RE: Tell me I'm wrong: Porsche 911 Cabriolet
Discussion
There is definitely a 911 scale and most Pistonheads know how it works.
It works on several axes... but best from left to right
1. coupe, targa, cabriolet.
2. manual, pdk, tiptronic
3. age (older is normally better but 996 at the bottom)
4. normally aspirated air cooled, air cooled turbo, wet, wet turbo
5. S is better than standard or T or E models
6. specials - ex race/rally cars, R models, RSR, ST, RS, Club Sport, GT3, GT2, Speedster
7. Compromise is cooler. Roll cage, straight through system, rose joints, no radio or a/c.
Using the above seven tier system we can classify all 911s/ However, there are probably some cars it does not work on: such as the 993 GT2 ranks higher than all GT3s incl RS models!
This really should be put into a matrix for young Pistonheads to learn at 10 years old.
It works on several axes... but best from left to right
1. coupe, targa, cabriolet.
2. manual, pdk, tiptronic
3. age (older is normally better but 996 at the bottom)
4. normally aspirated air cooled, air cooled turbo, wet, wet turbo
5. S is better than standard or T or E models
6. specials - ex race/rally cars, R models, RSR, ST, RS, Club Sport, GT3, GT2, Speedster
7. Compromise is cooler. Roll cage, straight through system, rose joints, no radio or a/c.
Using the above seven tier system we can classify all 911s/ However, there are probably some cars it does not work on: such as the 993 GT2 ranks higher than all GT3s incl RS models!
This really should be put into a matrix for young Pistonheads to learn at 10 years old.
Edited by PILCH 23 on Friday 22 June 10:27
Edited by PILCH 23 on Friday 22 June 10:37
I love the 911 cabrio. Always have.
And I have no time for the "real men only drive hard tops" thing, coupled with the notion that every single powerfully built company IT director that is apparently the PH demographic, are driving gods with the skills of Hamilton and the wit of Stephen Fry.
I will say only this. Although I love convertibles, I do dislike the attention. I feel a bit of a berk when I am driving one in town. Maybe I have self esteem issues, who knows. But the sense of attention you would get in a 911 convertible ( let alone something like a Gallardo ! ) is just inappropriate. I am not Peter Andre or Christiano Ronaldo.
And look at the picture below. Its a lovely car but whats with the shiny white head in the drivers seat? If one of his mates was sat next to him it would look like 1984 again and instantly create a rumour that Bronski Beat were reforming..
A lovely car though. I think I would have one (C4 of course ) at my Swiss mountain villa, near Gstaad. Such showing off is entirely appropriate over there.
And I have no time for the "real men only drive hard tops" thing, coupled with the notion that every single powerfully built company IT director that is apparently the PH demographic, are driving gods with the skills of Hamilton and the wit of Stephen Fry.
I will say only this. Although I love convertibles, I do dislike the attention. I feel a bit of a berk when I am driving one in town. Maybe I have self esteem issues, who knows. But the sense of attention you would get in a 911 convertible ( let alone something like a Gallardo ! ) is just inappropriate. I am not Peter Andre or Christiano Ronaldo.
And look at the picture below. Its a lovely car but whats with the shiny white head in the drivers seat? If one of his mates was sat next to him it would look like 1984 again and instantly create a rumour that Bronski Beat were reforming..
A lovely car though. I think I would have one (C4 of course ) at my Swiss mountain villa, near Gstaad. Such showing off is entirely appropriate over there.
kambites said:
I think I'd put Targa and Cabrio the other way around. The Targa always struck me as the worst of both worlds - no more rigid than the cab; not as much fresh-air as the cab; and uglier than either.
Yes perhaps. Interesting counterpoint. But the glass roof idea was nice and I think a Pistonhead may slip to a Targa in a moment of weakness, but the average Cabriolet buyer probably doesn't even know what Pistonheads is!it's your money everybody so buy what you want with it , all views are personel
I PERSONALLY don't like the look of the soft top 911 or the weight or loss of rigidity which is why i spent my hard earned on a gen 1 C2s , a lot of people don't like speed yellow, i do which is why thats the colour i brought!
with a lotto win then it's a speed yellow turbo s (manual)coupe (pdk if i had to) but you know what ? i'd keep my C2s as well because i love it's narrow body large engine and N/A throttle response!
oh and i seriously covet the GT3rs 4.0l ,,,, sigh...........
