RE: Aggressive pricing for new Ford Focus ST
Discussion
otolith said:
I believe the odd perception people have of value for money is the reason for the pricing 
I only point this out because I find it unfathomable that people will look at a relatively low volume (or even seriously low volume) sports car for little more than this car and whinge about the price, but offer them something which is substantially the same as a car Ford can flog for peanuts and they will just look at the headline power figure and ejaculate in their trousers.
I actually have no problem with the pricing if Ford reckon they can get away with it, I'm just amused by people's reactions.
Are you on about the AE86/BRZ?I only point this out because I find it unfathomable that people will look at a relatively low volume (or even seriously low volume) sports car for little more than this car and whinge about the price, but offer them something which is substantially the same as a car Ford can flog for peanuts and they will just look at the headline power figure and ejaculate in their trousers.
I actually have no problem with the pricing if Ford reckon they can get away with it, I'm just amused by people's reactions.
Presumably the people who say this is good value aren't the same ones who claim the BRZ is poor value. I think their both well priced and they both have a point.
If you need to take a kid, dog and shopping in the same car you use for work for similar running costs to a normal family hatch (standard point of a hot hatch), then I can't see how this or it's rivals are a problem.
Wattsie said:
Chrisw666 said:
When you put it like that it is a bit expensive.
Would be good if they sold a base spec car with the ST engine, brakes and suspension, nicer than standard seats and smaller wheels. They could even include basic push button AC and then offer you a choice of options.
I believe the development cost of those parts is what's being recouped in the pricing of the ST.Would be good if they sold a base spec car with the ST engine, brakes and suspension, nicer than standard seats and smaller wheels. They could even include basic push button AC and then offer you a choice of options.
Any part shared with the rest of the range will have already been developed and priced before the ST was given the green light, so the extra cost to Ford is in the development and testing of any part that deviates from the rest - that is, all of the bits which make the ST an ST.
As for seats, by nicer than the standard I meant just the ones from a Zetec or Titanium not those from a race car.
I'd much rather own a car with the power and handling of an ST but the looks of a lesser focus than the inevitable 1.6 petrol and diesel that will have the STs show and none of the go.
Wattsie said:
Exactly, so if coupes have more scope for success the further they are removed from the 5-door sibling, then it would make sense to have a separate model to serve a different market sector that does still show strength.
http://www.worldcarfans.com/112050844112/2015-ford...
A European Mustang would fit the bill perfectly. Dropping the Euro engines into a cheaper rival to the 3 Series, but a cut above the Astra/Megane/Scirocco could make alot of sense, assuming they can make the branding work.
Ford has been working on shifting its image upmarket recently, so with 2 years of brand development before all this becomes relevant, perhaps they can make it a success.
Not sure the Mustang is a good fit in Europe though - the name simply doesn't mean much over here (to Mr Average car buyer) and from memory the styling is not really in keeping with the rest of the Euro range. or are we talking about using the chassis and 're-skinning' it?http://www.worldcarfans.com/112050844112/2015-ford...
A European Mustang would fit the bill perfectly. Dropping the Euro engines into a cheaper rival to the 3 Series, but a cut above the Astra/Megane/Scirocco could make alot of sense, assuming they can make the branding work.
Ford has been working on shifting its image upmarket recently, so with 2 years of brand development before all this becomes relevant, perhaps they can make it a success.
Wattsie said:
Are you on about the AE86/BRZ?
Presumably the people who say this is good value aren't the same ones who claim the BRZ is poor value. I think their both well priced and they both have a point.
If you need to take a kid, dog and shopping in the same car you use for work for similar running costs to a normal family hatch (standard point of a hot hatch), then I can't see how this or it's rivals are a problem.
I think what he is getting at is that a great many people will buy the Focus over the Toyobaru regardless of the practical application of both because it has 247bhp in an easy to use fwd layout. Presumably the people who say this is good value aren't the same ones who claim the BRZ is poor value. I think their both well priced and they both have a point.
If you need to take a kid, dog and shopping in the same car you use for work for similar running costs to a normal family hatch (standard point of a hot hatch), then I can't see how this or it's rivals are a problem.
Chrisw666 said:
Beefier brakes don't take much developing in 2012, then consider the development already done to make the Focus improve on the MK2, the work for the MK2 RS should also help with their development of brakes and suspension and the fact that the engine is already used in the Smax and Mondeo meaning they've already been able to gather a lot of information about how it deals with a lower state of tune and I doubt that they have done a heap of work to gain the extra horses.
As for seats, by nicer than the standard I meant just the ones from a Zetec or Titanium not those from a race car.
I'd much rather own a car with the power and handling of an ST but the looks of a lesser focus than the inevitable 1.6 petrol and diesel that will have the STs show and none of the go.
I agree that it'd be a nice idea - much like they should have made a Ford Racing Fiesta back in 2000, but justifying the development cost to the board is a problem for Team RS (and SVT in the US who collaborate with them on sports models from now on) who make these cars, so I guess they have to price it high to demonstrate the business case and to price it high, it needs to be chock full of goodies to justify it to the customer.As for seats, by nicer than the standard I meant just the ones from a Zetec or Titanium not those from a race car.
