RE: World domination and the Nissan GT-R
Discussion
M@1975 said:
I love the GTR in all its forms and have been privilaged to own an R32 in the past but I can't help thinking it's a little too big at the moment when compared to the cars of the past.
It is brilliant but possibly has a bit less spirit than the R32 or R33 iteration (I've never driven a 34GTR so can't comment).
I have to agree with this.It is brilliant but possibly has a bit less spirit than the R32 or R33 iteration (I've never driven a 34GTR so can't comment).
I love this car in the flesh and in the pictures in Readers' Cars. It is bold and brash with its massive dimensions. Visually it would not have the same impact without those dimensions.
However, as a driver's car on British roads... I would want it smaller and lighter.
vz-r_dave said:
Is it wrong of me to note the cars successes in FIA GT? Those saying that its not at home at the race track confuse me in this respect.
Would that be the V8 engined, 600bhp, silhouette carbon fibre bodied, RWD, FIA GT1 car by any chance? Unless I am mistaken, that is the only GT-R entered in FIA GT at the moment and that car has as much relevance to a normal road going GT-R as a Mini has to a F1 car. Somehow I can't see them adding weight to a GT1 car to make it go faster either 
Guvernator said:
Would that be the V8 engined, 600bhp, silhouette carbon fibre bodied, RWD, FIA GT1 car by any chance? Unless I am mistaken, that is the only GT-R entered in FIA GT at the moment and that car has as much relevance to a normal road going GT-R as a Mini has to a F1 car. Somehow I can't see them adding weight to a GT1 car to make it go faster either
Point taken but your well off with the mini comparisonWhen I drove a non-track pack on a on a track I thought it was a 'horrible' track car. It felt so heavy and was awful under-braking after a little hard-driving. I know it's hardly a fair comparison but I drove an Atom afterwards which put it to shame. As mentioned, it's a stunning road car and I doubt there's anything quicker.
Guvernator said:
The car is just not suited to that environment at all. Sure it can put in a couple of blistering laptimes but try extending that 10 or 100. It's far too heavy and track running costs can be ruinous.
...
At £80k they do not make sense as a track toy which seems to be what they are trying to turn it into. There are far better cars suited to that task for the money.
How can a car that put in a 7.24 Nordschleife lap time "not be suited to that environment at all"? That's an absurd statement. It might only be able to put in 2-3 consistent laps of the Nurburgring before times fall off, but in distance terms that's equivalent to ~8-12 laps of a normal circuit, which is more than good enough for a primarily road-going GT....
At £80k they do not make sense as a track toy which seems to be what they are trying to turn it into. There are far better cars suited to that task for the money.
La Liga said:
When I drove a non-track pack on a on a track I thought it was a 'horrible' track car. It felt so heavy and was awful under-braking after a little hard-driving. I know it's hardly a fair comparison but I drove an Atom afterwards which put it to shame. As mentioned, it's a stunning road car and I doubt there's anything quicker.
Atom puts GTR to shame on track shock horror.La Liga said:
When I drove a non-track pack on a on a track I thought it was a 'horrible' track car. It felt so heavy and was awful under-braking after a little hard-driving. I know it's hardly a fair comparison but I drove an Atom afterwards which put it to shame. As mentioned, it's a stunning road car and I doubt there's anything quicker.
When I drove an Atom I thought it was a 'horrible' car. It felt so small and impractical. I know it's hardly a fair comparison but I drove a GTR afterwards which put it to shame, I could fit my kids and luggage in it! As mentioned, it's a stunning track car and I doubt there's anything quicker.vz-r_dave said:
Is it wrong of me to note the cars successes in FIA GT? Those saying that its not at home at the race track confuse me in this respect.
The GT1 car has a 5.5 litre normally aspirated V8, driving a 6 speed sequential dog box, driving just the rear wheels.In other words it bears no mechanical resemblance to the road car whatsoever apart from its transaxle layout.
Very clever marketing exercise from Nissan!!
The way I see it (and by no means am I claiming I am correct) is that the GTR gets an A* for pretty much everything that it does. The GTR wasn't designed to be first and foremost a machine that floods your fingertips with information. It was designed to eat much for expensive supercars for brekkie, and set blistering lap times, which we all know it does.
Yes it's a heavy machine, but the GTR WILL tear up a circuit if you want it to.. people are talking as if the tyres and brakes go schtum after driving it like it's been stolen. Yes, maybe after one very hot lap of the nordschleife the car needs to cool down but guys, have you seen how big that track is, coupled with all it's elevation changes it's no shock bang horror that you won't be able to give it the full beans for lap after lap after lap.
On average sized circuits (motegi, tsukuba, silverstone) the GTR will consistently deliver outstanding lap times. Go on youtube and look at Best Motoring International's race where they pit the GTR up against an LP560 Gallardo, a Murcielago and a 911 Turbo over a 4 lap battle.. I think you can guess which one wins.
It's perfectly fine that the GTR can't go flat out through every corner at the ring if say for example it's in an endurance race.. that's normal.. endurance races are more about a decent pace coupled with consistency throughout the entire race.
