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marcosgt
6,182 posts
45 months
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cmoose said: marcosgt said: Thanks - I've not driven an MX5, but I agree the Toyobaru should be a generation better.
M Don't think the difference is anything to do with generations or newer tech or anything like that. It's purely down to Toyota / Subaru deciding to do a proper sports car. Technically speaking, no reason they couldn't have built something as good 10 years ago. Well God knows WHAT Toyota have been doing for the last 10 years - Presumably that's obvious by the fact they had to ask Subaru how to build a sportscar...  Still, it looks a great car, just a shame the back seats are a joke. M.
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cmoose
18,550 posts
98 months
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marcosgt said: Well God knows WHAT Toyota have been doing for the last 10 years - Presumably that's obvious by the fact they had to ask Subaru how to build a sportscar... M. To be fair, everybody else has been busily developing / building turbo-paddled-playstationed barges. So at least somebody went back to basics!
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marcosgt
6,182 posts
45 months
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cmoose said: marcosgt said: Well God knows WHAT Toyota have been doing for the last 10 years - Presumably that's obvious by the fact they had to ask Subaru how to build a sportscar... M. To be fair, everybody else has been busily developing / building turbo-paddled-playstationed barges. So at least somebody went back to basics! Mmmm - Mazda never really abandoned it did they? But it is good to see a BIG manufacturer building a car with the focus on driving enjoyment for once, I agree. It'd be great to see what VW, GM or Ford could do if they put their mind to it. (Merc and BMW will charge too much for such a car). M
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cmoose
18,550 posts
98 months
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marcosgt said: Mmmm - Mazda never really abandoned it did they? Not entirely. But the MX-5 did become blander and blander. Hopefully the GT86 will give Mazda the kick it needs to make the MX-5 really fun again.
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marcosgt
6,182 posts
45 months
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cmoose said: marcosgt said: Mmmm - Mazda never really abandoned it did they? Not entirely. But the MX-5 did become blander and blander. Hopefully the GT86 will give Mazda the kick it needs to make the MX-5 really fun again. Indeed, although is the GT86 as pure as the Mk1 MX-5? Reports suggest Mazda are aiming much more for that objective though, which can only be good  M.
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bicycleshorts
1,557 posts
30 months
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Well, we went along to Western Toyota in Edinburgh this weekend to see what the deal was. Admittedly didn't get off to a good start since we assumed "Western" was a geographical hint, so ended up at West Western Toyota rather than East Western Toyota. Anyways, it became apparent that the salesman wasn't giving us much time when he didn't bother listening to us, couldn't answer fairly simple questions (e.g. when are you getting the TRD bits in?) and wandered off randomly. We briefly discussed financing, he reckoned £5k deposit, £400 per month and a £11k balloon. The balloon was probably pushing my finances and would require some thrift, but the rest was definitely in budget - the monthly payment was actually less than the Abarth. As it stands at the minute, having been defending this car since the concept came out, I'm now definitely no longer a prospective customer. I'd suggest that Toyota tell their salesmen to get their heads out of the arses, realise that the target market includes a 25 year old, jeans and t-shirt wearing, "young professional" and get arses in seats for proper test drives so people can fall in love with driving the car. If for no reason other than I'll definitely be looking in a few years when I can buy privately and avoid salesmen altogether
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hornetrider
40,732 posts
74 months
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cmoose said: Not entirely. But the MX-5 did become blander and blander. Hopefully the GT86 will give Mazda the kick it needs to make the MX-5 really fun again. I should take you out for a spin sometime. I refute your allegation that the MX5 is now bland.
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cmoose
18,550 posts
98 months
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hornetrider said: I should take you out for a spin sometime. I refute your allegation that the MX5 is now bland. Well, I have driven one, albeit only for about 30 mins last summer. It just did not engage me. Engine is definitely anonymous and my recollection of the controls at this stage is borderline zero...original MX-5 and indeed the 86 much more immediately engaging - that's my impression, anyway.