I'd much rather own a car with the power and handling of an ST but the looks of a lesser focus than the inevitable 1.6 petrol and diesel that will have the STs show and none of the go.
Greg 172 said:
Not sure the Mustang is a good fit in Europe though - the name simply doesn't mean much over here (to Mr Average car buyer) and from memory the styling is not really in keeping with the rest of the Euro range. or are we talking about using the chassis and 're-skinning' it?
If you have a gander at the article, the styling is moving away from the fastback oldschool look, which must mean it's planned to become a globally appealing coupe to sell all over the world - marketed as Mustang in the Us, but not really an oldschool Mustang like the current one.The next Mondeo is the same car as the next US Ford Fusion, so the model naming could change in Europe - maybe it'll be called the Evos? Again, I'm stabbing guesses here, but I should imagine 'Capri' is either too old a name to bother with or simply not relevant to the current customers, many of whom may have been born after the final Capri was finished.
otolith said:
And similar comments about the Elise CR, the Ginetta G40 and (though it's in a different price bracket entirely) the Alfa 4C.
Playing devils advocate, they could be the same people who bleated on about the M3 GTS being overpriced, but BMW still sold them all and people who wanted them still bought them at that high a price.Half the whingers probably aren't in the market for such a car anyway, priced well or otherwise haha
Edited for pedantry
Edited by Wattsie on Monday 28th May 17:03
Wattsie said:
Greg 172 said:
Not sure the Mustang is a good fit in Europe though - the name simply doesn't mean much over here (to Mr Average car buyer) and from memory the styling is not really in keeping with the rest of the Euro range. or are we talking about using the chassis and 're-skinning' it?
If you have a gander at the article, the styling is moving away from the fastback oldschool look, which must mean it's planned to become a globally appealing coupe to sell all over the world - marketed as Mustang in the Us, but not really an oldschool Mustang like the current one.Cracking! Good to see Ford continue with thier sensible pricing policy on their cars, makes many rival machines look quite over priced.
I look forwards to seeing the final stats & trim levels, because there is every chance the turbo motor will fall within our company car policy CO2 rules. I've always been a 3-door fan when it comes to hatches, but this is probably the nicest looking 5-door around.... all options open, the ST definately makes the next-car-shortlist.
I look forwards to seeing the final stats & trim levels, because there is every chance the turbo motor will fall within our company car policy CO2 rules. I've always been a 3-door fan when it comes to hatches, but this is probably the nicest looking 5-door around.... all options open, the ST definately makes the next-car-shortlist.
Could be a good next car for me.
I drove the Mk2.5 diesel 1.6 for about 15,000 miles and enjoyed that. It would have been the complete car for me had it had more power.
May not be enough power for my next car though, can't find any stats but I would expect 60 in a around 6.5 and 100 in about 16/17 ?
I'd be interested to learn the mpg figure to, just for realities sake. Nothing else.
I drove the Mk2.5 diesel 1.6 for about 15,000 miles and enjoyed that. It would have been the complete car for me had it had more power.
May not be enough power for my next car though, can't find any stats but I would expect 60 in a around 6.5 and 100 in about 16/17 ?
I'd be interested to learn the mpg figure to, just for realities sake. Nothing else.
I think this will be a winner. Everything that was good about the old ST, but with some decent fuel efficiency.
There's something so good about the basic Focus platform that VW, Renault (except on RS), Audi etc just don't seem to be able to match. A combination of suppleness, perfect steering weight, feedback, adjustability and balance.
I got in a Econetic Diesel hire car the other day, and despite the best efforts of its Energy Saving tyres and strangled engine, it couldn't disguise its inherent talent.
The ST maybe doesn't have the showrrom appeal of some of its rivals, but I'd imagine it would be a very satisfying car to bond with over 100k miles or more.
I've never actually bought a new Ford. But I might now.
There's something so good about the basic Focus platform that VW, Renault (except on RS), Audi etc just don't seem to be able to match. A combination of suppleness, perfect steering weight, feedback, adjustability and balance.
I got in a Econetic Diesel hire car the other day, and despite the best efforts of its Energy Saving tyres and strangled engine, it couldn't disguise its inherent talent.
The ST maybe doesn't have the showrrom appeal of some of its rivals, but I'd imagine it would be a very satisfying car to bond with over 100k miles or more.
I've never actually bought a new Ford. But I might now.
auto express and other mags ran articles about the new RS model (2014)
expected to be 2 litre turbo hybrid with the ability to switch from 2wd to 4wd and 200 to 400 bhp..
sounds like insanity but in 2005 if you said the ST would eventually spawn a 350bhp RS500 model you would have laughed...
expected to be 2 litre turbo hybrid with the ability to switch from 2wd to 4wd and 200 to 400 bhp..
sounds like insanity but in 2005 if you said the ST would eventually spawn a 350bhp RS500 model you would have laughed...
6R4 GORDI said:
Mk1 focus RS was the best looking hatch ever made IMO, and the mk2 escort/ 3dr cosssie the best looking road cars ever, but I do like this new focus just don't see many styling cues that hark back to the good old days, make a modern RS2000!!
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