I PERSONALLY don't like the look of the soft top 911 or the weight or loss of rigidity which is why i spent my hard earned on a gen 1 C2s , a lot of people don't like speed yellow, i do which is why thats the colour i brought!
with a lotto win then it's a speed yellow turbo s (manual)coupe (pdk if i had to) but you know what ? i'd keep my C2s as well because i love it's narrow body large engine and N/A throttle response!
oh and i seriously covet the GT3rs 4.0l ,,,, sigh...........
PILCH 23 said:
There is definitely a 911 scale and most Pistonheads know how it works.
It works on several axes... but best from left to right
1. coupe, targa, cabriolet.
2. manual, pdk, tiptronic
3. age (older is normally better but 996 at the bottom)
4. normally aspirated air cooled, air cooled turbo, wet, wet turbo
5. S is better than standard or T or E models
6. specials - ex race/rally cars, R models, RSR, ST, RS, Club Sport, GT3, GT2, Speedster
7. Compromise is cooler. Roll cage, straight through system, rose joints, no radio or a/c.
Using the above six tier system we can classify all 911s/ However, there are probably some cars it does not work on: such as the 993 GT2 ranks higher than all GT3s incl RS models!
This really should be put into a matrix for young Pistonheads to learn at 10 years old.
I forgot to add the 2wd versus 4wd line but that should have been obvious.It works on several axes... but best from left to right
1. coupe, targa, cabriolet.
2. manual, pdk, tiptronic
3. age (older is normally better but 996 at the bottom)
4. normally aspirated air cooled, air cooled turbo, wet, wet turbo
5. S is better than standard or T or E models
6. specials - ex race/rally cars, R models, RSR, ST, RS, Club Sport, GT3, GT2, Speedster
7. Compromise is cooler. Roll cage, straight through system, rose joints, no radio or a/c.
Using the above six tier system we can classify all 911s/ However, there are probably some cars it does not work on: such as the 993 GT2 ranks higher than all GT3s incl RS models!
This really should be put into a matrix for young Pistonheads to learn at 10 years old.
Edited by PILCH 23 on Friday 22 June 10:27
Therefore if you crave a cabriolet, turbo, 4wd, auto, 996 (like my friend previously had) you've missed the point entirely (like Guru Murphy!).
PILCH 23 said:
There is definitely a 911 scale and most Pistonheads know how it works.
It works on several axes... but best from left to right
1. coupe, targa, cabriolet.
2. manual, pdk, tiptronic
3. age (older is normally better but 996 at the bottom)
4. normally aspirated air cooled, air cooled turbo, wet, wet turbo
5. S is better than standard or T or E models
6. specials - ex race/rally cars, R models, RSR, ST, RS, Club Sport, GT3, GT2, Speedster
7. Compromise is cooler. Roll cage, straight through system, rose joints, no radio or a/c.
Using the above six tier system we can classify all 911s/ However, there are probably some cars it does not work on: such as the 993 GT2 ranks higher than all GT3s incl RS models!
This really should be put into a matrix for young Pistonheads to learn at 10 years old.
Very good, but no mention of the flatnose!!!It works on several axes... but best from left to right
1. coupe, targa, cabriolet.
2. manual, pdk, tiptronic
3. age (older is normally better but 996 at the bottom)
4. normally aspirated air cooled, air cooled turbo, wet, wet turbo
5. S is better than standard or T or E models
6. specials - ex race/rally cars, R models, RSR, ST, RS, Club Sport, GT3, GT2, Speedster
7. Compromise is cooler. Roll cage, straight through system, rose joints, no radio or a/c.
Using the above six tier system we can classify all 911s/ However, there are probably some cars it does not work on: such as the 993 GT2 ranks higher than all GT3s incl RS models!
This really should be put into a matrix for young Pistonheads to learn at 10 years old.
Edited by PILCH 23 on Friday 22 June 10:27
A 993 turbo flatnose would be ideal.
Dusty964 said:
PILCH 23 said:
There is definitely a 911 scale and most Pistonheads know how it works.
It works on several axes... but best from left to right
1. coupe, targa, cabriolet.
2. manual, pdk, tiptronic
3. age (older is normally better but 996 at the bottom)
4. normally aspirated air cooled, air cooled turbo, wet, wet turbo
5. S is better than standard or T or E models
6. specials - ex race/rally cars, R models, RSR, ST, RS, Club Sport, GT3, GT2, Speedster
7. Compromise is cooler. Roll cage, straight through system, rose joints, no radio or a/c.
Using the above six tier system we can classify all 911s/ However, there are probably some cars it does not work on: such as the 993 GT2 ranks higher than all GT3s incl RS models!
