RE: Unofficial Defender concept keeps it simple
Discussion
Lee540 said:
If it aint broken then don't fix it! 
Keep the Landrover as it is I say!
I completely agree.Keep the Landrover as it is I say!
Please , Land Rover, do not tart up an icon with bling.
I live near one of the largest livestock markets in the country where 15 or so years ago all the vehicles towing Ifor Williams trailers would have been Defenders. Now they account for less than 50%, the rest being Japanese pick-ups etc.
If LR bling up a Defender they will lose the agricultural market completely.
A Defender is a workhorse, not a North Cheshire tarts boudoir.
uncle tez said:
I don't really see why they need to make a new one. Keep the original styling but just update the interior and anything that doesn't work properly. In my experience most of the people who own defenders are the type of people who don't really like change anyway.
Simple really, it was born in the days before safety was a concern and other than a few face lifts over the years is unchanged. The key problem with the trusty 'fender is how prone they are to roll over and how easily the roof caves in. In America LRA tried to solve the safety issue by fitting an exoskeleton to the US 'fenders, but it only worked for about a year until the 'fender had to stop being sold in the US. Many other countries followed suit.Edited by uncle tez on Tuesday 22 May 14:01
The kind of inherent flaw the 'fender's roof has cannot be fixed by a facelift, it needs massive reworking. The real nail in the coffin was the MoD switching from Landies for light vehicles to FIAT, this has cost Landy in a massive way (as well as the British company that used to convert the Landies to military standards). They need to fill the gap and as they aren't likely to win a mil contract with the new 'fender, they are aiming for the Yank/Chinese markets and currently those markets want the vehicles like the DC100.
It will be a problem for farmers and Mountain Rescue Teams as they'll need to find a new utilitarian vehicle to fill the gap and unfortunately for JLR, it is looking like it'll be the Jap's who fill that gap.
filski666 said:
What b
ks, so a bloke has drawn a picture of a Defender...bit different to actually designing a car with all the feasibilty work that goes into it in order to make it actually possible to engineer and pass all the regulations for safety and occupant package etc.
yes. Happens all the time. Geek draws a picture when bored - people treat it like it's a real car announcementks, so a bloke has drawn a picture of a Defender...bit different to actually designing a car with all the feasibilty work that goes into it in order to make it actually possible to engineer and pass all the regulations for safety and occupant package etc.tiskev said:
I do not really see the problem .
If Mercedes can revamp the G waggon which arguably was a landy copy anyway
in appearance why can LR not update it with modern comfort and most of
all an auto gearbox of which has kept their sales of present vehicle low .
I was told some years ago that it was only the purists at LR that was stopping
a Defender with auto box being produced
It is quite possible to produce a TDV6/V8 Defender auto, and there are commercially available kits for owners to do a home swap. I suspect that LR dont want to do it for the same reason that Porsche restricts the cayman - to prevent it competing with the more upmarket and profitable models. If Mercedes can revamp the G waggon which arguably was a landy copy anyway
in appearance why can LR not update it with modern comfort and most of
all an auto gearbox of which has kept their sales of present vehicle low .
I was told some years ago that it was only the purists at LR that was stopping
a Defender with auto box being produced
Edited by mat777 on Tuesday 22 May 16:02
Blown2CV said:
filski666 said:
What bks, so a bloke has drawn a picture of a Defender...bit different to actually designing a car with all the feasibilty work that goes into it in order to make it actually possible to engineer and pass all the regulations for safety and occupant package etc.
yes. Happens all the time. Geek draws a picture when bored - people treat it like it's a real car announcementks, so a bloke has drawn a picture of a Defender...bit different to actually designing a car with all the feasibilty work that goes into it in order to make it actually possible to engineer and pass all the regulations for safety and occupant package etc.I know that new motoring stories aren't available every day, but no need to fill the front page with this stuff.
If PH are going to continue doing this, then I'm going to go and find some of my old "designs" and send them in. They might only be in biro on paper, but they surely have as much validity as this stuff...
needham said:
Lee540 said:
If it aint broken then don't fix it!
Keep the Landrover as it is I say!
I completely agree.Keep the Landrover as it is I say!
Please , Land Rover, do not tart up an icon with bling.
I live near one of the largest livestock markets in the country where 15 or so years ago all the vehicles towing Ifor Williams trailers would have been Defenders. Now they account for less than 50%, the rest being Japanese pick-ups etc.
If LR bling up a Defender they will lose the agricultural market completely.