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LouD86
1,198 posts
22 months
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bicycleshorts said: Well, we went along to Western Toyota in Edinburgh this weekend to see what the deal was. Admittedly didn't get off to a good start since we assumed "Western" was a geographical hint, so ended up at West Western Toyota rather than East Western Toyota. Anyways, it became apparent that the salesman wasn't giving us much time when he didn't bother listening to us, couldn't answer fairly simple questions (e.g. when are you getting the TRD bits in?) and wandered off randomly. We briefly discussed financing, he reckoned £5k deposit, £400 per month and a £11k balloon. The balloon was probably pushing my finances and would require some thrift, but the rest was definitely in budget - the monthly payment was actually less than the Abarth. As it stands at the minute, having been defending this car since the concept came out, I'm now definitely no longer a prospective customer. I'd suggest that Toyota tell their salesmen to get their heads out of the arses, realise that the target market includes a 25 year old, jeans and t-shirt wearing, "young professional" and get arses in seats for proper test drives so people can fall in love with driving the car. If for no reason other than I'll definitely be looking in a few years when I can buy privately and avoid salesmen altogether Sorry to hear you didnt have a good time at the Toyota dealership. I would hope it was down to one individual, rather than the brand itself. We are going to be seeing a different Clientel to normal, which will be a change for us, but I cant see age being an issue. In regards to the TRD parts, we havent had any official news in the network as to when we can supply these, hence the vagueness.
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hornetrider
40,732 posts
74 months
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cmoose said: hornetrider said: I should take you out for a spin sometime. I refute your allegation that the MX5 is now bland. Well, I have driven one, albeit only for about 30 mins last summer. It just did not engage me. Engine is definitely anonymous and my recollection of the controls at this stage is borderline zero...original MX-5 and indeed the 86 much more immediately engaging - that's my impression, anyway. Interesting. Did you give it a good thrashing? I've got 20k miles on mine now and also owned a very sorted Mk1 for 18 months. The newer car is certainly less agricultural and compared with the Mk1 has a veneer of refinement on top of the Mk1. Which in my view is no bad thing. What I have found though is that whilst it will do pootling around perfectly well, it only really comes alive when you start to work the car and push on. For me it provides far more driver enjoyment than my 986S ever did, albeit with lower quality damping - the one weak point of the car. Objectively though, it goes faster, stops quicker and feels a whole lot more planted than the Mk1.
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cmoose
18,550 posts
98 months
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It was on the hill route at Millbrook, so yeah, pushed fairly hard. Not saying it's a bad car, just not engaging. Surprised you find it more engaging than a 986. 986 has nicer steering, nicer brakes, much nicer engine. I wouldn't even put them in the same ballpark.
I also think that with a car like an MX-5 it is a bad thing if you have to drive it hard for the thing to come alive. It's a small rear-drive sports car, so I want it to be engaging and different to drive from a shopping, which the current MX-5 isn't, terribly, at pootling speeds.
As I said before, it was only a brief drive and I may be selling it short. I don't actually remember that much, just an impression of a car that felt pretty generic and modern, over assisted etc if extremely competent. I was expecting it to have more immediate character.
I'm sure if I lived with one I'd have at least a slightly different view of it.
