RE: Driven: Audi RS4
Discussion
Real issue I see with the b8 rs4.... Is the c7 S6.
The s6 is faster (according to car and driver *considerably* so), same adjustable sport suspension and diff, bigger tank, 25% more economy, 50% more range, cheaper tax band (saloon is only 260), like for like spec is cheaper, more toys (night vision + HUD), more advanced and tunable twin turbo v8 engine (peak torque at 1700 rpm or something like that), same dct gearbox, more practical, saloon option...
Only downside is that it's bigger and heavier.
But considering that it has effective price parity with the rs4 it's quite a tough call.
Also means the rs6 will have to come with a free moon!
The s6 is faster (according to car and driver *considerably* so), same adjustable sport suspension and diff, bigger tank, 25% more economy, 50% more range, cheaper tax band (saloon is only 260), like for like spec is cheaper, more toys (night vision + HUD), more advanced and tunable twin turbo v8 engine (peak torque at 1700 rpm or something like that), same dct gearbox, more practical, saloon option...
Only downside is that it's bigger and heavier.
But considering that it has effective price parity with the rs4 it's quite a tough call.
Also means the rs6 will have to come with a free moon!
Nors said:
hotmelt said:
So M3 much better, and even a Merc is better. Better than average understeery Audis though.
A really constructive and informed post there! Did that take you a long time to compose?
hotmelt said:
So M3 much better, and even a Merc is better. Better than average understeery Audis though.
have you ever encountered under-steer on the B7 RS4?FWDRacer said:
"Only wakes up when thrashed".
Am I the only one that thinks this alone takes away the "every car for every occasion" mantra that was so appealing about the last RS4?
All the gizmo's leave me stone cold. Inuitive technology - yes. Gizmo w
kfest. Count me out as an "early adopter".
that's what happends when jurno's have to say something...Am I the only one that thinks this alone takes away the "every car for every occasion" mantra that was so appealing about the last RS4?
All the gizmo's leave me stone cold. Inuitive technology - yes. Gizmo w
kfest. Count me out as an "early adopter".the reality of the V8's is that they are really nice to drive every day, they can poodle along at low revs with no issues etc., but if you want to hear them at their best, then yes, you have to use the top segment of the tacho, this is no different to any high performance NA engine though.
it is a step change from the supercharged V6 in the S4 though, that's almost the complete opposite.
cienzod said:
Sounds like another missed opportunity. I've driven the previous RS4, which was simply brilliant. Wanted to buy new, but missed the boat. Thoroughly tested the S4 which was OK, but over-complex and could not get the right settings (and when you stopped & started the car would ALWAYS default back to Comfort!). I hated the s-Tronic gearbox and that age-old Audi Achilles heel of cutting the throttle when the brake pedal was touched, which wasn't there on the RS...eventually bought an E90 M3 and haven't looked back at Audi.
I was hoping the looks would match, but...it's not to be.
S4 defaults to Auto not Comfort when switched off which I find to be a reasonable compromise. You can store your own preferences for gearbox, diff, etc in the Individual setting which is accessed with two pushes of a button when you start the car, so hardly complex.I was hoping the looks would match, but...it's not to be.
Like the article says, set the gearbox and diff to "full on" and suspension to normal and it's much much more responsive and a better drive than full Auto mode - I like the fact you can change the drive experience depending on what you want at the time. Never noticed this cutting the throttle you mention.
I found the RS5 lacking low down so I guess this RS4 will be much the same, I'd like to have seen some sort of forced induction motor in the RS4 to give it more flexibility. Not everyone wants to drive around at 6 - 8k just to get it to go. Bet it sounds great though when mated with the sports exhaust.
E38Ross said:
i don't even see why it's being compared to the M3 at all since there is no saloon variant.
Ah, a sensible statement.I'm not convinced by this latest RS4 either, but statements like above, and one liners calling it ugly, are plain un-informed prejudice, add nothing, and I wish they'd just *iss off, it's getting really really boring.
Edited by Nors on Thursday 14th June 09:57
Moog72 said:
S4 defaults to Auto not Comfort when switched off which I find to be a reasonable compromise. You can store your own preferences for gearbox, diff, etc in the Individual setting which is accessed with two pushes of a button when you start the car, so hardly complex.
Like the article says, set the gearbox and diff to "full on" and suspension to normal and it's much much more responsive and a better drive than full Auto mode - I like the fact you can change the drive experience depending on what you want at the time. Never noticed this cutting the throttle you mention.
I found the RS5 lacking low down so I guess this RS4 will be much the same, I'd like to have seen some sort of forced induction motor in the RS4 to give it more flexibility. Not everyone wants to drive around at 6 - 8k just to get it to go. Bet it sounds great though when mated with the sports exhaust.
I was wondering if you can save your settings. Don't know why this wasn't mentioned in the article? So, it give you a wide choice of settings (which would be an absolute pain if you had to do that everytime you got in the car) but once you've found a preference, save it and forget it. So, hardly complex as you say, so, why is it being made such an issue of. Like the article says, set the gearbox and diff to "full on" and suspension to normal and it's much much more responsive and a better drive than full Auto mode - I like the fact you can change the drive experience depending on what you want at the time. Never noticed this cutting the throttle you mention.
I found the RS5 lacking low down so I guess this RS4 will be much the same, I'd like to have seen some sort of forced induction motor in the RS4 to give it more flexibility. Not everyone wants to drive around at 6 - 8k just to get it to go. Bet it sounds great though when mated with the sports exhaust.
Having never owned or driven the B7 I cant comment on the car. I did however have an 2010 M3 Saloon for 1 year and since last November a C63 Saloon (facelift) both of which are fantastic cars, the lack of 4wd when getting to work at 6am regardless of conditions is key for me. My wife had an early S3 Sportback and the B8 S4 Avant, both of which were called upon in the bad weather, the M3 was 6 days old and it did not then move for 6 weeks in November 2010 (moral of story is don't buy new cars at start of winter). There is a quality RS4 on Pistonheads with 12900 miles keeps calling every time I see the ad (not the owner just my wanting to buy one)
Edited by RJC63 on Thursday 14th June 11:05
Moog72 said:
S4 defaults to Auto not Comfort when switched off which I find to be a reasonable compromise. You can store your own preferences for gearbox, diff, etc in the Individual setting which is accessed with two pushes of a button when you start the car, so hardly complex.
Like the article says, set the gearbox and diff to "full on" and suspension to normal and it's much much more responsive and a better drive than full Auto mode - I like the fact you can change the drive experience depending on what you want at the time. Never noticed this cutting the throttle you mention.
I found the RS5 lacking low down so I guess this RS4 will be much the same, I'd like to have seen some sort of forced induction motor in the RS4 to give it more flexibility. Not everyone wants to drive around at 6 - 8k just to get it to go. Bet it sounds great though when mated with the sports exhaust.
Yes, you're quite right is does default to Auto and yes, I'll grant it isn't that complex...but, the buttons were set (as I recall) relatively low down in the central console. So, if I started in Auto and then mid-drive (come onto a stretch of road that I like) want to change...taking my eyes off the road to rotate through settings isn't (IMHO) the safest of options. On the M3 I could do that at a press of a button on the steering wheel and transform my car from saloon to road racer. One of main reasons I opted for the BMW over the Audi.Like the article says, set the gearbox and diff to "full on" and suspension to normal and it's much much more responsive and a better drive than full Auto mode - I like the fact you can change the drive experience depending on what you want at the time. Never noticed this cutting the throttle you mention.
I found the RS5 lacking low down so I guess this RS4 will be much the same, I'd like to have seen some sort of forced induction motor in the RS4 to give it more flexibility. Not everyone wants to drive around at 6 - 8k just to get it to go. Bet it sounds great though when mated with the sports exhaust.
Now don't get me wrong...I really want to love the current S4/RS4 they're great cars to look at, but I have to say that apart from the B7 that I wish I'd owned, driving wise Audi seemed to have missed the point again and that's disappointing.
Regarding the cutting of the the throttle. Left-foot braking technique. Brake with left foot, but keep right foot on accelerator. The throttle SHOULD remain open = de-stabilise the rear end to assist in front wheels to pull you round a corner whilst rear end widens depending upon how much throttle you are applying. In the S4 (and other Audis I've owned) it cuts the throttle, which has the effect of you "over-braking" which leads to under-steer, when you should (in a 4WD or FWD) be expecting over-steer = new trousers and driver's seat upholstery needing cleaned!
goron59 said:
Seems to be a lot of confusing/conflicting criticism...
Not enough low down torque, bad for everyday driving / No manual option.
Given that it's a flex of a left finger to drop a cog or two (or right foot if you're really lazy), it's not exactly taxing, and more fun anyway.
Trust me, the "not enough low down torque" drivers must drive stump pulling tractors for a living. Leave it in 5th from 30, put your foot down, and you;ll still be faster than pretty much every other car surrounding you, even ones giving it beans. If you actually want beans, drop a cog as you suggest - hell, drop 3 and really show them who's king of the slip road =)Not enough low down torque, bad for everyday driving / No manual option.
Given that it's a flex of a left finger to drop a cog or two (or right foot if you're really lazy), it's not exactly taxing, and more fun anyway.
ads_green said:
Real issue I see with the b8 rs4.... Is the c7 S6.
The s6 is faster (according to car and driver *considerably* so), same adjustable sport suspension and diff, bigger tank, 25% more economy, 50% more range, cheaper tax band (saloon is only 260), like for like spec is cheaper, more toys (night vision + HUD), more advanced and tunable twin turbo v8 engine (peak torque at 1700 rpm or something like that), same dct gearbox, more practical, saloon option...
Only downside is that it's bigger and heavier.
But considering that it has effective price parity with the rs4 it's quite a tough call.
Also means the rs6 will have to come with a free moon!
wouldnt be an issue for me, the A6 class is just too bloody big, you sail them rather than drive them, S models generally are pretty soft and dull compared to the RS models as wellThe s6 is faster (according to car and driver *considerably* so), same adjustable sport suspension and diff, bigger tank, 25% more economy, 50% more range, cheaper tax band (saloon is only 260), like for like spec is cheaper, more toys (night vision + HUD), more advanced and tunable twin turbo v8 engine (peak torque at 1700 rpm or something like that), same dct gearbox, more practical, saloon option...
Only downside is that it's bigger and heavier.
But considering that it has effective price parity with the rs4 it's quite a tough call.
Also means the rs6 will have to come with a free moon!
cienzod said:
Regarding the cutting of the the throttle. Left-foot braking technique. Brake with left foot, but keep right foot on accelerator. The throttle SHOULD remain open = de-stabilise the rear end to assist in front wheels to pull you round a corner whilst rear end widens depending upon how much throttle you are applying. In the S4 (and other Audis I've owned) it cuts the throttle, which has the effect of you "over-braking" which leads to under-steer, when you should (in a 4WD or FWD) be expecting over-steer = new trousers and driver's seat upholstery needing cleaned!
think you will find most makes will cut the throttle on brake application, it's the fall out from the US hysteria of run-away cars.
Some Gump said:
goron59 said:
Seems to be a lot of confusing/conflicting criticism...
Not enough low down torque, bad for everyday driving / No manual option.
Given that it's a flex of a left finger to drop a cog or two (or right foot if you're really lazy), it's not exactly taxing, and more fun anyway.
Trust me, the "not enough low down torque" drivers must drive stump pulling tractors for a living. Leave it in 5th from 30, put your foot down, and you;ll still be faster than pretty much every other car surrounding you, even ones giving it beans. If you actually want beans, drop a cog as you suggest - hell, drop 3 and really show them who's king of the slip road =)Not enough low down torque, bad for everyday driving / No manual option.
Given that it's a flex of a left finger to drop a cog or two (or right foot if you're really lazy), it's not exactly taxing, and more fun anyway.
E38Ross said:
Some Gump said:
goron59 said:
Seems to be a lot of confusing/conflicting criticism...
Not enough low down torque, bad for everyday driving / No manual option.
Given that it's a flex of a left finger to drop a cog or two (or right foot if you're really lazy), it's not exactly taxing, and more fun anyway.
Trust me, the "not enough low down torque" drivers must drive stump pulling tractors for a living. Leave it in 5th from 30, put your foot down, and you;ll still be faster than pretty much every other car surrounding you, even ones giving it beans. If you actually want beans, drop a cog as you suggest - hell, drop 3 and really show them who's king of the slip road =)Not enough low down torque, bad for everyday driving / No manual option.
Given that it's a flex of a left finger to drop a cog or two (or right foot if you're really lazy), it's not exactly taxing, and more fun anyway.
Got to love pistonheads. When the latest M5 came out with it's grunty twin turbo V8 everyone bemoans the passing of the old revvy N/A engine. So Audi provides a revvy N/A engine in the RS4 and everyone complains it needs to be revved! It's no worder the manufacturers never listen to 'us' 
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