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peter450
1,324 posts
102 months
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To be honest i'd be happy with a 5 Speeder, 6 is ok too, but i really dont see the point of having loads of gears on anything other than some highly strung race engine
Take the 911, it's got a straight six with lots of torque, what real benefit would a 7 speed bring over a 6 speed unit?
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E38Ross
Original Poster
10,499 posts
81 months
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peter450 said: Take the 911, it's got a straight six with lots of torque, what real benefit would a 7 speed bring over a 6 speed unit? well, considering the 7 speed box has basically the first 6 ratios identical the old 6 speed box, it reduces rpm and load on the engine on the motorway and improves extra-urban economy. it's not meant for better acceleration, it's meant for economy and emission regs. why is it so hard for people to understand that? i wonder what the manual but "7 is too many" lovers would do if emission regs meant many cars with 6 speed boxes wouldn't meet emission regs but 7 gears would, what would they do then?!
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DoubleSix
2,499 posts
45 months
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E38Ross said: well, considering the 7 speed box has basically the first 6 ratios identical the old 6 speed box, it reduces rpm and load on the engine on the motorway and improves extra-urban economy. it's not meant for better acceleration, it's meant for economy and emission regs.
why is it so hard for people to understand that?
i wonder what the manual but "7 is too many" lovers would do if emission regs meant many cars with 6 speed boxes wouldn't meet emission regs but 7 gears would, what would they do then?! Yup, fairly simple concept to appreciate.
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Perd Hapley
1,434 posts
42 months
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E38Ross said: well, considering the 7 speed box has basically the first 6 ratios identical the old 6 speed box, it reduces rpm and load on the engine on the motorway and improves extra-urban economy. it's not meant for better acceleration, it's meant for economy and emission regs.
why is it so hard for people to understand that?
i wonder what the manual but "7 is too many" lovers would do if emission regs meant many cars with 6 speed boxes wouldn't meet emission regs but 7 gears would, what would they do then?! Criticise the ridiculous emissions regulations.
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REDALERT
5 posts
11 months
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could bmw be prosecuted for producing a gearbox that women can,t use ??
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Cheib
6,168 posts
44 months
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When I were a lad only dead fancy cars had five speed gear boxes and automatics had three. How times change!
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RUSTLE
19 posts
92 months
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Bah, only 7 speeds? Mitsubishi had 8 speeds back in the 1980's with the Super shift gearbox in the Cordia and Tredia. Well, it was a 4 speed with a dual ratio secondary lever. Felt pretty cool back then.
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Rostfritt
799 posts
20 months
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I can see this being mildly awkward to use. 6 speeds works quite well as the knob sticks in the middle and you pull it one way or the other to select the right gear. Is it going to have a spring like reverse? I would prefer it if you had to pull it past 6 as a sort of 6+ gear. Failing that a sequential box you just pull forwards and back, like a motorcycle box.
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Mark-C
1,712 posts
74 months
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RUSTLE said: Bah, only 7 speeds? Mitsubishi had 8 speeds back in the 1980's with the Super shift gearbox in the Cordia and Tredia. Well, it was a 4 speed with a dual ratio secondary lever. Felt pretty cool back then. Yep ... and in the UK spec Colt/Mirage .... my then wife had one and it was the only exciting feature of the car. Had forgotten all about it! 
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Al 450
1,298 posts
90 months
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E38Ross said: Al 450 said: Ahem, Aston Martin have been making a seven speed manual for over 18 months now. Nice of the Germans to make the effort as well. Really? I'm pretty sure they don't offer one with a stick and clutch. Doesn't matter, it's still a manual gearbox irrespective of how the gears are actuated. An SMG/ASM box shifts gears with a hydraulic actuator instead of a gearknob but it's the same box. The article even mentions BMW developing an SMG version.
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E38Ross
Original Poster
10,499 posts
81 months
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Al 450 said: E38Ross said: Al 450 said: Ahem, Aston Martin have been making a seven speed manual for over 18 months now. Nice of the Germans to make the effort as well. Really? I'm pretty sure they don't offer one with a stick and clutch. Doesn't matter, it's still a manual gearbox irrespective of how the gears are actuated. An SMG/ASM box shifts gears with a hydraulic actuator instead of a gearknob but it's the same box. The article even mentions BMW developing an SMG version. in that case bmw have done too, isn't the 7 speed DCT in the M3 manual? been around for longer than the aston....
