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Ari
7,197 posts
84 months
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HeatonNorris said: If the plate is being removed, why show it in the photos in the advert?
Wouldn't be a little white lie to make the vehicle appear more attractive, would it? I'll ask again, do you imagine most people with a personal plate simply leave it on the car when they part exchange it?
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jonnydrama
225 posts
33 months
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Eh? Did you miss the rest of the post where this guy told me he'd have to get permission from directors to then get a discount of under £500? Then when he told me he wouldn't deliver the car because I would have more protection under distance selling laws? It doesn't bode well when you've already spoken to other BMW dealers who have no problem delivering cars, infact it makes you think they've got something to hide. I didn't get angry at any point, I just didn't enjoy being messed about. If someone makes you an offer and it's not acceptable then why waste their time? People get angry with tyre kickers and timewasters, I tried to do the exact opposite so I'm struggling to see the problem? You're right though, if the guy hadn't been a douche then we might've had a deal and perhaps for more than the £44k I started at. What I DIDN'T appreciate was being called back with a finance quote for the car at the full price, after I'd said we could do a deal at £44k. When you then get 3 more calls afterwards gradually getting towards the price you originally stated, you don't want to buy the car from a bulls  tter anymore. Then being given the final price but it wouldn't be possible to confirm it was do-able unless I was at the dealership when the salesman phoned whoever he needed to? The whole thing reeked from start to finish. You seem to be missing the point though Butter face. This car appeared to be overpriced to the tune of about £2k, that is comparing it to 20+ similarly specced cars on a BMW national search. I thought I would give the dealers a chance to sell a car hassle free and explained that I was comparing it to similar examples. If the deal couldn't be done then I was cool with that as it wouldn't put me up nor down, I just didn't want to waste either either parties time. I liked the look of the piano black trim (and it is actually a rare option) so it was worth a try, the other trims were by no means impossible to live with. If I hadn't ended up buying a new house I would have done exactly what you've said and bought another example. Why the hell would I go out of my way to deal with someone being so obtuse when there was 20+ other examples? Butter Face said: Fox- said: Butter Face said: And you were willing to buy a car, unseen, miles away that was listed at way more money, for some black plastic trim?
Call me cynical, but I don't believe that. Why wouldn't you buy one locally, for less money, that you can see and then replace the trim with piano black? What? His approach is totally common for Approved Used cars from main dealers. I bought my 335i from a dealer 200 miles away without seeing it before agreeing a deal. Why wouldn't you, especially on cars like this? It's not like buying a 6 year old Focus LX from Bobs Car Sales is it? This is why many of the dealers offer Nationwide delivery. Many people shop nationally on the AUC site. Once you know that you want an XYZ, you browse the AUC site until one matching the spec you want pops up, then you try and get it for what you want to pay. If the dealer plays ball, you buy, if not, you keep searching. I'd imagine loads of sub 4 year old BMW's are bought this way. I understand that. My doubts are based on the fact he was trying to haggle £1800 off a car because he had seen others at lower prices, but wanted this one because it had black interior trim. To get angry because a dealer will only give a small amount of discount is completely irrational. Why not buy one listed at 44k and get some money off to get the trim replaced for piano black. I would understand if it was some massively rare option, but it's not. I recently sold a car to a customer in yorkshire because he wanted the exact spec (not just a different coloured trim) we worked out a fair price for both of us. Which this chap could have done if he hadn't been so hard nosed. £1800 off, and £200-300 worth of transport? Madness.
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HeatonNorris
1,649 posts
17 months
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Ari said: HeatonNorris said: If the plate is being removed, why show it in the photos in the advert?
Wouldn't be a little white lie to make the vehicle appear more attractive, would it? I'll ask again, do you imagine most people with a personal plate simply leave it on the car when they part exchange it? Depends on the plate. If it's 'personal', ie. initials / name, then no, they wouldn't. If it's matched to the car, then they probably would. If it's just some kind of 'ageless' plate, then you don't know. Maybe the dealer made an offer on both together, with a plan to split them for extra profit? I think a dealer may even fall into the hands of trading standards by picturing the car with a plate on it that is then removed on sale, if they haven't made it clear in the advert that the plate isn't included.
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Ari
7,197 posts
84 months
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Or you could simply ask...? 
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HeatonNorris
1,649 posts
17 months
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Ari said: Or you could simply ask...? You could, yes - but the point is that you shouldn't picture something not included without making it very clear that it's not included. See the adverts for things like iPhone speakers as an example, they all have to clearly state 'iPhone not included' if they picture one in their advertising material.