This really should be put into a matrix for young Pistonheads to learn at 10 years old.
Very good, but no mention of the flatnose!!!It works on several axes... but best from left to right
1. coupe, targa, cabriolet.
2. manual, pdk, tiptronic
3. age (older is normally better but 996 at the bottom)
4. normally aspirated air cooled, air cooled turbo, wet, wet turbo
5. S is better than standard or T or E models
6. specials - ex race/rally cars, R models, RSR, ST, RS, Club Sport, GT3, GT2, Speedster
7. Compromise is cooler. Roll cage, straight through system, rose joints, no radio or a/c.
Using the above six tier system we can classify all 911s/ However, there are probably some cars it does not work on: such as the 993 GT2 ranks higher than all GT3s incl RS models!
This really should be put into a matrix for young Pistonheads to learn at 10 years old.
Edited by PILCH 23 on Friday 22 June 10:27
A 993 turbo flatnose would be ideal.
Dear Dan,
I'm in the fortunate position to look at this in a more relaxed way.
I drive a 996GT2 and a 993 Cabrio (manual). I bought the cab after the GT2 because I wanted a more relaxed drive from time to time and I like open top motoring on a nice sunshiny day here in the swiss mountains (or the nearby German Black Forrest).
I agree the design is inherently flawed but I look at the 993 as a classic 911 and I love these - so I accept the design flaws as part of its character/heritage (and even got to like them).
From a dynamic point of view - let's be realistic: There is more than enough on offer to enjoy the car on a winding country/mountain road. You can sharp it up a little for not a lot of money should that be necessary. And the sound (let's say with a proper exhaust) in the open top is just adding a lot to the experience.
And if I want to scare myself properly I just take the GT2.
So what I want to say is: You're choice depends on what you want to do and experience with the car. That said - I haven't warmed yet to the 991 (not sure I will) and would certainly go for the Boxster...
Regards
Hans
I'm in the fortunate position to look at this in a more relaxed way.
I drive a 996GT2 and a 993 Cabrio (manual). I bought the cab after the GT2 because I wanted a more relaxed drive from time to time and I like open top motoring on a nice sunshiny day here in the swiss mountains (or the nearby German Black Forrest).
I agree the design is inherently flawed but I look at the 993 as a classic 911 and I love these - so I accept the design flaws as part of its character/heritage (and even got to like them).
From a dynamic point of view - let's be realistic: There is more than enough on offer to enjoy the car on a winding country/mountain road. You can sharp it up a little for not a lot of money should that be necessary. And the sound (let's say with a proper exhaust) in the open top is just adding a lot to the experience.
And if I want to scare myself properly I just take the GT2.
So what I want to say is: You're choice depends on what you want to do and experience with the car. That said - I haven't warmed yet to the 991 (not sure I will) and would certainly go for the Boxster...
Regards
Hans
PILCH 23 said:
PILCH 23 said:
There is definitely a 911 scale and most Pistonheads know how it works.
It works on several axes... but best from left to right
1. coupe, targa, cabriolet.
2. manual, pdk, tiptronic
3. age (older is normally better but 996 at the bottom)
4. normally aspirated air cooled, air cooled turbo, wet, wet turbo
5. S is better than standard or T or E models
6. specials - ex race/rally cars, R models, RSR, ST, RS, Club Sport, GT3, GT2, Speedster
7. Compromise is cooler. Roll cage, straight through system, rose joints, no radio or a/c.
Using the above six tier system we can classify all 911s/ However, there are probably some cars it does not work on: such as the 993 GT2 ranks higher than all GT3s incl RS models!
This really should be put into a matrix for young Pistonheads to learn at 10 years old.
I forgot to add the 2wd versus 4wd line but that should have been obvious.It works on several axes... but best from left to right
1. coupe, targa, cabriolet.
2. manual, pdk, tiptronic
3. age (older is normally better but 996 at the bottom)
4. normally aspirated air cooled, air cooled turbo, wet, wet turbo
5. S is better than standard or T or E models
6. specials - ex race/rally cars, R models, RSR, ST, RS, Club Sport, GT3, GT2, Speedster
7. Compromise is cooler. Roll cage, straight through system, rose joints, no radio or a/c.
Using the above six tier system we can classify all 911s/ However, there are probably some cars it does not work on: such as the 993 GT2 ranks higher than all GT3s incl RS models!
