RE: PH Carpool: Caterham 21
Discussion
In response to the question about the front side/indicator lights, these were from the Suzuki Cappuccino.
Having had both a Seven and (this) 21 - I have to plead guilty to the Emily moniker - I can say they are very different cars and Caterham really didn't understand what to do with the 21. It cost them more to make and they were better off selling Sevens (which are a much purer drivers car). At the time I bought and specified Emily I wanted a Caterham I could drive to Scotland and back from Berkshire (would not have considered doing that in a Seven) so the 21 fitted my needs - but once I had a family the two-seat nature was reason enough for me to find her a more deserving home.
In short, existing Caterham owners found the 21 too unlike a Seven, other potential owners didn't see the point in the hardships (e.g. wearing earplugs when driving with the roof up any distance) when an MX-5 was easier.
Of course, the British motoring press loved the Elise and that was that!
Having had both a Seven and (this) 21 - I have to plead guilty to the Emily moniker - I can say they are very different cars and Caterham really didn't understand what to do with the 21. It cost them more to make and they were better off selling Sevens (which are a much purer drivers car). At the time I bought and specified Emily I wanted a Caterham I could drive to Scotland and back from Berkshire (would not have considered doing that in a Seven) so the 21 fitted my needs - but once I had a family the two-seat nature was reason enough for me to find her a more deserving home.
In short, existing Caterham owners found the 21 too unlike a Seven, other potential owners didn't see the point in the hardships (e.g. wearing earplugs when driving with the roof up any distance) when an MX-5 was easier.
Of course, the British motoring press loved the Elise and that was that!
ChimpanLucky said:
I remember rushing to the Caterham stand at the British Motor Show in the mid nineties when they released the 21.
Eager to sample this beauty first hand I managed to blag myself a sit in the car.
Oh dear
As soon as I slid in I knew it wasn't for me, at over 6ft & 13.5 stone it was ridiculously cramped...
Perhaps the production cars' cabins were altered/tweaked? Eager to sample this beauty first hand I managed to blag myself a sit in the car.
Oh dear
As soon as I slid in I knew it wasn't for me, at over 6ft & 13.5 stone it was ridiculously cramped...
I'm 6' 2" and 13st 8lb, and the 21 is one of the most comfortable cars I've driven, ever - did London to Croft, and back again, in one day (hand chronic earache, mind)
NGK210 said:
Perhaps the production cars' cabins were altered/tweaked?
I'm 6' 2" and 13st 8lb, and the 21 is one of the most comfortable cars I've driven, ever - did London to Croft, and back again, in one day (hand chronic earache, mind)
I'd agree that the 21 and comfort go together, it makes a fantastic tourer I'm 6' 2" and 13st 8lb, and the 21 is one of the most comfortable cars I've driven, ever - did London to Croft, and back again, in one day (hand chronic earache, mind)
We did a couple of weeks in the alps in 2004 and the car swallowed our luggage easily without having to resort to the 7 technique of taking 'packing light' 
Coming back on the peage we were cruising comfortably north of 100 leptons and the car just felt made for it, yet while blatting round the mountain passes it was equally at home and entertaining.
We're lucky to have a 21 and a 7, for me a perfect pair of toys
There is also a 21 GTO with a RSTV8 
its in this thread
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
its in this thread
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
GTRene said:
I also loved them when they came out, seen my first on a car-show in the Netherlands in Amsterdam, a green one.
Also have the alu bodied brochure and some magazine info with pictures...lovely.
Also a special version in a car magazine which I had to put online because could never find it online , its about the 21 GTO
which is lovely, see here>>
Honestly I didn't like the 21, but this GTO version with hardtop is just gorgeous... did they produce it? Also have the alu bodied brochure and some magazine info with pictures...lovely.
Also a special version in a car magazine which I had to put online because could never find it online
, its about the 21 GTOwhich is lovely, see here>>
I, too, loved the look of the Caterham 21 and was tempted and excited at the prospect of it being a more practical Seven. I had a Caterham Seven Supersprint at the time I took a test drive in the 21. Initial impressions were not very favourable - the sills were very wide indeed as well as high, so slithering in was quite difficult even with the roof off. Once inside, the interior felt cramped compared with the Seven and visibility was not as good. On the road it felt sluggish compared to the Seven and was very noisy with the roof up (about the same as the Seven). The ride was also similar to the live axle Seven - very firm. The lack of winding windows was a pain, even on the test drive. The steering was heavy but very direct and the clutch was even heavier than the Seven's, which was bad enough. I came away very disappointed. I tried an Elise a short time later and absolutely loved it - good visibility, a breeze to get in and out of with the roof off and (relatively) with the roof on, light and precise steering, light clutch and it really felt like a modern take on the Seven. I loved it and bought one in 1996, had to sell it 6 months later and then managed to buy another (a 1999 model) in 2005, which was also brilliant. My only regret was deciding to sell it rather than bring it to NZ with me. I still want one (as well as a Lotus/Caterham Seven) and I still love the looks of the 21 but fear that I'd wish I'd bought a Seven or Elise instead if I did buy one.
