Free horsepower
Discussion
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Looking at this post http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Byard notes that, in asking about an engine change, he may need a replacement engine.
Still a good post though.
Looking at this post http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a... Byard notes that, in asking about an engine change, he may need a replacement engine.
Still a good post though.
J4CKO said:
Seen a lot of scoffing at this admitedly half baked, possibly dangerous idea but little actual proof it wouldnt work at all, 5th Injector, Nitrous Systems and water injection all dump stuff in via this method.
I am not convinced either way as to whether it may make extra power, I am sure a hetto installation is probably dangerous and destructive but I want the opinion of actual engineers or someone who has tried it, the Maestro story sounds reasonable to me, so come on, someone who designs Diesel engines please comment on whether this may work before it explodes, catches fire or stops the engine.
I was thinking that it doesnt matter if it is direct injection as the fuel will be injected as normal but there will already be diesel in the intake air, nitrous works by introducing more Oxygen at the same time as more fuel being added so as long as the additional fuel actually gets atomised and doesnt just pool in the intake it may make some minimal difference, depends how the ecu copes, it may just lean out what is being injected due to the prescence of the additional fuel via the lambda loop.
Precisely my point. It's easy to point and scoff but there has been little science so far. The point about pre-detonation may be the killer though. If that is the case, then it's never going to work. Supplement diesel for something else though, like methanol as has been mentioned and you may see some gain. Take things a step further and use a gas such as LPG and boom- you have a massive increase in performance!I am not convinced either way as to whether it may make extra power, I am sure a hetto installation is probably dangerous and destructive but I want the opinion of actual engineers or someone who has tried it, the Maestro story sounds reasonable to me, so come on, someone who designs Diesel engines please comment on whether this may work before it explodes, catches fire or stops the engine.
I was thinking that it doesnt matter if it is direct injection as the fuel will be injected as normal but there will already be diesel in the intake air, nitrous works by introducing more Oxygen at the same time as more fuel being added so as long as the additional fuel actually gets atomised and doesnt just pool in the intake it may make some minimal difference, depends how the ecu copes, it may just lean out what is being injected due to the prescence of the additional fuel via the lambda loop.
http://www.tinleytech.co.uk/acatalog/Diesel_Conver...
PoleDriver said:
We've been researching a very similar system.
To make it work to maximum efficiency you need to place on of these just after your air filter:-
You should then inject your 'extra' diesel in after this. Doing this will give the required atomisation for the new mixture.
Stage 2 is to add one of these:-
The hydrogen and extra oxygen will double your power!
I believe Redline magazine actually tried one of these a few years ago in a test, purely to prove the myth that they work wrong. They don't just not work, they actually lost the car they tried it on power because it was basically causing a blockage in the inlet To make it work to maximum efficiency you need to place on of these just after your air filter:-
You should then inject your 'extra' diesel in after this. Doing this will give the required atomisation for the new mixture.
Stage 2 is to add one of these:-
The hydrogen and extra oxygen will double your power!
DanDC5 said:
I believe Redline magazine actually tried one of these a few years ago in a test, purely to prove the myth that they work wrong. They don't just not work, they actually lost the car they tried it on power because it was basically causing a blockage in the inlet
They actually had to buy one, fit it and test it to find that out??!! 
J4CKO said:
Seen a lot of scoffing at this admitedly half baked, possibly dangerous idea but little actual proof it wouldnt work at all, 5th Injector, Nitrous Systems and water injection all dump stuff in via this method.
I am not convinced either way as to whether it may make extra power, I am sure a hetto installation is probably dangerous and destructive but I want the opinion of actual engineers or someone who has tried it, the Maestro story sounds reasonable to me, so come on, someone who designs Diesel engines please comment on whether this may work before it explodes, catches fire or stops the engine.
I was thinking that it doesnt matter if it is direct injection as the fuel will be injected as normal but there will already be diesel in the intake air, nitrous works by introducing more Oxygen at the same time as more fuel being added so as long as the additional fuel actually gets atomised and doesnt just pool in the intake it may make some minimal difference, depends how the ecu copes, it may just lean out what is being injected due to the prescence of the additional fuel via the lambda loop.