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Butter Face
5,686 posts
29 months
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HeatonNorris said: Ari said: Or you could simply ask...? You could, yes - but the point is that you shouldn't picture something not included without making it very clear that it's not included. See the adverts for things like iPhone speakers as an example, they all have to clearly state 'iPhone not included' if they picture one in their advertising material. Bleach also has 'do not drink' on the back of it. It's there to cater to morons.
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whoami
7,059 posts
109 months
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Ari said: whoami said: All one-sided then? Well I suppose it could be a coincidence that certain people find every single car salesman they ever deal with to be an "a hole" or "w ker" I suppose  Strangely, I've searched but i simply can't find, the dozens of threads about plumbers, dog walkers, programmers, gardeners, DJ's, architects, draughtsmen, milkmen, jockeys, chimney sweeps, beauticians, upholsterers, accountants etc that you find about folk selling cars. I suppose that could be coincidence too. 
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Munich
922 posts
65 months
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TKH said: Bloody hell! Why did you have to post a link to a youtube clip. I have just waisted the last 4 hours of my life watching clips about badgers and other bad salesmen....
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HeatonNorris
1,649 posts
17 months
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Butter Face said: Bleach also has 'do not drink' on the back of it. It's there to cater to morons. Not even vaguely comparable. Example... I see a Honda Fireblade (older one) advertised with the plate 'CBR 900R' on it... (and it does exist) One of the big attractions over other Fireblades is that it's displaying said plate, as it matches the bike. Then I go to have a look, only to find out that the plate isn't being sold with the bike. Was it wrong to assume that it was going to be sold with the bike? - especially as it matches and it's shown in the photos? In this case, I'd say the dealer would know exactly what he was doing - he was letting people believe the plate was to come with the bike in order to make it look more attractive than the dozens of other Fireblades for sale.
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boobles
12,154 posts
84 months
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My only real negative gripe with a dealership I tried dealing with 7 years ago was when I phoned the guy up & told him that I interested in one of his cars (told him which one) & told him that if I liked it, I would buy it. Booked a test drive & drove 75 miles to test drive it. On my arrival I could see the car in question parked in the centre of their showroom & surrounded by approx 10 cars. I introduced myself to the guy & told him that I had a test drive booked in said car only for him to say "Ah, that means I have to move all them other cars for you to take it out" I asked him if he was being serious & he said yes! I called him a prick & walked out. I bought an identical car from somewhere else 2 weeks after & they lost out in 12k.
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Efbe
4,855 posts
35 months
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Dealer agrees to fix the aircon on a car before sale.
After sale I realise the aircon is not fixed. phone him up upon which he states...
" I only said I would get a garage to have a look at it[the aircon], that didn't mean I would fix it, just have a look at it."
firstly that was a lie, he even said it was fixed whn I picked it up. But seriously even if not, what the hell did you expect, that I would be happy for you to just look and check it is broken then leave it?!?
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LuS1fer
28,471 posts
114 months
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HeatonNorris said: Was it wrong to assume that it was going to be sold with the bike? - especially as it matches and it's shown in the photos? Yes it was unlwss ther price was vastly inflated to take it into account for the valuation. No such thing as a free ride.
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Ari
7,197 posts
84 months
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whoami said: Strangely, I've searched but i simply can't find, the dozens of threads about plumbers, dog walkers, programmers, gardeners, DJ's, architects, draughtsmen, milkmen, jockeys, chimney sweeps, beauticians, upholsterers, accountants etc that you find about folk selling cars. I suppose that could be coincidence too. Seriously?? You're on a car forum and wondering why there are threads complaining about car sales but not about beauticians and jockeys? 
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Little Lofty
285 posts
20 months
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Efbe said: Dealer agrees to fix the aircon on a car before sale.
After sale I realise the aircon is not fixed. phone him up upon which he states...
" I only said I would get a garage to have a look at it[the aircon], that didn't mean I would fix it, just have a look at it."
firstly that was a lie, he even said it was fixed whn I picked it up. But seriously even if not, what the hell did you expect, that I would be happy for you to just look and check it is broken then leave it?!? Yes some dealers are experts in half truths, Ive heard some dealers use the term 'HPI checked' , meaning the car was checked with HPI but it doesn't always mean it's HPI clear.I've lost count of the amount of cars that are advertised as immaculate and are on the forecourt ready to go, but as soon as you point out a couple a defects, all of a sudden they havn't been through the workshop and all the repairs will be carried out, or in other words they would rather you find a different car so they can sell this heap to someone who hasn't got a clue.
