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hotmelt
847 posts
42 months
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crocodile tears said: hotmelt said: fozzymandeus said: The Clio is NA, so you'll have more fun wringing the neck of it than you do the BMW.
My experience of a Clio 197 after several BMWs was pretty positive, but the low rent interior and the poor fuel consumption for what is, after all, a small hatchback did it for me in the end.
I suspect that if I was the type to make more use of the track day then I'd have kept the 197 longer.
Odd, this, but my experience of going from a Clio 197 to a big floaty Mercedes was initially that the Merc wasn't as much fun to drive, but these days I find that it's as much fun pressing on in the Merc as it ever was in the Clio, it's just that the corner velocities I'm making aren't as high. No big deal.
As a result, you'll be impressed with the car's ability to corner for a few weeks, then you'll tire of the noisy, poorly made cabin and the melty steering wheel and you'll wish you had your BMW again.
I'm not knocking the Clio, I love 'em, but they aren't very sophisticated. First of all Clio 200 is big improvement on 197(5 star vs 4 star car), ESPECIALLY IN CHASSIS DEPARTMENT(just check Ecoty 2009 in Evo vs Ecoty 2006 where 197 was) . I would advise to buy Clio 200 instead of Bmw, since it is much better drive, while quality is still good. Naturally aspirated engine(advantage) is very durable too. Plus great Recaro seats can be ordered. errrrmmm The 197 I drove had the 'new chassis' r27. Next time inform yourself better, r27 is old cup chassis, also 4 stars, beaten by cooper S in comparative tests than. Try new 200 cup it is much, much better drivers car.
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hotmelt
847 posts
42 months
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fozzymandeus said: hotmelt said: First of all Clio 200 is big improvement on 197(5 star vs 4 star car), ESPECIALLY IN CHASSIS DEPARTMENT(just check Ecoty 2009 in Evo vs Ecoty 2006 where 197 was) . I would advise to buy Clio 200 instead of Bmw, since it is much better drive, while quality is still good. Naturally aspirated engine(advantage) is very durable too. Plus great Recaro seats can be ordered. 5 star? Does this mean it has a TV in every room? None of this matters - the Clio has more fun handling than the 135i anyway. Still doesn't make it a better all round car. And, quality isn't good, it's just about average. You're reading a bit like a Renault salesman, or at least like salesy editorial. And your evidence seems to stem entirely from EVO magazine whereas I'm talking about the cars I've driven and/or owned. You have owned(driven) old Clio 197 cup, you are on wrong thread, this is about newer 200. And I have driven it(albeit shortly), while other magazines hail it too(Top gear for example etc.)
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deadmau5
2,087 posts
49 months
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hotmelt said: crocodile tears said: hotmelt said: fozzymandeus said: The Clio is NA, so you'll have more fun wringing the neck of it than you do the BMW.
My experience of a Clio 197 after several BMWs was pretty positive, but the low rent interior and the poor fuel consumption for what is, after all, a small hatchback did it for me in the end.
I suspect that if I was the type to make more use of the track day then I'd have kept the 197 longer.
Odd, this, but my experience of going from a Clio 197 to a big floaty Mercedes was initially that the Merc wasn't as much fun to drive, but these days I find that it's as much fun pressing on in the Merc as it ever was in the Clio, it's just that the corner velocities I'm making aren't as high. No big deal.
As a result, you'll be impressed with the car's ability to corner for a few weeks, then you'll tire of the noisy, poorly made cabin and the melty steering wheel and you'll wish you had your BMW again.