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em177
1,168 posts
33 months
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bicycleshorts said: Well, we went along to Western Toyota in Edinburgh this weekend to see what the deal was. Admittedly didn't get off to a good start since we assumed "Western" was a geographical hint, so ended up at West Western Toyota rather than East Western Toyota. Anyways, it became apparent that the salesman wasn't giving us much time when he didn't bother listening to us, couldn't answer fairly simple questions (e.g. when are you getting the TRD bits in?) and wandered off randomly. We briefly discussed financing, he reckoned £5k deposit, £400 per month and a £11k balloon. The balloon was probably pushing my finances and would require some thrift, but the rest was definitely in budget - the monthly payment was actually less than the Abarth. As it stands at the minute, having been defending this car since the concept came out, I'm now definitely no longer a prospective customer. I'd suggest that Toyota tell their salesmen to get their heads out of the arses, realise that the target market includes a 25 year old, jeans and t-shirt wearing, "young professional" and get arses in seats for proper test drives so people can fall in love with driving the car. If for no reason other than I'll definitely be looking in a few years when I can buy privately and avoid salesmen altogether From another prospective of someone who was with bicycleshorts yesterday...I dont have much to add to that apart from the fact I was genuinely amazed at how much the salesman couldnt give a f  k about trying to sell us he ruddy car! ..... A car which I'm sure, after a couple of decent test drives, some time sat down (rather than pulling figures from his head outside) discussing finances, there could well of been an opportunity for him to have had 2 deposits on over £50k worth of 2 brand new cars!...... Money which (well my half anyway) is now being looked into the non sensible option of a weekend toy TVR :P
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hornetrider
40,732 posts
74 months
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cmoose said: Surprised you find it more engaging than a 986. 986 has nicer steering, nicer brakes, much nicer engine. I wouldn't even put them in the same ballpark. 986S was a very good car with a lovely engine but suffice to say felt like a GT car in comparison to the MX5. It only really got interesting at license losing speeds which whilst enjoyable at the time, is not really sustainable driving like that day to day. Which is why I bought the MX5. Incidentally, the brakes on the 3.5 are amazing, I couldn't imagine wanting more braking power in the car unless I was to punish it on track.
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cmoose
18,550 posts
98 months
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Interesting. Obviously 986s aren't at all shouty cars in terms of dynamics and feed back - people often overlook them for that reason, they're not at all in your face. And they do indeed have a relaxed gait and do indeed feel a larger car than an MX-5. But personally, I think they're pretty delightful to pootle in. You can enjoy the sheer polish and quality of the steering, the brake feel, the engine and box, the chassis feel, all at low speed. It's a quality item in that respect.
That was my problem with the current MX-5 vs the original model, it just felt like a generic modern box at low speed.
(Having said all that I actually think the 986's steering is a bit over rated, but that's another story!)
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braddo
2,979 posts
57 months
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em177 said: From another prospective of someone who was with bicycleshorts yesterday...I dont have much to add to that apart from the fact I was genuinely amazed at how much the salesman couldnt give a f k about trying to sell us he ruddy car! ..... A car which I'm sure, after a couple of decent test drives, some time sat down (rather than pulling figures from his head outside) discussing finances, there could well of been an opportunity for him to have had 2 deposits on over £50k worth of 2 brand new cars!...... Money which (well my half anyway) is now being looked into the non sensible option of a weekend toy TVR :P I think you guys are giving up too easily. Why not try another dealer? It would be a shame if you decided against the car purely because of that one experience at that one dealer. Or try the competing product at Subaru? 
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bicycleshorts
1,557 posts
30 months
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braddo said: I think you guys are giving up too easily. Why not try another dealer? It would be a shame if you decided against the car purely because of that one experience at that one dealer. Or try the competing product at Subaru? I did, I got told if I wanted to see a BRZ I'd have to go to the horse show next weekend  Euan has also been to the other dealer in Edinburgh, though admittedly not since Richard posted in this thread. Given the amount of money, it'd have to be a car I would fall in love, I can't be arsed to do that now. Annoyingly I already got past barrier one by checking if the missus liked the look of it! Think I'll wait around a year or two and see how these age... Spend the money in the meantime on prepping the MR2 for racing. Ironically that'll probably end up costing me more than £400 a month if I did a full season
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yahtzee
294 posts
27 months
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order placed
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Ved
1,449 posts
44 months
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yahtzee said: order placed Good show, that man! Specs and price please
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Richard Stewart
19 posts
10 months
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Now having spent a fair bit of time driving both manual and the auto paddle shift - it's a hard call...
Both cars are superb, I'm also fortunate to have seen all the colour combinations..
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cmoose
18,550 posts
98 months
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Richard Stewart said: Now having spent a fair bit of time driving both manual and the auto paddle shift - it's a hard call... You must be joking.
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