This really should be put into a matrix for young Pistonheads to learn at 10 years old.
Edited by PILCH 23 on Friday 22 June 10:27
Therefore if you crave a cabriolet, turbo, 4wd, auto, 996 (like my friend previously had) you've missed the point entirely (like Guru Murphy!).
The 996 GT3 mk1 is (rightfully) viewed as one of the best 911's, and for me perosnally, it was that car that got me into liking 911's. (I retrospectively appreciated the 2.7 RS etc).
I think the best looking 911 ever is the 996 GT2.
Nowt wrong with 4wd on a 911 as it is still a predominantly 95% RWD system and is quicker (on track and road) in the type of conditions normally seen in the UK.
Further, the 911 turbo is a poster car for many - the 964, 993 & 996 turbo universally hailed as great cars. I'm guessing you've never driven any of them.
The fact that I disagree with a lot of your points cancels out your opinion.
To me the current 991 cab is the best looking 911 convertible since the speedster, the design seems to hang together much better than it has on the previous generations.
The side profile is much improved with more than a hint of speedster to it, the roof looks taut and an extension of the body and its lost the jlo style bum the 997 had.
Lovely thing.
monthefish said:
PILCH 23 said:
PILCH 23 said:
There is definitely a 911 scale and most Pistonheads know how it works.
It works on several axes... but best from left to right
1. coupe, targa, cabriolet.
2. manual, pdk, tiptronic
3. age (older is normally better but 996 at the bottom)
4. normally aspirated air cooled, air cooled turbo, wet, wet turbo
5. S is better than standard or T or E models
6. specials - ex race/rally cars, R models, RSR, ST, RS, Club Sport, GT3, GT2, Speedster
7. Compromise is cooler. Roll cage, straight through system, rose joints, no radio or a/c.
Using the above six tier system we can classify all 911s/ However, there are probably some cars it does not work on: such as the 993 GT2 ranks higher than all GT3s incl RS models!
This really should be put into a matrix for young Pistonheads to learn at 10 years old.
I forgot to add the 2wd versus 4wd line but that should have been obvious.It works on several axes... but best from left to right
1. coupe, targa, cabriolet.
2. manual, pdk, tiptronic
3. age (older is normally better but 996 at the bottom)
4. normally aspirated air cooled, air cooled turbo, wet, wet turbo
5. S is better than standard or T or E models
6. specials - ex race/rally cars, R models, RSR, ST, RS, Club Sport, GT3, GT2, Speedster
7. Compromise is cooler. Roll cage, straight through system, rose joints, no radio or a/c.
Using the above six tier system we can classify all 911s/ However, there are probably some cars it does not work on: such as the 993 GT2 ranks higher than all GT3s incl RS models!
This really should be put into a matrix for young Pistonheads to learn at 10 years old.
Edited by PILCH 23 on Friday 22 June 10:27
Therefore if you crave a cabriolet, turbo, 4wd, auto, 996 (like my friend previously had) you've missed the point entirely (like Guru Murphy!).
The 996 GT3 mk1 is (rightfully) viewed as one of the best 911's, and for me perosnally, it was that car that got me into liking 911's. (I retrospectively appreciated the 2.7 RS etc).
I think the best looking 911 ever is the 996 GT2.
Nowt wrong with 4wd on a 911 as it is still a predominantly 95% RWD system and is quicker (on track and road) in the type of conditions normally seen in the UK.
Further, the 911 turbo is a poster car for many - the 964, 993 & 996 turbo universally hailed as great cars. I'm guessing you've never driven any of them.
The fact that I disagree with a lot of your points cancels out your opinion.
For the record, I am very happy with my Boxster Tiptronic S.
I used to be somewhat of a Gearbox snob myself until I drove it for an extended period of time in varying conditions (city/country etc). Also if you do some reading you will be surprised how much technology went into a 'boggo' Tiptronic S. From what I understand it basically has all of the same features as a PDK (hill detection, adaptive memory etc) but without the second clutch.
The steering wheel buttons are very responsive, if you still want more control.
I used to be somewhat of a Gearbox snob myself until I drove it for an extended period of time in varying conditions (city/country etc). Also if you do some reading you will be surprised how much technology went into a 'boggo' Tiptronic S. From what I understand it basically has all of the same features as a PDK (hill detection, adaptive memory etc) but without the second clutch.
The steering wheel buttons are very responsive, if you still want more control.
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