RE: Dany Bahar: terminated
Discussion
It's a shame the 900 series engines were inline 4's and not straight 6's, Lotus first attempt at going upmarket was hampered by the engines, especially on the Esprit
I think this is also hurting the Evora a bit, at the price's there selling them for, there going head to head with some very tasty motors, with some very impressive engines
I'm not quite sure were the company can go from here, i think DB's plan was the right one, but with a focus on launching to many new models and taking his eye off the ball in regards to there current range, the company is now in a bad way, with a new owner who's intentions are not really clear
I think this is also hurting the Evora a bit, at the price's there selling them for, there going head to head with some very tasty motors, with some very impressive engines
I'm not quite sure were the company can go from here, i think DB's plan was the right one, but with a focus on launching to many new models and taking his eye off the ball in regards to there current range, the company is now in a bad way, with a new owner who's intentions are not really clear
peter450 said:
It's a shame the 900 series engines were inline 4's and not straight 6's, Lotus first attempt at going upmarket was hampered by the engines, especially on the Esprit
Maybe but remember the UK was in the grip of a fuel crisis and petrol rationing around 1974 so I doubt bigger engines would have helped. The whole point was meant to be light and efficient.just for balance ...
Dany Bahar wanted Lotus to be successful - building expensive luxury sports cars and competing with brands such as Ferrari and Maserati, just like they did back in the 1970's and 1980's.
There isn't enough volume or profit margin in the 'lightweight trackday market' to sustain their business, 14 years of losses have proved that. Losses that Lotus' shareholders were no longer prepared to sustain. And losses that prevented Lotus from improving their products sufficiently to bury the age-old (and often unjustified) quality perception problems.
So, to return to the heyday of selling expensive luxury sports cars at a profit, he had to attract the right people, and significant investment, to pursue that goal.
It's hard to see how he would have attracted either, without not only raising awareness of the brand, but improving the image of the brand too.
Hence the attempts at motorsports involvement, celebrity endorsements, swanky new dealerships, and new state-of-the-art manufacturing facilities under construction right here in the UK.
He wasn't alone in his quest - he had the backing of Lotus' board of directors, he had no problem attracting some big names from elsewhere in the industry to join the project, and of course Proton were backing him too.
Its all very well commentators here and elsewhere suggesting Lotus should 'do this' or 'build that', but if your suggestions cannot convince investors or shareholders, they are worthless. His suggestions did .
However, I offer no sympathy for him if he had his fingers in the till.
Dany Bahar wanted Lotus to be successful - building expensive luxury sports cars and competing with brands such as Ferrari and Maserati, just like they did back in the 1970's and 1980's.
There isn't enough volume or profit margin in the 'lightweight trackday market' to sustain their business, 14 years of losses have proved that. Losses that Lotus' shareholders were no longer prepared to sustain. And losses that prevented Lotus from improving their products sufficiently to bury the age-old (and often unjustified) quality perception problems.
So, to return to the heyday of selling expensive luxury sports cars at a profit, he had to attract the right people, and significant investment, to pursue that goal.
It's hard to see how he would have attracted either, without not only raising awareness of the brand, but improving the image of the brand too.
Hence the attempts at motorsports involvement, celebrity endorsements, swanky new dealerships, and new state-of-the-art manufacturing facilities under construction right here in the UK.
He wasn't alone in his quest - he had the backing of Lotus' board of directors, he had no problem attracting some big names from elsewhere in the industry to join the project, and of course Proton were backing him too.
Its all very well commentators here and elsewhere suggesting Lotus should 'do this' or 'build that', but if your suggestions cannot convince investors or shareholders, they are worthless. His suggestions did .
However, I offer no sympathy for him if he had his fingers in the till.
I rather liked the new Lotus lineup, especially the Eterne, but not so much the Esprit.
I think the path to financial success and stability is probably best reached by making that City Car Concept, the Ethos, faster, competitively priced, and more distinctive than any other microcar competitor. Lookswise, it is not there. Performance-wise, it is not there, but it is the type of vehicle that can get people driving Lotuses and looking to upgrade.
In the US, there are only the Smart, the Mini, and the Fiat 500 in this market and none provide performance like Lotus should be able to come up with.
I think the path to financial success and stability is probably best reached by making that City Car Concept, the Ethos, faster, competitively priced, and more distinctive than any other microcar competitor. Lookswise, it is not there. Performance-wise, it is not there, but it is the type of vehicle that can get people driving Lotuses and looking to upgrade.
In the US, there are only the Smart, the Mini, and the Fiat 500 in this market and none provide performance like Lotus should be able to come up with.
DonkeyApple said:
SFO said:
Built in Germany, and not cheap or foreign labour.
The most valuable model is the Cayenne. It's nearly 50% of sales and has the best margins. It's built in eastern Europe. More importantly are where the parts are made and part assembled.
SFO said:
the comparison was to Porsche's sports car range, built in Zuffenhaussen, outside Stuttgart. And Leipzig is in Germany.
In fairness it wasn't, it was in reference to how much larger manufacturers can build cheaper. "The problem comes when you just do some fag packet sums on the costs.
Just add up man hours, engine, chassis, electrics, body, dealer margin, etc and see what number you get to. Then add profit. And this only takes into account a mere fraction of the expenditure and costs.
Porsche can build cheap as it uses cheap foreign labour and had the money in the first instance to invest in smart build design etc. same with the MX5 and all other products from mass producers. "
Meteor Madness said:
just for balance ...
Dany Bahar wanted Lotus to be successful - building expensive luxury sports cars and competing with brands such as Ferrari and Maserati, just like they did back in the 1970's and 1980's.