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Butter Face
5,686 posts
29 months
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HeatonNorris said: Butter Face said: Bleach also has 'do not drink' on the back of it. It's there to cater to morons. Not even vaguely comparable. Example... I see a Honda Fireblade (older one) advertised with the plate 'CBR 900R' on it... (and it does exist) One of the big attractions over other Fireblades is that it's displaying said plate, as it matches the bike. Then I go to have a look, only to find out that the plate isn't being sold with the bike. Was it wrong to assume that it was going to be sold with the bike? - especially as it matches and it's shown in the photos? In this case, I'd say the dealer would know exactly what he was doing - he was letting people believe the plate was to come with the bike in order to make it look more attractive than the dozens of other Fireblades for sale. I was bidding on a number plate on eBay that was advertised on a Lamborghini. Imagine my horror when I realised it didn't come with the car!!!!! DISGUSTING. Your logic is flawed, if the plate is of interest to you then YOU should ask. Your assumption is your f k up.
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HeatonNorris
1,649 posts
17 months
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If the dealer wasn't trying to mislead, then why not remove / blank the plate, or make it clear in the advert?
The answer, of course, is that they know exactly what they're doing.
You'll note that a large majority of private adverts will state 'plate not included' to save such confusion.
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buyer&seller
164 posts
47 months
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Bradgate said: The calibre of people employed as car salesmen is generally poor, particularly at car supermarkets and mainstream dealerships. Most salesmen I have encountered appear from the quality of their written and verbal communication to be of average intelligence and to have had little or no post-GCSE education. Many are, frankly, semi-literate.
Standards of product knowledge are generally poor, often laughably so. As I understand it, any unqualified individual can get a job selling cars. Perhaps this is part of the problem? Bradgate, please share with us what it is that you do for a living?
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Efbe
4,855 posts
35 months
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Little Lofty said: Efbe said: Dealer agrees to fix the aircon on a car before sale.
After sale I realise the aircon is not fixed. phone him up upon which he states...
" I only said I would get a garage to have a look at it[the aircon], that didn't mean I would fix it, just have a look at it."
firstly that was a lie, he even said it was fixed whn I picked it up. But seriously even if not, what the hell did you expect, that I would be happy for you to just look and check it is broken then leave it?!? Yes some dealers are experts in half truths, Ive heard some dealers use the term 'HPI checked' , meaning the car was checked with HPI but it doesn't always mean it's HPI clear.I've lost count of the amount of cars that are advertised as immaculate and are on the forecourt ready to go, but as soon as you point out a couple a defects, all of a sudden they havn't been through the workshop and all the repairs will be carried out, or in other words they would rather you find a different car so they can sell this heap to someone who hasn't got a clue. ah well, seems like the guy won't even listen to me, so the tough route it will have to be. I get so bored these days talking to phone companies, energy companies, etc explaining to them what they should be doing, now to have it with a dealer is just annoying. means I have far less tolerance for people messed around :/
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Jordan Rich
76 posts
11 months
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The warranties that go with cars from pretty much any dealer get right up our (businesses) nose. The customers car breaks and you read through the million word small-print essay only to find it only covers breakdown of the passenger side rear inner door handle or something. You then have to explain to the pissed off customer who is about to get a large bill which they think the salesman will be paying, that in fact they were sold a warranty that is worth less than the paper its written on.
For the car dealers, its only income, thats why they are dodgy and scam you out of all the money they can.
We also sell the occasional car, but we are first and foremost a Garage, car sales contribute very little to our profits, therefore we wont by any old cr@p and sell it at the highest price possible, it will be serviced (PROPERLY serviced, another irritation is having to service the car someone has just bought because all the dealer has actually done is topped up the screenwash and cleaned the engine cover and slapped a SERVICED sticker across the windscreen!) MOT-ed etc etc. and will leave in the best possible condition, that way we get happy customers with nice cars who will then bring them back to us for a service and MOT.
If you sell someone a nightmare of a car which is riddled with problems, you wont see them again if you manage to get out of refunding them. I dont know of many people who come away happy from buying a car at a dealers, in fact quite a few of our customers have got quite violently pissed off at dealers when we tell them the truth behind what they have been sold.
If your buying a car, find a specialist garage (of whatever it is you are looking for) and ask them if they know of a nice one for sale, perhaps one they have done the servicing on, or that they could check over for you). A small business is much more likely to be reliable and helpful than a big corporation with a stack of worthless warranties to get rid of!
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Deerfoot
1,879 posts
53 months
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stuwalsh said: Perhaps we should have a topic on the scams pulled by punters:
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nicking tax discs off the screens on handover Hmm, I`m confused by this one. I`d have thought that the `punter` would`ve bought and therefore owned the tax disc so would hardly be nicking it off the screen, or have I missed something? Perhaps you expect to be left some other stuff that was in the car when it was appraised, maybe that nice jacket in the boot or the ipod in the centre console?
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