Cock Womble 7 said:
Chris71 said:
I'd love a Caterham 21. I couldn't quite afford one when I bought my Seven, but it probably would have been a better choice in many respects.
In what way?Admittedly mine was pretty uncompromising with an unpadded seat, track suspension, no hood, close ratio 'box and a modified 1600 screamer, so it was hardly touring-orientated even by Seven standards. It would have been great if I had a rural commute or enough time and money to do regular track days, but I actually needed something more touring orientated.
Pah. Softies. Done 138,000 miles in my 21 and still going strong. (You can see it sneakily hiding behind Jack's car in one of the photographs).
Still amazing fun every time I drive it. Managed to get a couple of lovely write-ups in Stuff magazine, Classic and Sportscar (twice) in the last 3 years as well as its second appearance on Top Gear (blink and you'll miss it). C&SC's reviewer rated the build quality and drive as far higher than the equivalent s1 elise and on their second drive of it, commented that it's the first Caterham they've felt like they're sitting "in" rather than "on" (he was a big lad).
I'm 6ft2 and 15 stone and still fit in perfectly (even with size 12 shoes). The art to get in is to jump in over the side sill and look all dukes of hazzard though ;-)
Immensely comfortable tourer. Did Birmingham to Knockhill in one sitting once on a full tank of fuel. Drive it like I've stolen it around all sorts of circuits and regularly lend the keys to racing driver and enthusiast friends to get them to enjoy it.
Have a lovely video of my 21 lapping 7's at Llandow too... That GTO car is now in the US sporting an RST-V8 engine and a squillion brake. The belgian 21-R is available to buy and there is a sneaky rumour (and spy photos) that a privateer over there has dropped a spectacularly upscaled 21 body over a csr chassis as a race silhouette. The 21-R still races and has in the last 6 months clocked up some 1st in class wins in enduro racing over on the continent.
Still amazing fun every time I drive it. Managed to get a couple of lovely write-ups in Stuff magazine, Classic and Sportscar (twice) in the last 3 years as well as its second appearance on Top Gear (blink and you'll miss it). C&SC's reviewer rated the build quality and drive as far higher than the equivalent s1 elise and on their second drive of it, commented that it's the first Caterham they've felt like they're sitting "in" rather than "on" (he was a big lad).
I'm 6ft2 and 15 stone and still fit in perfectly (even with size 12 shoes). The art to get in is to jump in over the side sill and look all dukes of hazzard though ;-)
Immensely comfortable tourer. Did Birmingham to Knockhill in one sitting once on a full tank of fuel. Drive it like I've stolen it around all sorts of circuits and regularly lend the keys to racing driver and enthusiast friends to get them to enjoy it.
Have a lovely video of my 21 lapping 7's at Llandow too... That GTO car is now in the US sporting an RST-V8 engine and a squillion brake. The belgian 21-R is available to buy and there is a sneaky rumour (and spy photos) that a privateer over there has dropped a spectacularly upscaled 21 body over a csr chassis as a race silhouette. The 21-R still races and has in the last 6 months clocked up some 1st in class wins in enduro racing over on the continent.
Top lurking Dave!
I was thinking as I got out of mine this morning that I really have never had any issues getting in and out.
6'2" and 13 ish stone so average I'd say. Yes the sills are wide and yes I've had 12 years to get used to it but it seems ok to me.
They are supremely comfortable but not quiet. A long motorway trip is an acquired taste!
A more practical seven is a better way of looking at them than a more pointy Chimaera or similar. They are very practical for the type of car but anyone looking for an alternative to a Boxster or S2000 would be sadly disappointed from a comfort point of view. Lots of marketing in front of large country house hotels attracted rather the wrong type of client too who probably didn't then buy.
Buts is a great little car.
I was thinking as I got out of mine this morning that I really have never had any issues getting in and out.
6'2" and 13 ish stone so average I'd say. Yes the sills are wide and yes I've had 12 years to get used to it but it seems ok to me.
They are supremely comfortable but not quiet. A long motorway trip is an acquired taste!
A more practical seven is a better way of looking at them than a more pointy Chimaera or similar. They are very practical for the type of car but anyone looking for an alternative to a Boxster or S2000 would be sadly disappointed from a comfort point of view. Lots of marketing in front of large country house hotels attracted rather the wrong type of client too who probably didn't then buy.
Buts is a great little car.
dave21p said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmSkxiA2Wo0
Click on the 720p HD option, turn the speakers up, wait for the warmup lap (ok - about 3 mins in to the video) in and enjoy the noise ;-)
Click on the 720p HD option, turn the speakers up, wait for the warmup lap (ok - about 3 mins in to the video) in and enjoy the noise ;-)
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