I'm not knocking the Clio, I love 'em, but they aren't very sophisticated. First of all Clio 200 is big improvement on 197(5 star vs 4 star car), ESPECIALLY IN CHASSIS DEPARTMENT(just check Ecoty 2009 in Evo vs Ecoty 2006 where 197 was) . I would advise to buy Clio 200 instead of Bmw, since it is much better drive, while quality is still good. Naturally aspirated engine(advantage) is very durable too. Plus great Recaro seats can be ordered. errrrmmm The 197 I drove had the 'new chassis' r27. Next time inform yourself better, r27 is old cup chassis, also 4 stars, beaten by cooper S in comparative tests than. Try new 200 cup it is much, much better drivers car. It was the Cooper S JCW that just beat the R27, not the standard S. There are 4 different chassis in the 197/200 range. The original 197 chassis, then the cup chassis which the R27 had. The original 200 chassis, which was softer than the original 197. Then the 200 cup which was stiffer than the 197/R27 cup chassis. You can just put a set of KW Clubsports on any variant and it will handle better than any factory spec 197/200 though.
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fozzymandeus
679 posts
15 months
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deadmau5 said: It was the Cooper S JCW that just beat the R27, not the standard S.
There are 4 different chassis in the 197/200 range.
The original 197 chassis, then the cup chassis which the R27 had.
The original 200 chassis, which was softer than the original 197. Then the 200 cup which was stiffer than the 197/R27 cup chassis. You can just put a set of KW Clubsports on any variant and it will handle better than any factory spec 197/200 though. Don't worry, hotmelt is being vexatious IMO. The 200 is better than the 197 but really, not a lot.
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jogon
643 posts
27 months
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Why not a jcw? Much nicer interior, more grunt as a remap takes them up to 280ish and the handling is not far off the Clio.
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sturobturbo
1,841 posts
15 months
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jogon said: Why not a jcw? Much nicer interior, more grunt as a remap takes them up to 280ish and the handling is not far off the Clio. Not to do a dis-service to the JCW, but it regularly came no better than third in any kind of group test. If performance on some welsh mountains doesn't appeal to you (sincerely, rather than sarcastically!) but a nice interior does, then a JCW would be nice, I'm sure.
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hotmelt
847 posts
42 months
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fozzymandeus said: Don't worry, hotmelt is being vexatious IMO. The 200 is better than the 197 but really, not a lot. Really not a lot? Troll somewhere else please.
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crocodile tears
755 posts
15 months
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hotmelt said: Next time inform yourself better, r27 is old cup chassis, also 4 stars, beaten by cooper S in comparative tests than. Try new 200 cup it is much, much better drivers car. doesnt look like I'm the only one who needs informing  the r27 is stiffer than the standard 200.. whut?
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deadmau5
2,087 posts
49 months
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The 200 FF with cup chassis is a better car than the R27 no doubt, but 'much, much better' it is not. Essentially it has marginally more mid-range torque, marginally different gear ratios (some R27 have the 200 box), a marginally quicker steering rack and slightly stiffer suspension.
200s also don't come with Recaros unless you pay an extra £1200(?) for them. 200s don't have xenon lights either. Whilst not important in a 'driver's car', the cup models are low on extras. Hard plastic dash, no keyless entry/go, no auto wipers/lights, no cruise control, only two speakers, no aircon.
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LuS1fer
28,521 posts
114 months
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No auto lights and wipers. How awful. Fit for scrap then really.
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LordHaveMurci
3,121 posts
38 months
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J4CKO said: No, you are mental, it will feel cheap, slow, noisy, hard and flimsy after the BMW. I drove the 182 after a Saab and it felt flat, the driving position was crap and I didnt see what the fuss is about, these are cars that are for the way up the ladder. Ok they get consistent handling accolades and they are brisk, I am guessing the owner of a 300 plus bhp straight six twin turbo wont find it that brisk and it wont handle much better than the BMW, it is still a FWD shopping hatch dspite punching above its weight.
I reckon you would go through the sale, get excited and initially enjoy and then start mssing the BMW and wonder what you have done. I have a 172 Cup & a 911, the Clio nevers disappoints on driving thrills or performance.