A Defender is a workhorse, not a North Cheshire tarts boudoir.
I've driven defenders in Costa Rica a natural habitat as the roads are ROUGH and they are good workhorses, but in recent years the 4x4 market is now dominated by 4x4 pickups from either Asia or America, because they offer some level of comfort over the rough roads, the Defender as most will admit offers little comfort.
Central and South America should be Defender country but it's fallen behind the competition
Keep the basic concept of a strong offroad easy to repair vehicle but update the style, the defender's brick dynamics does nothing for mpg and that's another problem in that the competition are more economical to run.
Improve the interior ergonomics and soundproofing (that won't be hard), it doesn't have to have wood and leather, it's not a Vogue, but it doesn't have to be austere unlike the time it was developed in mid 1940's.
Article quote - 'Crucial to the Dezyn Smith's proposal is rugged mechanical simplicity. His car would have a ladder-frame chassis, a choice of engines and body styles, entirely washable interiors, removable and interchangeable panels (you could take the Jerry can panel off and put a panel with window in, or have a roof with solar cells swapped for a canvas roof).'
I’d really like to see more detail of what he’s mentioned above before rating it as a great concept, particularly details of engines and the chassis. Other important stuff too – like what type of suspension, towing capacity, beam axles or IFS, materials used, gearbox and gearing options, etc. You know.. the kind of stuff that’s important to people who use a Defender as a working vehicle.
I’d really like to see more detail of what he’s mentioned above before rating it as a great concept, particularly details of engines and the chassis. Other important stuff too – like what type of suspension, towing capacity, beam axles or IFS, materials used, gearbox and gearing options, etc. You know.. the kind of stuff that’s important to people who use a Defender as a working vehicle.
This is a hummer that has been styled to sort of look like a land rover - design classic it is not, so no thanks! If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Come on JLR lets have a modest design review of the current model, drop the lethargic 2.4 diesel and put the TDV6 in from the disco (possibly with an auto box option?) - oh yes fit a normal sized steering wheel that stops you banging your elbow on the door and also do a ridiculous G63-beating top of the range one based on the classic design with a tweaked supercharged engine from the big rangie....
just a thought.
just a thought.
This is another modern vehicle that is designed to resemble an old icon, this is no longer that icon.
For me?
I want a brand new one of the old machines despite their limitations - but legislation in Canada won't allow it. This could be true for many people in many markets. By 'the old machine' I don't mean a series Land Rover, I mean the most recent of what *I* consider to be the true descendants, but for people of similar mind you need to draw your production date line in the sand past, present or future.
Reality, I suspect more people want a much more modern and technologically up to date vehicle that resembles the old icon, and since it is kind of important that you can sell it in the markets where they want it, that is the type of design that would likely win.
Overall, it is a little FJ Cruiser for me, a nice vehicle, another retro interpretation for certain, and as I first started driving in a 1964 Land Rover back when I was 12 years old, I do lean towards it over the competition if I were to buy a new style “SUV”, as it does have some Land Rover dna (lower case).
I certainly prefer it over the Evoque.
Perhaps that is why it doesn’t sit well with me, perhaps it should replace the Evoque; perhaps nothing should replace the Defender, perhaps the Defender should cease production and be remembered as it was - and live on in deserts and jungles, and the garages and fields of those who admire the classics.
For me?
I want a brand new one of the old machines despite their limitations - but legislation in Canada won't allow it. This could be true for many people in many markets. By 'the old machine' I don't mean a series Land Rover, I mean the most recent of what *I* consider to be the true descendants, but for people of similar mind you need to draw your production date line in the sand past, present or future.
Reality, I suspect more people want a much more modern and technologically up to date vehicle that resembles the old icon, and since it is kind of important that you can sell it in the markets where they want it, that is the type of design that would likely win.
Overall, it is a little FJ Cruiser for me, a nice vehicle, another retro interpretation for certain, and as I first started driving in a 1964 Land Rover back when I was 12 years old, I do lean towards it over the competition if I were to buy a new style “SUV”, as it does have some Land Rover dna (lower case).
I certainly prefer it over the Evoque.
Perhaps that is why it doesn’t sit well with me, perhaps it should replace the Evoque; perhaps nothing should replace the Defender, perhaps the Defender should cease production and be remembered as it was - and live on in deserts and jungles, and the garages and fields of those who admire the classics.
Edited by UKAuto on Tuesday 22 May 19:08
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