As we all know it's also a fantastic road machine as well. Please do point out if I am chatting utter b****cks.. I'm a massive GTR fan
Yes it's a heavy machine, but the GTR WILL tear up a circuit if you want it to.. people are talking as if the tyres and brakes go schtum after driving it like it's been stolen. Yes, maybe after one very hot lap of the nordschleife the car needs to cool down but guys, have you seen how big that track is, coupled with all it's elevation changes it's no shock bang horror that you won't be able to give it the full beans for lap after lap after lap.
On average sized circuits (motegi, tsukuba, silverstone) the GTR will consistently deliver outstanding lap times. Go on youtube and look at Best Motoring International's race where they pit the GTR up against an LP560 Gallardo, a Murcielago and a 911 Turbo over a 4 lap battle.. I think you can guess which one wins.
It's perfectly fine that the GTR can't go flat out through every corner at the ring if say for example it's in an endurance race.. that's normal.. endurance races are more about a decent pace coupled with consistency throughout the entire race.
As we all know it's also a fantastic road machine as well. Please do point out if I am chatting utter b****cks.. I'm a massive GTR fan
Olivera said:
How can a car that put in a 7.24 Nordschleife lap time "not be suited to that environment at all"? That's an absurd statement. It might only be able to put in 2-3 consistent laps of the Nurburgring before times fall off, but in distance terms that's equivalent to ~8-12 laps of a normal circuit, which is more than good enough for a primarily road-going GT.
2-3 laps? There are cars available which could pound the Nurburgring all day long and still take you home without a hitch. I am not denying that the GT-R has some serious almost unbelievable pace but it is not designed for that environment. I'd suggest as an experiment you get one and try running one as a track toy for a year and come back and tell us how it went? For the record I have owned a couple of previous gen GT'Rs and despite the fact that they are lighter and less complicated than the R35, they still weren't ideal for track work without doing a lot of serious work and spending a lot of money on consumables. The R32 is probably the one GT-R which can be made to work on track relatively easily as it is the simplest and lightest.
The R35 is a very very competent GT\road car but it is not a track car and for Nissan to try to market it as one is disingenous at best.
Guvernator said:
I am not denying that the GT-R has some serious almost unbelievable pace but it is not designed for that environment.
The R35 is a very very competent GT\road car but it is not a track car and for Nissan to try to market it as one is disingenous at best.
Nissan do an enormous amount of GTR testing at the ring. As you can see from various videos they are also keen to set benchmark laptimes in the GTR at the ring. Furthermore they have just ran several road-like Nissan GTRs in the Nurburgring 24h. So I think one can say that as a road going GT car it very much is designed (albeit not solely) for that environment.The R35 is a very very competent GT\road car but it is not a track car and for Nissan to try to market it as one is disingenous at best.
Evo have just tested the GTR with track pack on the ring and stated "The GTR feels like it was made for the Nordschliefe". They further added "You can drive it to the ring, do a dozen laps, then turn around and do 190mph on the way home". This concurs with my two trips to the Nurburgring in the last 6 months, where there seemed to be plenty of GTR owners putting their cars to good use.
Olivera said:
Nissan do an enormous amount of GTR testing at the ring. As you can see from various videos they are also keen to set benchmark laptimes in the GTR at the ring. Furthermore they have just ran several road-like Nissan GTRs in the Nurburgring 24h. So I think one can say that as a road going GT car it very much is designed (albeit not solely) for that environment.
Evo have just tested the GTR with track pack on the ring and stated "The GTR feels like it was made for the Nordschliefe". They further added "You can drive it to the ring, do a dozen laps, then turn around and do 190mph on the way home". This concurs with my two trips to the Nurburgring in the last 6 months, where there seemed to be plenty of GTR owners putting their cars to good use.
Nissan develop their cars at the ring as do all other cars with any kind of sporting credentials, it's just the done thing to post a ring lap time these days. Plus the little fact that they have an unlimited budget and will use it to achieve the sole purpose of setting a fast time. How many hot laps do you think it can manage before it has to come in? Plus if it breaks while testing they can fix it. Evo have just tested the GTR with track pack on the ring and stated "The GTR feels like it was made for the Nordschliefe". They further added "You can drive it to the ring, do a dozen laps, then turn around and do 190mph on the way home". This concurs with my two trips to the Nurburgring in the last 6 months, where there seemed to be plenty of GTR owners putting their cars to good use.
The N24h Nissan's are not road like, check the specs and the best they finished was 30th.
Evo can state what they like as they have the car for a few days and don't have to worry about fixing it or maintaning it. If someone gave me a GT-R to rag around the ring for free, I'd love it too but we live in the real world and car journos don't.
I have a friend who owns a GT-R and has taken it too the ring. His exact words were "it's bloody quick but boy is it expensive, I could have tracked a Ferrari for less". I believe he ended up with a considerable bill for tyres and servicing on his return. Yes you will get this on any car you track but this is further compounded with the GT-R by the fact that it is heavy and some of the pricing on it's consumable are outrageous.
Once again the GT-R is not a track car, despite what Nissan would have to believe.
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