RE: The £17K Ferrari? I bought it...
Discussion
Unless I'm very much mistaken I didn't actually say that?
Catpuddle said:
My 993 had a few £5k services in it's day, and that's nowhere near V12 Ferrari league.
The way it works is as follows.
Basic cost of service say £500. Then anything else that wants doing slap an enormous premium on. So, the pads, discs, you mention plus tyres could easily cost £3 grand, plus a little bit of aircon fettling, a radiator or two and a clutch and suddenly your looking north of £10k. Sorry, to run these cars properly are ridiculously expensive. If you just want to put it in the garage and look at it, that's fine. But drive it anywhere and you'll need shares in a bank. Brakes are not like a focus, or an old landrover, DIY for a few hundred. No. Sorry.
The way it works is as follows.
Basic cost of service say £500. Then anything else that wants doing slap an enormous premium on. So, the pads, discs, you mention plus tyres could easily cost £3 grand, plus a little bit of aircon fettling, a radiator or two and a clutch and suddenly your looking north of £10k. Sorry, to run these cars properly are ridiculously expensive. If you just want to put it in the garage and look at it, that's fine. But drive it anywhere and you'll need shares in a bank. Brakes are not like a focus, or an old landrover, DIY for a few hundred. No. Sorry.
Catpuddle said:
Brakes are not like a focus, or an old landrover, DIY for a few hundred. No. Sorry.
BS. they are ventilated cast iron with an MTE ABS system and alloy calipers, I.e. four billets of metal. Betting they are common across several cars. If not you could have a batch made and share them on the owners forum. Do you think that Ferrari manufacture these things lol.Catpuddle said:
My 993 had a few £5k services in it's day, and that's nowhere near V12 Ferrari league.
If you're stupid enough to use a main dealer/top-end specialist for a car like this...Massive bills like that are down to the ridiculous labour charges, excessive fixed-rate job-lengths and scandalous parts markup which official dealers (and many of the better specialists) operate (applies to all official dealers but the more expensive the car, the worse it gets). All that tinted glass in premium locations with hordes of sycophants in branded polo shirts have to be paid for somehow
The same services done by a specialist in overalls working out of a lockup would be a FRACTION of the cost - still expensive by DIY banger-maintenance standards but you can easily get on-top of the stupid prices once you stop using the dealer network (which you only did to keep the history/value of your car up in it's earlier years - no need once a car passes a certain age/mileage/condition).
Obviously something like an engine or gearbox going bang is bad news - but on a car like this you'd simply seek a used replacement (and there are plenty of people who deal in them) - you're not going to pay for a complete rebuild or a new engine (unless you're insane)!?
This car is old enough not to have a load of obscure 'dealer software/kit required' electronics and I'd imagine most of the routine parts are off-the-shelf third-party items with 'Ferrari' stickers on them (and available without those stickers if you know who to talk to).
Summary: there's one born every minute - and most of them use the Dealer Network
I agree with the above. Some people don't have confidence in a car unless they've been bent over for dealer servicing, each to their own I guess, whatever makes you happy.
If you change the fluids regularly then you'd think the internals, mainly engine and gearbox should stay tight, unless they really are that flakey and can only do a given mileage or take so much spirited driving before letting go.
If you change the fluids regularly then you'd think the internals, mainly engine and gearbox should stay tight, unless they really are that flakey and can only do a given mileage or take so much spirited driving before letting go.
Brilliant car; brilliant project. What I find compelling in these situations is managing the hope of owning and running something you never thought you would possibly afford with the reality or costs.
It can be done, lots of people manage it. The outcome isn't always good - but that is often all the incentive people need to forge ahead regardless.
Without that mentality, we'd all just be driving used BMW 330is - which would be most dull.
Remember: every car has its horror stories.
It can be done, lots of people manage it. The outcome isn't always good - but that is often all the incentive people need to forge ahead regardless.
Without that mentality, we'd all just be driving used BMW 330is - which would be most dull.
Remember: every car has its horror stories.
Catpuddle said:
Brakes are not like a focus, or an old landrover, DIY for a few hundred. No. Sorry.