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s m
8,109 posts
72 months
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deadmau5 said: 200s also don't come with Recaros unless you pay an extra £1200(?) for them. 200s don't have xenon lights either. Whilst not important in a 'driver's car', the cup models are low on extras. Hard plastic dash, no keyless entry/go, no auto wipers/lights, no cruise control, only two speakers, no aircon.  - as above but got the luxury of FOUR speakers.......WINNING!
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Fittster
14,933 posts
82 months
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What's the OP's budget?
My call would be a Boxster
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deadmau5
2,087 posts
49 months
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s m said: deadmau5 said: 200s also don't come with Recaros unless you pay an extra £1200(?) for them. 200s don't have xenon lights either. Whilst not important in a 'driver's car', the cup models are low on extras. Hard plastic dash, no keyless entry/go, no auto wipers/lights, no cruise control, only two speakers, no aircon. - as above but got the luxury of FOUR speakers.......WINNING! The cup has 4 speakers? I know it doesn't have rears but I thought it didn't have tweeters either, but I may well be wrong.
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WorAl
10,877 posts
57 months
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OP I've not driven the BMW but I love powerful RWD cars that can handle.
I have however had a (short) blast out in a Clio 200 cup, yesterday in fact and I got out feeling (sorry for the lack of adjectives) a bit, meh. It was like the Civic Type R I had a while back, I got rid after 5 months, you have to ring its neck and you don't get a lot out of it TBH. The car isn't particularly bad, it's just not all that fun, like the Civic. I'd never buy one in a million years.
One thing that really disappointed was the pedals were too far apart to blip the throttle properly when changing down and braking, and that was with my "fatter" shoes on and the engine didn't seem to rev all that quickly, I seemed to have to give the throttle a really heavy prod to get the engine to rev.
Personally, I think what you're looking for is an M3.
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s m
8,109 posts
72 months
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deadmau5 said: s m said: deadmau5 said: 200s also don't come with Recaros unless you pay an extra £1200(?) for them. 200s don't have xenon lights either. Whilst not important in a 'driver's car', the cup models are low on extras. Hard plastic dash, no keyless entry/go, no auto wipers/lights, no cruise control, only two speakers, no aircon. - as above but got the luxury of FOUR speakers.......WINNING! The cup has 4 speakers? I know it doesn't have rears but I thought it didn't have tweeters either, but I may well be wrong. - No I meant I have all the hard plastic dash, no keyless etc etc ....but the sheer decadence of 4 speakers - ( it isn't a Clio though )
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deadmau5
2,087 posts
49 months
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s m said: deadmau5 said: s m said: deadmau5 said: 200s also don't come with Recaros unless you pay an extra £1200(?) for them. 200s don't have xenon lights either. Whilst not important in a 'driver's car', the cup models are low on extras. Hard plastic dash, no keyless entry/go, no auto wipers/lights, no cruise control, only two speakers, no aircon. - as above but got the luxury of FOUR speakers.......WINNING! The cup has 4 speakers? I know it doesn't have rears but I thought it didn't have tweeters either, but I may well be wrong. - No I meant I have all the hard plastic dash, no keyless etc etc ....but the sheer decadence of 4 speakers - ( it isn't a Clio though ) Ahh I see. I can't see any speakers on your Pirate Professional though :s
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s m
8,109 posts
72 months
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deadmau5 said: Ahh I see. I can't see any speakers on your Pirate Professional though :s Type AAARRRRRRRRRRR.....
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fozzymandeus
679 posts
15 months
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hotmelt said: fozzymandeus said: Don't worry, hotmelt is being vexatious IMO. The 200 is better than the 197 but really, not a lot. Really not a lot? Troll somewhere else please. QED. Calling me a troll is an admission of guilt. You're commenting from a position of complete ignorance, I'm only commenting from a position of partial ignorance, which makes me in a more relevant place than you. Don't be rude. I stand by my advice.
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jonm01
217 posts
106 months
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Get an RS250. Sport if you still want some comfort or CUP if you don't mind the firmer ride.
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