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Bladedancer
390 posts
65 months
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I don't see the point, but the gearing does depend on the engine.
I my 330 6 gears are too many. There's so little difference between 5th and 6th than you could remove 5th altogether and it wouldn't make much difference.
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XitUp
7,690 posts
73 months
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kambites said: Why? You'll get the same aerodynamic losses at 70mph regardless or what gear you're in.
It'll depend on the engine. But the more aerodynamic car will need less power to maintain that 70mph. peter450 said: Take the 911, it's got a straight six with lots of torque. No it hasn't.
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iain1970
239 posts
31 months
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My mountain bike has 24 gears, clutchless manual too (whoopee). I use no more than six or seven, the rest are just in the way.
I cannot see that an extra cog is going to be useful or desired in a manual gearbox by the vast majority of buyers, most journeys made by car are short urban ones.
I can only see it appealing to the "Gareth Cheeseman" type, who needs to go one better than his peers at a meeting. Stick it in seven, Motorway heaven.
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Welshbeef
13,029 posts
67 months
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Bladedancer said: I don't see the point, but the gearing does depend on the engine.
I my 330 6 gears are too many. There's so little difference between 5th and 6th than you could remove 5th altogether and it wouldn't make much difference. You have the Getrag gearbox do you not in the 330i? The gear spacing is similar to the 330d but of course the final drive makes it suitable for diesel or petrol. Anyway with the same gearbox in my car as yours 70mph in 6th is 1,750rpm while 70mph in 5th is 2,250rpm. Quite notable.
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El Shafto
68 posts
14 months
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At least they're still pioneering the Manual box. Unlike Mercedes who effectively canned it off all together back in the 90's
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Bladedancer
390 posts
65 months
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Welshbeef said: Bladedancer said: I don't see the point, but the gearing does depend on the engine.
I my 330 6 gears are too many. There's so little difference between 5th and 6th than you could remove 5th altogether and it wouldn't make much difference. You have the Getrag gearbox do you not in the 330i? The gear spacing is similar to the 330d but of course the final drive makes it suitable for diesel or petrol. Anyway with the same gearbox in my car as yours 70mph in 6th is 1,750rpm while 70mph in 5th is 2,250rpm. Quite notable. I see about 300, maybe 400 rpm difference between 5th and 6th. In general that box has 4th, 5th and 6th quite similar. Much bigger difference between 3rd and 4th tho. The only speed that suits the 5th gear is 40mph. Anything below and 4th is better, anything higher and 6th is fine. I find myself using the 5th gear very rarely. When getting up to speed I usually go straight from 4th to 6th. At 70 6th is tad under 2.5k RPM in a petrol. Besides, I'm talking about removing 5th, not 6th ie. you would have 5th have the same gearing as present 6th. On the other hand, the Mazda diesel I had was a 5 speeder crying for a 6th gear as at 70 it was doing 2.5k RPM. So as I said, depends on the engine setup.
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E38Ross
Original Poster
10,499 posts
81 months
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Bladedancer said: I see about 300, maybe 400 rpm difference between 5th and 6th. In general that box has 4th, 5th and 6th quite similar. Much bigger difference between 3rd and 4th tho.
The only speed that suits the 5th gear is 40mph. Anything below and 4th is better, anything higher and 6th is fine. I find myself using the 5th gear very rarely. When getting up to speed I usually go straight from 4th to 6th.
At 70 6th is tad under 2.5k RPM in a petrol.
On the other hand, the Mazda diesel I had was a 5 speeder crying for a 6th gear as at 70 it was doing 2.5k RPM.
So as I said, depends on the engine setup. 3-400rpm at what speed though? The difference between 5th and 6th is 15% which is a pre big difference. At 70mph in 5th your car must be around the 2750 rpm mark, and 6th is actually 2350 which is a fair chunk. Especially if you cruise at say 85mph, 5th would be 3350 so 2850 is a 500rpm drop. I wouldn't call that pointless.
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leef44
259 posts
22 months
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LewisR said: As cars get faster, I guess they need more gears. A 150mph car with 6 gears has more mph/gear than a car with a 100mph and 5 gears and so on. i.e. the engine has to operate over a woder rev. range to cover the speeds from 0 to 150mph. ...and if you pay an extra £10K for the optional "Sports GT" pack then the car will be de-restricted allowing speeds over 155mph and the use of 7th gear.
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k-ink
4,587 posts
48 months
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Just what we need - even more complex cars built down to a price
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