Are they not? Why? http://www.porscheshop.co.uk/acatalog/porsche_993_...
http://www.superformance.co.uk/a-v12m/brakes.htm
Edited by hairykrishna on Wednesday 30th May 17:12
There are two factors which prohibit the average smith from buying a ferrari.
- Purchase price
- Upkeep costs
In many way the purchase price is the most difficult hurdle to overcome, as few have the means to cough up the equivalent of a small house in order to own one. Keeping it running is far easier, albeit a bit more erratic in terms of what to expect.
A bad year can run you 8-10 grand in upkeep costs, while other years you get away with perhaps 2000. On average though, there will probably be 4-5 grand a year to keep things proper. But is that really so horrific compared to what people spend at the gym, on sports goods, hobbies etc.
You can drive around in a Ferrari for petes sake, I doubt you will be lying on your deathbed "I really regret buying that 12 cylinder Ferrari" as someone else here said. Its not your only car so if something breaks, ask around - browse the web - Use a good independent. With a bit of wit you can probably get away with not alot more than what many 5 year old merc owners get scimmed for every year.
For 1/10 the price I can see no downsides. Its bound to be legendary - one way or the other.
- Purchase price
- Upkeep costs
In many way the purchase price is the most difficult hurdle to overcome, as few have the means to cough up the equivalent of a small house in order to own one. Keeping it running is far easier, albeit a bit more erratic in terms of what to expect.
A bad year can run you 8-10 grand in upkeep costs, while other years you get away with perhaps 2000. On average though, there will probably be 4-5 grand a year to keep things proper. But is that really so horrific compared to what people spend at the gym, on sports goods, hobbies etc.
You can drive around in a Ferrari for petes sake, I doubt you will be lying on your deathbed "I really regret buying that 12 cylinder Ferrari" as someone else here said. Its not your only car so if something breaks, ask around - browse the web - Use a good independent. With a bit of wit you can probably get away with not alot more than what many 5 year old merc owners get scimmed for every year.
For 1/10 the price I can see no downsides. Its bound to be legendary - one way or the other.
flatline84 said:
In many way the purchase price is the most difficult hurdle to overcome, as few have the means to cough up the equivalent of a small house in order to own one. Keeping it running is far easier, albeit a bit more erratic in terms of what to expect.
I'd say the exact opposite of this to be honest. With finance being so cheap and freely available, purchasing a car is often the easy part (hence why you see so many new cars knocking about). It's like it's not real money, it's just a figure which electronically get's removed from your bank account every month. It's a fixed amount too so it can be budgeted for, especially with a bit of man maths. The harder pill to swallow is that unexpected five figure repair bill which a lot of people just don't have lying around. This is the real reason I expect why a lot of PH'ers drive around in a newish econobox when they'd rather be driving a classic V12 Ferrari.
Guvernator said:
I'd say the exact opposite of this to be honest. With finance being so cheap and freely available, purchasing a car is often the easy part (hence why you see so many new cars knocking about). It's like it's not real money, it's just a figure which electronically get's removed from your bank account every month. It's a fixed amount too so it can be budgeted for, especially with a bit of man maths.
The harder pill to swallow is that unexpected five figure repair bill which a lot of people just don't have lying around. This is the real reason I expect why a lot of PH'ers drive around in a newish econobox when they'd rather be driving a classic V12 Ferrari.
If you can plan a 170.000 purchase in advance, who says you cant plan for a 4k bill down the road?The harder pill to swallow is that unexpected five figure repair bill which a lot of people just don't have lying around. This is the real reason I expect why a lot of PH'ers drive around in a newish econobox when they'd rather be driving a classic V12 Ferrari.
This is by no means a personal dig at you, but the bolded line of thinking is excactly what has made the world economy go tits up.
I struggle to see the logic in thinking 170.000 grand isnt real money but just a figure on a paper to be paid each month, whereas a few grand is beyond what most have lying around. That number on a paper which isnt real money, can quickly cause you to lose your house...If you set aside a few hundred quid a month thats a couple of grand a year which should be running a ferrari adequately.
I hope you take this post the way it was intended mate.
Edited by flatline84 on Thursday 31st May 11:33
Edited by flatline84 on Thursday 31st May 11:34
flatline84 said:
If you can plan a 170.000 purchase in advance, who says you cant plan for a 4k bill down the road?
