuse you of inappropriate touching and you are suspended until an investigation is complete.
It’s just your word against theirs.
Apoplectic with rage might be considered over the top to some people.
But, from you last post I do I assume that you agree that the school should not have done what it did.
Snowboy said:
A lot of that is for your protection though.
All it would take is for one child to accuse you of inappropriate touching and you are suspended until an investigation is complete.
It’s just your word against theirs.
Apoplectic with rage might be considered over the top to some people.
But, from you last post I do I assume that you agree that the school should not have done what it did.
Of course its for my protection and also of course the kiddies too!! It doesnt stop it being riddiculous in some cases. All it would take is for one child to accuse you of inappropriate touching and you are suspended until an investigation is complete.
It’s just your word against theirs.
Apoplectic with rage might be considered over the top to some people.
But, from you last post I do I assume that you agree that the school should not have done what it did.
It is a little different, your childs teacher driving them and I said the ideal situation would have been for the school to ensure that they booked the correct transport in the first place (this probably wasnt the teachers fault)I viewed it as the teacher using a little bit of common sense and bending the rules slightly to make sure all the children got to enjoy the school trip! but maybe as people have said when I have children I may see the situation in a completely differnt light!
Edited by Jamie VTS on Wednesday 23 May 09:58
10 Pence Short said:
Would people let someone they've barely met, who they've never seen drive, who they don't even know holds a licence, let alone what convictions are on it, with no proof of insurance, drive their car unsupervised?
It is your childs teacher, someone who is responsible for your childs safety, you probably would have met them on several occasions.Jamie VTS said:
10 Pence Short said:
Would people let someone they've barely met, who they've never seen drive, who they don't even know holds a licence, let alone what convictions are on it, with no proof of insurance, drive their car unsupervised?
It is your childs teacher, someone who is responsible for your childs safety, you probably would have met them on several occasions.As a primary school kids it’s likely the parents will have only met the form teacher on an open day.
Even if they had met the teacher, a 10 minute chat about the school offers no indication of their driving ability.
Anyhow.
It’s easy enough to adjust the specifics of Mr 10p’s question and give an answer.
Snowboy said:
It wasn’t the child teacher (was it?) I thought it was just a teacher from the school.
As a primary school kids it’s likely the parents will have only met the form teacher on an open day.
Even if they had met the teacher, a 10 minute chat about the school offers no indication of their driving ability.
Anyhow.
It’s easy enough to adjust the specifics of Mr 10p’s question and give an answer.
Im just trying to rationalise the situation As a primary school kids it’s likely the parents will have only met the form teacher on an open day.
Even if they had met the teacher, a 10 minute chat about the school offers no indication of their driving ability.
Anyhow.
It’s easy enough to adjust the specifics of Mr 10p’s question and give an answer.
Snowboy said:
Even if they had met the teacher, a 10 minute chat about the school offers no indication of their driving ability.
FFS they held a driving license! Is every parent now to question and test driving abilities of a hired minibus driver? Does being a parent make you more competent in judging other people's driving ability than a DSA examiner? 10 Pence Short said:
Would people let someone they've barely met, who they've never seen drive, who they don't even know holds a licence, let alone what convictions are on it, with no proof of insurance, drive their car unsupervised?
Nobody went fking apoplectic with rage when that car was a bus.10 Pence Short said:
Would people let someone they've barely met, who they've never seen drive, who they don't even know holds a licence, let alone what convictions are on it, with no proof of insurance, drive their car unsupervised?
Have you ever asked a bus driver to show you all of those before you got on it?rottie102 said:
FFS they held a driving license! Is every parent now to question and test driving abilities of a hired minibus driver? Does being a parent make you more competent in judging other people's driving ability than a DSA examiner?
I have a driving licence, can I borrow your Corvette?rottie102 said:
10 Pence Short said:
Would people let someone they've barely met, who they've never seen drive, who they don't even know holds a licence, let alone what convictions are on it, with no proof of insurance, drive their car unsupervised?
Have you ever asked a bus driver to show you all of those before you got on it?Someone driving a bus for school children will be subject to specific checks on their licence, specific licence entitlements depending on the number of seats and training from their employer, not to mention being covered by appropriate insurance. The bus itself will be suitable for the job in hand and equipped to satisfy regulatory requirements.
Their are no such safeguards guaranteed if a school teacher uses their own vehicle to drive a school children outside of a formal arrangement.
Snowboy said:
mattnunn said:
I have a 5 year old, i couldn't give a fk if the school bungied her to the back of the bus, as long as she came to no harm.
And what if she did come to harm?k if the school bungied her to the back of the bus, as long as she came to no harm.(I know that's a horrible thing to suggest about your kid, and it’s not a nice thing for you to consider.)
But would it not be tragic if your kid was badly injured in a car crash because of a lack of proper seating in a car crash that was caused by a near blind 55 year old teacher going the wrong way up a sliproad in their badly maintained car.
Imagine a situation where if you met the driver or saw the car you would not let your kid into it. But the school decided it was safe.
I would imagine you’d be livid that the school allowed it to happen.
It’s one thing to give a single kid a lift home.
It’s quite another to bundle three kids into a car and take off on a school trip.
10 Pence Short said:
Do you believe a school teacher using their own car (who is not formally required in their employment to transport children or drive on business) and the car itself would be subject to the same regulatory and employment scrutiny as the bus and its driver?
Someone driving a bus for school children will be subject to specific checks on their licence, specific licence entitlements depending on the number of seats and training from their employer, not to mention being covered by appropriate insurance. The bus itself will be suitable for the job in hand and equipped to satisfy regulatory requirements.
Their are no such safeguards guaranteed if a school teacher uses their own vehicle to drive a school children outside of a formal arrangement.
Take it you never got the bus to school.Someone driving a bus for school children will be subject to specific checks on their licence, specific licence entitlements depending on the number of seats and training from their employer, not to mention being covered by appropriate insurance. The bus itself will be suitable for the job in hand and equipped to satisfy regulatory requirements.
Their are no such safeguards guaranteed if a school teacher uses their own vehicle to drive a school children outside of a formal arrangement.
School buses are:
Always the oldest in a coaches fleet - due to the way they get treated by the kids.
School bus drivers get no extra training
School buses still don't even require seatbelts (unless this has recently changed)
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