RE: PH Carpool: Caterham 21
Discussion
WillBrumBrum said:
Brilliant car. Love the looks, I know there was that thing about the Elise killing all the orders, but it's a shame because I think if Caterham had had a bit more faith in themselves at the time when this came out rather than listening to everyone who said it wasn't as good as an Elise - then it could have continued and sold a few, kind of like the Morgan +4 has done all these years.
Yep, just bad timing. IIRC the entire budget for the car was less than Lotus spent on the doors for the Elise. Did the 21 have a roof?
blitzracing said:
"I'm thinking of a V8-powered car, however I don't know of any which are as small, light and nimble as a 21. Would a V8 fit in, I wonder?!"
Yes its called a Ginetta g33
Fisher Fury's take a Rover V8 too. Yes its called a Ginetta g33
Only issue with V8s in these small cars is the heat given off the exhaust, on my fury the side exit exhaust runs along the passenger side sill, with the manifold just ahead of the passenger footwell, it gets warm!
I would love a Fury type car with an M3 3.2 straight 6, only problem is the exahust would run down the drivers side on a RHD car.
Sorry slightly off subject.........
Frimley111R said:
WillBrumBrum said:
Brilliant car. Love the looks, I know there was that thing about the Elise killing all the orders, but it's a shame because I think if Caterham had had a bit more faith in themselves at the time when this came out rather than listening to everyone who said it wasn't as good as an Elise - then it could have continued and sold a few, kind of like the Morgan +4 has done all these years.
Yep, just bad timing. IIRC the entire budget for the car was less than Lotus spent on the doors for the Elise. Did the 21 have a roof?
St John Smythe said:
Annoyingly there isn't a pic of the rear of the car in the article. What was up with the exhausts?
Nothing serious, but the pipe split just by the rear diff to give twin exit, one either side, just inside the rear difuser styling. The 'long' pipe that went to the nearside had very little exhaust gases running through it, so looked very different to the other side. On an almost perfect design, it just looked odd after a good run. Minor issue though, they do look lovely and I am sure Caterham could relaunch and sell them now.
Also very comfortable on a long journey - engine and road noise aside - lovely, classic reclined driving position, the door's arm-rest and transmission tunnel are at the same height, so elbows are supported perfectly and the wheel and gear stick are also ideally placed, and there's plenty of head- and leg-room.
But... the sill is very high and very wide, so getting in and out with the hood in-place is like limbo-dancing through a letter box. And the fixed windows are a major, major PITA
If Caterham had given the windows and the entry/exit five minutes thought, it might've actually sold a tidy few 21s
But... the sill is very high and very wide, so getting in and out with the hood in-place is like limbo-dancing through a letter box. And the fixed windows are a major, major PITA
If Caterham had given the windows and the entry/exit five minutes thought, it might've actually sold a tidy few 21s
WillBrumBrum said:
Brilliant car. Love the looks, I know there was that thing about the Elise killing all the orders, but it's a shame because I think if Caterham had had a bit more faith in themselves at the time when this came out rather than listening to everyone who said it wasn't as good as an Elise - then it could have continued and sold a few, kind of like the Morgan +4 has done all these years.
I can confirm these are great little cars as a friend has a superb example Really well finished, tight and very lively, in fact much more Lotus than the Elise as its far lighter with a similar power output. Great fun! 
alexpa said:
Frimley111R said:
WillBrumBrum said:
Brilliant car. Love the looks, I know there was that thing about the Elise killing all the orders, but it's a shame because I think if Caterham had had a bit more faith in themselves at the time when this came out rather than listening to everyone who said it wasn't as good as an Elise - then it could have continued and sold a few, kind of like the Morgan +4 has done all these years.
Yep, just bad timing. IIRC the entire budget for the car was less than Lotus spent on the doors for the Elise. Did the 21 have a roof?
300bhp/ton said:
Watchman said:
There are V8s and there are V8s... A Rover V8 would be terrible for this but a bike-engine-derived V8 could be fun.
Yep a V8 never did anything any good for TVR either 
The Westfield V8 was quite fun as an inbetweener design though but I still think the RV8 suits a heavier type of car.
I always wondered whether the AJP8 would have been fun in a lighter car. It's quite small.
I remember rushing to the Caterham stand at the British Motor Show in the mid nineties when they released the 21.
Eager to sample this beauty first hand I managed to blag myself a sit in the car.
Oh dear
As soon as I slid in I knew it wasn't for me, at over 6ft & 13.5 stone it was ridiculously cramped.
My dreams dashed I made my way over to the TVR stand and the rest is history.
The Chimaera gave me old school Cobra thrills with modern comforts sufficient to gallop across Europe in 500 mile chunks.
Don't dismiss that old Rover V8 until you've tried a well fettled TVR one.
At 1060kgs it's not exactly a heavy car and with it's Tuscan Challenge derived chassis with the addition of some decent dampers and a few other subtle mods they can handle much better that their reputation suggests.
Shame really, I loved that Caterham 21, right up to the point I sat in one
Eager to sample this beauty first hand I managed to blag myself a sit in the car.
Oh dear
As soon as I slid in I knew it wasn't for me, at over 6ft & 13.5 stone it was ridiculously cramped.
My dreams dashed I made my way over to the TVR stand and the rest is history.
The Chimaera gave me old school Cobra thrills with modern comforts sufficient to gallop across Europe in 500 mile chunks.
Don't dismiss that old Rover V8 until you've tried a well fettled TVR one.
At 1060kgs it's not exactly a heavy car and with it's Tuscan Challenge derived chassis with the addition of some decent dampers and a few other subtle mods they can handle much better that their reputation suggests.
Shame really, I loved that Caterham 21, right up to the point I sat in one
Watchman said:
TVRs and Caterhams have different design requirements though. Caterhams are all about light-weight. As such the Rover V8 is a terrible idea.
The Westfield V8 was quite fun as an inbetweener design though but I still think the RV8 suits a heavier type of car.
I always wondered whether the AJP8 would have been fun in a lighter car. It's quite small.
I was only jesting really... although many a lightweight car has done rather well from fitting a V8 engine. How light is the 21? I know a V8 will make it nose heavier, but I suspect such a setup would make for a very different kind of car rather than just better or worse.The Westfield V8 was quite fun as an inbetweener design though but I still think the RV8 suits a heavier type of car.
I always wondered whether the AJP8 would have been fun in a lighter car. It's quite small.
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