This is by no means a personal dig at you, but the bolded line of thinking is excactly what has made the world economy go tits up.
I struggle to see the logic in thinking 170.000 grand isnt real money but just a figure on a paper to be paid each month, whereas a few grand is beyond what most have lying around. That number on a paper which isnt real money, can quickly cause you to lose your house...If you set aside a few hundred quid a month thats a couple of grand a year which should be running a ferrari adequately.
I hope you take this post the way it was intended mate.
No worries, all good discussion. I wasn't actually refering to buying a £170k Ferrari on finance although I their are many people who do this too. I was refering to the fact that people are quite happy to spend £17k on a Fiesta because they know it's only going to cost them £200 a month for the finance but won't spend £17k on a Ferrari due to the fear of being hit with a large repair bill for money they don't have.This is by no means a personal dig at you, but the bolded line of thinking is excactly what has made the world economy go tits up.
I struggle to see the logic in thinking 170.000 grand isnt real money but just a figure on a paper to be paid each month, whereas a few grand is beyond what most have lying around. That number on a paper which isnt real money, can quickly cause you to lose your house...If you set aside a few hundred quid a month thats a couple of grand a year which should be running a ferrari adequately.
I hope you take this post the way it was intended mate.
Edited by flatline84 on Thursday 31st May 11:33
Edited by flatline84 on Thursday 31st May 11:34
I don't subscribe to the finance is evil notion either, finace in itself can be a good thing and is in fact how the world economy revolves. Without it, the world just wouldn't function as we know it today. What is wrong is stupid people lending or borrowing money which they can't afford. This is the reason why the economy is screwed!
Yes, but the fiesta will depreciate with a few grand a year whereas the ferrari will not, although running costs - fuel aside - will be a few grand.
So best case scenario you pay a few grand a more a year in fuel and insurance in order to drive around in a Ferrari and not a Fiesta.
It could still erupt in flaming inferno, but thats life - full of uncertainties
So best case scenario you pay a few grand a more a year in fuel and insurance in order to drive around in a Ferrari and not a Fiesta.
It could still erupt in flaming inferno, but thats life - full of uncertainties
flatline84 said:
Yes, but the fiesta will depreciate with a few grand a year whereas the ferrari will not, although running costs - fuel aside - will be a few grand.
So best case scenario you pay a few grand a more a year in fuel and insurance in order to drive around in a Ferrari and not a Fiesta.
It could still erupt in flaming inferno, but thats life - full of uncertainties
I know a Fiesta will depreciate and cost more in the long run but again depreciation isn't "real money" and it's not tangible. To many people loosing £5k in depreciation isn't the same as taking £5k out of your bank account\credit card to pay for a new clutch, it's a hidden cost that can be very easily ignored. This isn't to say that I am of the same opinion, just giving a viewpoint that I have often heard.So best case scenario you pay a few grand a more a year in fuel and insurance in order to drive around in a Ferrari and not a Fiesta.
It could still erupt in flaming inferno, but thats life - full of uncertainties
Even on PH, a car enthusiasts forum, the number of people who drive a dull econbox as it's financially safer far outweigh those who would risk owning a "cheap" Ferrari, hence all the posts on this thread congratulating this guy for "having the b*lls"
WHAT!!!!!!!!, you're not an accountant are you? So £5K isn't real money then hey? I'll pass you my bank account details and you can transfer £5 grand of your 'unreal' money anytime you're ready fellah!
Whether £5000 dribbles out of your coffers over a year in services, tyres, repairs, or what have you, or, it goes out in one lump to make up what you lost in depreciation when it's time to renew your car at the end of the year it's £5k however you look at it? Anyone for a game of Monopoly?[quote=Guvernator]
To many people loosing £5k in depreciation isn't the same as taking £5k out of your bank account\credit card
Whether £5000 dribbles out of your coffers over a year in services, tyres, repairs, or what have you, or, it goes out in one lump to make up what you lost in depreciation when it's time to renew your car at the end of the year it's £5k however you look at it? Anyone for a game of Monopoly?[quote=Guvernator]
To many people loosing £5k in depreciation isn't the same as taking £5k out of your bank account\credit card
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