There isn't enough volume or profit margin in the 'lightweight trackday market' to sustain their business, 14 years of losses have proved that. Losses that Lotus' shareholders were no longer prepared to sustain. And losses that prevented Lotus from improving their products sufficiently to bury the age-old (and often unjustified) quality perception problems.
So, to return to the heyday of selling expensive luxury sports cars at a profit, he had to attract the right people, and significant investment, to pursue that goal.
It's hard to see how he would have attracted either, without not only raising awareness of the brand, but improving the image of the brand too.
Hence the attempts at motorsports involvement, celebrity endorsements, swanky new dealerships, and new state-of-the-art manufacturing facilities under construction right here in the UK.
He wasn't alone in his quest - he had the backing of Lotus' board of directors, he had no problem attracting some big names from elsewhere in the industry to join the project, and of course Proton were backing him too.
Its all very well commentators here and elsewhere suggesting Lotus should 'do this' or 'build that', but if your suggestions cannot convince investors or shareholders, they are worthless. His suggestions did .
However, I offer no sympathy for him if he had his fingers in the till.
that's less than accurate though....Dany Bahar wanted Lotus to be successful - building expensive luxury sports cars and competing with brands such as Ferrari and Maserati, just like they did back in the 1970's and 1980's.
There isn't enough volume or profit margin in the 'lightweight trackday market' to sustain their business, 14 years of losses have proved that. Losses that Lotus' shareholders were no longer prepared to sustain. And losses that prevented Lotus from improving their products sufficiently to bury the age-old (and often unjustified) quality perception problems.
So, to return to the heyday of selling expensive luxury sports cars at a profit, he had to attract the right people, and significant investment, to pursue that goal.
It's hard to see how he would have attracted either, without not only raising awareness of the brand, but improving the image of the brand too.
Hence the attempts at motorsports involvement, celebrity endorsements, swanky new dealerships, and new state-of-the-art manufacturing facilities under construction right here in the UK.
He wasn't alone in his quest - he had the backing of Lotus' board of directors, he had no problem attracting some big names from elsewhere in the industry to join the project, and of course Proton were backing him too.
Its all very well commentators here and elsewhere suggesting Lotus should 'do this' or 'build that', but if your suggestions cannot convince investors or shareholders, they are worthless. His suggestions did .
However, I offer no sympathy for him if he had his fingers in the till.
Lotus made a shed load from the Elise, the problem was they wasted it on indecision/vanity projects.
Yes, the trackday market is not huge, but it's enough for Atom/Ginnetta/Caterham/Westfield/etc. to survive.
Yes, they needed new cars, but to try and push 5 though in one go was just fantasy, the money to do this needed to be huge, what they needed to do is get ONE car out, the Esprit, then look at the next.
All that said, it would appear that a lot of the £270M was pissed up the wall, not used to get anything new out the door.
(I should say I was no fan of the previous management, the Evora was/is a disaster and since the Elise, that's all they have done.)
JonRB said:
I was lucky enough that my dad did own one. A white S3 complete with black metal slats on the rear window round about 1982. Bloody fantastic being regularly dropped off at school in James Bond's car. 
Here's a pic taken just before he sold it.
Lotus Esprit by JonRB, on Flickr
Can't get over the comedy off-road ride height and balloon tyres.
Nice! I honestly thought my dad , who worked in a factory could afford one... Don't supposed you fantasised about blowing up Caroline Munroe on your trip to school?Here's a pic taken just before he sold it.
Lotus Esprit by JonRB, on Flickr
Can't get over the comedy off-road ride height and balloon tyres.
Junglehop said:
Its our only hope!
Goodwood should be interesting!
problem with that is that just to service the £270M debt is going to cost ~£10M/pa, and that's a lot in the context of sod all car sales.Goodwood should be interesting!
even if the Exige S is a massive sales hit, and they manage to make/shift 3,000 PA, that's £3.3K per car off the bottom line...
Lotus' new owners said:
"I would like to assure you that we remain committed to ensure the ongoing and future business operations of the Lotus Group as we take the Lotus Group to the next level to remain relevant in the global automotive industry.
Shouldn't read too much into it, but that seems a very careful way not to talk about actually building cars. They've got rid of the one guy who was actually talking about building new models, the engineering consultancy side is the only part that makes money.. wonder what will happen next?Edited by Tuna on Saturday 9th June 15:45
Scuffers said:
Pointless...
Lotus could never compete against the mainstream manufacture with the same kind of product.
Lotus need to be ahead of the innovation game, else they will die.
That is the only thing that could possibly save Lotus,(innovation) applying the advanced technology that Lotus Engineering possess (like the range extender engine/electric powertrain expertese) to their own products.Lotus could never compete against the mainstream manufacture with the same kind of product.
Lotus need to be ahead of the innovation game, else they will die.
Their new vehicle line up needs to be cutting edge like the up and coming BMW i8, not rehashed stuff like the Exige V6 S , which is just more of the same, and to be honest lagging behind the times.
The Evora 414e would have been an excellent vehicle to put into production IMO.
Edited by WayneB on Monday 11th June 02:40
WayneB said:
The Evora 414e would have been an excellent vehicle to put into production IMO.
Didn't the 414e emerge (no pun intended) as the Infiniti Emerg-e concept at Geneva this year:http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/infiniti-emerg-...
Not sure how production ready some of this stuff is, though it makes good headlines.
mattyc69 said:
This may be a load of s
t and don't flame me for it but I love in Norfolk and a bloke at works brother works at Lotus and apparently Nissan are buying them out. Personally I think it is a load of rubbish but I just wanted to get it on here just incase it does happen.
Never loved in Norfolk myself, how fares it?t and don't flame me for it but I love in Norfolk and a bloke at works brother works at Lotus and apparently Nissan are buying them out. Personally I think it is a load of rubbish but I just wanted to get it on here just incase it does happen. iphone by chance?
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