Please refer to my previous postI am not convinced either way as to whether it may make extra power, I am sure a hetto installation is probably dangerous and destructive but I want the opinion of actual engineers or someone who has tried it, the Maestro story sounds reasonable to me, so come on, someone who designs Diesel engines please comment on whether this may work before it explodes, catches fire or stops the engine.
I was thinking that it doesnt matter if it is direct injection as the fuel will be injected as normal but there will already be diesel in the intake air, nitrous works by introducing more Oxygen at the same time as more fuel being added so as long as the additional fuel actually gets atomised and doesnt just pool in the intake it may make some minimal difference, depends how the ecu copes, it may just lean out what is being injected due to the prescence of the additional fuel via the lambda loop.
If you add diesel to the inlet, you will cause pre-detonation which will quickly kill the engine. When people tune diesel cars through extra turbo boost or nitrous, extra diesel can only be supplied via the diesel injection system. J4CKO said:
Seen a lot of scoffing at this admitedly half baked, possibly dangerous idea but little actual proof it wouldnt work at all, 5th Injector, Nitrous Systems and water injection all dump stuff in via this method.
Not on a diesel engine they don't. Fuel needs to be injected at a precise point in the compression cycle. Diesel nitrous systems either add the extra fuel through the injectors or use something higher octane like LPG, which doesn't explode due to the compression heating.If Diesel enters with the air on the down stroke it will mess with the timing of the injectors, lots of horrible banging and destruction ensues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&...
Yachtworker said:
If Diesel enters with the air on the down stroke it will mess with the timing of the injectors, lots of horrible banging and destruction ensues.
If that Diesel becomes atomised (and this is possible - the motion of the air entering the combustion chamber is pretty violent) then it will ignite too early in the compression stage of the otto cycle - this isn't good, as it's the same as "pinking" in a petrol engine which can cause holes in pistons plus stresses elsewhere which can harm an engine.If it remains liquid then it will raise the compression ratio which isn't ideal either. This could well harm the engine if there is say just a few cc of Diesel in each cylinder per cycle - the tolerances are fine and this includes the compression ratio. This would be a massive amount of diesel fuel going in, because there are so many cycles per second, so is pretty unlikely unless there is a catostrophic instantaneous input of diesel.
The injectors will inject as and when they are "told to" by their ECU, regardless of any erroneous Diesel in the combustion chambers already.
The outcome as per your post is pretty likely (if not certain?), though...
For those questioning why oil leaks from turbos cause "runaway" - if the engine oil going from the inlet side of the turbo to the engine is "finely divided" (ie in the form of a "fine spray") then it can be burnt and the engine will "runaway" uncontrollably; but if the oil is in the form of coarse droplets or even a trail of liquid, it won't "runaway" - just like the OP's hasn't (so far
).An issue some diesels see is that when the compressor seals fail on the turbocharger the charge air cooler ends up with oil pooling within it. This isn't particularly harmful until the engine is run on full boost up a hill, at which point the oil can be drawn into the air feeding the cylinders, resulting in thermal overload, excessive cylinder pressures or both. Neither of those is good. Put enough fuel or oil in and the engine can overspeed and attempting to turn the engine off will do nothing on any throttleless diesel. The OP's idea in effect does the same thing. It might give some extra power but the cost will be high and in the form of a replacement engine.
hairykrishna said:
J4CKO said:
Seen a lot of scoffing at this admitedly half baked, possibly dangerous idea but little actual proof it wouldnt work at all, 5th Injector, Nitrous Systems and water injection all dump stuff in via this method.
Not on a diesel engine they don't. Fuel needs to be injected at a precise point in the compression cycle. Diesel nitrous systems either add the extra fuel through the injectors or use something higher octane like LPG, which doesn't explode due to the compression heating.J4CKO said:
Ok, that's all I was after, makes sense it being compression ignition, but even then wouldn't there need to be a high enough ratio of diesel in the intake to actually ignite ?
If the fuel can get into the cylinders, once the cylinder has compressed the air enough to get it to the point where the fuel will combust, then the fuel has a chance of doing so.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff