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Great Pretender

24,768 posts

100 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
r129sl said:
It is a fair point that you make but...

The 280 SE's principal qualities were its refinement, its ease of operation and its longevity. It also had a significant performance advantage over the small fry in their Cortinas and Cavaliers and Montegos. It may well have been leased or (more likely) taken under some form of purchase credit, but it likely was kept by its first owner for a good many more years than two.

When it comes, the S250 CDI's principal qualities, if you can call them that, will be its flash-to-cash quotient and its low CO2 rating. Its buyer gets a S-Class for £499 a month/palatable BIK charge. The vehicle will not be particularly refined (4 cylinder diesel), it will be ergonomically compromised in order to save money, and its intended service life will be less than 10 years. It is unlikely to show a Mondeo TDCI a clean pair of heels in the traffic light grand prix. Of course, it will not be a rubbish car by any stretch of the imagination!
I'm willing to bet that it'll be more refined than a six-pot S-class, ten years it's senior though. And probably quicker too.

That's progress for you.

Whilst I shan't leave my seat in anticipation, I expect to see literally billions of the things in and around Heathrow/West London in coming months (all debadged, naturally); proving that there be a market for such a vehicle and then some.

I can't tell you the last time I saw a non-diesel S-Class in fact (Russian-spec AMGs notwithstanding). Them's the time's we live in. But getting back to your point, it also shows just how far diesel engine technology as come and the market has reacted accordingly.

Never thought I'd say this even five years ago, but I can't think of a single reason why I'd go back to petrol for my week-day wheels now. The combination of diesel, modern fueling technology and turbos, makes for grunty, fuel efficient and refined long-legged machines which trump their petrol counterparts in every area bar aural satisfaction and (to a lesser extent) NVH.

olly22n

13,796 posts

92 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Great Pretender said:
r129sl said:
It is a fair point that you make but...

The 280 SE's principal qualities were its refinement, its ease of operation and its longevity. It also had a significant performance advantage over the small fry in their Cortinas and Cavaliers and Montegos. It may well have been leased or (more likely) taken under some form of purchase credit, but it likely was kept by its first owner for a good many more years than two.

When it comes, the S250 CDI's principal qualities, if you can call them that, will be its flash-to-cash quotient and its low CO2 rating. Its buyer gets a S-Class for £499 a month/palatable BIK charge. The vehicle will not be particularly refined (4 cylinder diesel), it will be ergonomically compromised in order to save money, and its intended service life will be less than 10 years. It is unlikely to show a Mondeo TDCI a clean pair of heels in the traffic light grand prix. Of course, it will not be a rubbish car by any stretch of the imagination!
I'm willing to bet that it'll be more refined than a six-pot S-class, ten years it's senior though. And probably quicker too.

That's progress for you.

Whilst I shan't leave my seat in anticipation, I expect to see literally billions of the things in and around Heathrow/West London in coming months (all debadged, naturally); proving that there be a market for such a vehicle and then some.

I can't tell you the last time I saw a non-diesel S-Class in fact (Russian-spec AMGs notwithstanding). Them's the time's we live in. But getting back to your point, it also shows just how far diesel engine technology as come and the market has reacted accordingly.

Never thought I'd say this even five years ago, but I can't think of a single reason why I'd go back to petrol for my week-day wheels now. The combination of diesel, modern fueling technology and turbos, makes for grunty, fuel efficient and refined long-legged machines which trump their petrol counterparts in every area bar aural satisfaction and (to a lesser extent) NVH.
And they make your hands smell.

Output Flange

14,470 posts

97 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
olly22n said:
And they make your hands smell.
So does a Ginsters Buffet Bar.

E38Ross

15,217 posts

98 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Great Pretender said:
I'm willing to bet that it'll be more refined than a six-pot S-class, ten years it's senior though. And probably quicker too.

That's progress for you.

Whilst I shan't leave my seat in anticipation, I expect to see literally billions of the things in and around Heathrow/West London in coming months (all debadged, naturally); proving that there be a market for such a vehicle and then some.

I can't tell you the last time I saw a non-diesel S-Class in fact (Russian-spec AMGs notwithstanding). Them's the time's we live in. But getting back to your point, it also shows just how far diesel engine technology as come and the market has reacted accordingly.

Never thought I'd say this even five years ago, but I can't think of a single reason why I'd go back to petrol for my week-day wheels now. The combination of diesel, modern fueling technology and turbos, makes for grunty, fuel efficient and refined long-legged machines which trump their petrol counterparts in every area bar aural satisfaction and (to a lesser extent) NVH.
Except for when they go wrong, which isn't too infrequent. Also,the difference between a turbo diesel and a turbo petrol is far less than you think. The petrol being better of course wink

Great Pretender

24,768 posts

100 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
olly22n said:
And they make your hands smell.
Assuming one doesn't keep a handy glove tucked inside the fuel filler cap.

Better than getting a crotch full of liquid gas though, non?

You girt big .
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Output Flange

14,470 posts

97 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
E38Ross said:
Except for when they go wrong, which isn't too infrequent.
Because E38s aren't famous for rusty fuel tanks at £1k per pop, or needing frequent cooling system refreshes, or cam and crank sensors failing etc etc...

V8mate

37,015 posts

75 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Output Flange said:
olly22n said:
And they make your hands smell.
So does a Ginsters Buffet Bar.
Pervert.

Great Pretender

24,768 posts

100 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
E38Ross said:
Great Pretender said:
I'm willing to bet that it'll be more refined than a six-pot S-class, ten years it's senior though. And probably quicker too.

That's progress for you.

Whilst I shan't leave my seat in anticipation, I expect to see literally billions of the things in and around Heathrow/West London in coming months (all debadged, naturally); proving that there be a market for such a vehicle and then some.

I can't tell you the last time I saw a non-diesel S-Class in fact (Russian-spec AMGs notwithstanding). Them's the time's we live in. But getting back to your point, it also shows just how far diesel engine technology as come and the market has reacted accordingly.

Never thought I'd say this even five years ago, but I can't think of a single reason why I'd go back to petrol for my week-day wheels now. The combination of diesel, modern fueling technology and turbos, makes for grunty, fuel efficient and refined long-legged machines which trump their petrol counterparts in every area bar aural satisfaction and (to a lesser extent) NVH.
Except for when they go wrong, which isn't too infrequent.
Only really worthy of consideration for the 2nd buyer of a high mileage, ten yr old used car though. My previous comment was directed at those who dictate the winds of change in vehicle propulsion: the punters buying cars new off the shelf (as a consequence of tightening emissions regs and rising cost of fuel).

Great Pretender

24,768 posts

100 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
E38Ross said:
Except for when they go wrong, which isn't too infrequent. Also,the difference between a turbo diesel and a turbo petrol is far less than you think. The petrol being better of course wink
See that there? That man in the street is better than you are. That's how much validity your revised post above holds wink

Petrol is better for what precisely?


V8mate

37,015 posts

75 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Great Pretender said:
Petrol is better for what precisely?
Blowing up Parliament.

Great Pretender

24,768 posts

100 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
V8mate said:
Great Pretender said:
Petrol is better for what precisely?
Blowing up Parliament.
You'll be popular on the 5th November with your Jerry-can and solitary match.

E38Ross

15,217 posts

98 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Great Pretender said:
E38Ross said:
Except for when they go wrong, which isn't too infrequent. Also,the difference between a turbo diesel and a turbo petrol is far less than you think. The petrol being better of course wink
See that there? That man in the street is better than you are. That's how much validity your revised post above holds wink

Petrol is better for what precisely?
Smoothness/refinement, power, noise. A turbo charged petrol has just as good low down grunt (relative to max permissable engine speed) as a turbo diesel.

r129sl

3,834 posts

89 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Sniffing.

V8mate

37,015 posts

75 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Great Pretender said:
V8mate said:
Great Pretender said:
Petrol is better for what precisely?
Blowing up Parliament.
You'll be popular on the 5th November with your Jerry-can and solitary match.
I'm going to do it on the 4th. They'll never see that coming.

Or the 6th. They'll have dropped their guard by then.

Output Flange

14,470 posts

97 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
E38Ross said:
Smoothness/refinement, power, noise. A turbo charged petrol has just as good low down grunt (relative to max permissable engine speed) as a turbo diesel.
So why aren't BMW, Merc, Audi etc all releasing turbo petrol barges?

r129sl

3,834 posts

89 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
You'd have to be insane or very well off to pick a S500 over a S350 CDI these days. Obviously, if the lottery is won, it will be the petrol jobby, but back in the real world diesel suits most buyers' needs well enough and the refinement compromise is, well, a fair compromise.

Back to the bangers chaps?

Output Flange

14,470 posts

97 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all


Barge.

E38Ross

15,217 posts

98 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Output Flange said:
E38Ross said:
Smoothness/refinement, power, noise. A turbo charged petrol has just as good low down grunt (relative to max permissable engine speed) as a turbo diesel.
So why aren't BMW, Merc, Audi etc all releasing turbo petrol barges?
Erm, they are? 740i, 750i and 760li are all turbo charged and more powerful than the diesel equivalent.

Output Flange

14,470 posts

97 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all


Barge.

Fox-

11,238 posts

132 months

[news] 
Tuesday 9th October 2012 quote quote all
Output Flange said:
So why aren't BMW, Merc, Audi etc all releasing turbo petrol barges?
Because the market wants max bling for lowest monthly cost and not ultra quality products now which is why manufacturers are able to drop quality standards too - most buyers do not care.
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