Mazda RX8 (everyone is telling me no)
Discussion
Hi all ! Just got a nice wee cash injection from a PPI repayment and want a daddy car. We have a Skoda Fabia vRS as the family car on the Motability scheme. So there is restrictions on how and when its used. I dont want to abuse this scheme like others do. I Would not con the benifit system so wont be abusing the Motability Scheme. So the wife has the most use of this car with the school run and picking up my son. But i find my self wanting a car for only me....perhaps put the family in it every now and again. The rx8 looks a good on paper. Sports car looks, good handling,and the benifit of it being a 4 seater too. Now to the questions. Are the engines THAT prone to blowing up. Oil consumption seem to be a recurring theme. Also how much fuel they use seems to be a issue for some owners. Are there proper 4 seat car, ie me, the wife, a six year old and a 14 year old occasionally. Are they capable of big millage. I hope some owners/people in the know are on here as everyone seems to have a opinion on these cars but dont know anyone who really knows about them.
The engine is designed to burn oil, that's just the way rotary engines work. They are also rather poor on economy, that's just the way rotary engines work.
If you neglect the oil, the engine will lose compression and then it will need rebuilding. Many people have neglected the oil on these cars meaning that wear is accelerated. Buying second hand you would need to be very certain the the previous owners have understood the special bits of running a rotary engine otherwise you could be in for a world of hurt.
I like the RX-8 but the potential for issues due to PO abuse is quite high. On the assumption that you are after something that you are reasonably certain isn't going to offer up scary bills in the near future, I think it would be worth looking at other things (E46 BMW coupé would be pretty close to what you are looking for I think).
If you neglect the oil, the engine will lose compression and then it will need rebuilding. Many people have neglected the oil on these cars meaning that wear is accelerated. Buying second hand you would need to be very certain the the previous owners have understood the special bits of running a rotary engine otherwise you could be in for a world of hurt.
I like the RX-8 but the potential for issues due to PO abuse is quite high. On the assumption that you are after something that you are reasonably certain isn't going to offer up scary bills in the near future, I think it would be worth looking at other things (E46 BMW coupé would be pretty close to what you are looking for I think).
I don't know where you're based, but I recently went past a site that has been a car dealer, then a car wash and now has about 30 RX8s on the forecourt...no other cars. It struck me as an odd car to specialise in given the horror stories that seem to rear up whenever I read about them, but I guess they must think they're onto a winner. It's just outside Hook on the A30 though I haven't been past in a week so it could be something else now given the rate of change...
jjones said:
pros:
good looking (subjective)
swift
cheap
cons:
crap mpg
might go bang
hard to sell on
you pays your money...
They never go bang. In fact the complete opposit. good looking (subjective)
swift
cheap
cons:
crap mpg
might go bang
hard to sell on
you pays your money...
Op - there's nothing wrong with the RX-8, just do your research first and know what they are and why you should buy one. The only things to remember are 1960's big block mpg thirst and they aren't hugely fast. But straight line speed is not what they are about. Great cars - but specialist enthusiast cars. Think of them like buying a TVR or a classic, they like similar levels of attention and passion.
simonNOSking said:
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2011...
look like super VFM........?
Thats an insurance writeoff, hence price.look like super VFM........?
OldSkoolRS said:
I don't know where you're based, but I recently went past a site that has been a car dealer, then a car wash and now has about 30 RX8s on the forecourt...no other cars. It struck me as an odd car to specialise in given the horror stories that seem to rear up whenever I read about them, but I guess they must think they're onto a winner. It's just outside Hook on the A30 though I haven't been past in a week so it could be something else now given the rate of change...
I came across that place on autotrader lastnight, seemingly called Mazda UK and takes all traded in RX-8s from across the network. I guess why they call themselves Mazda UK?Check out Dale Lomas' stuff on here, on the main PH front page, he's bought one for his ring tool and mentions plumbing in another windscreen washer bottle and pump to inject 2 stroke into it so it gets clean oil, not sump oil and mentions pre mixing UL with 2 stroke oil when refuelling.
Specialists and dealers will do compression checks. It seems a car can go from passing the compression test to failing it in less than a year.
I've been tempted too but I'd need a very recent compression test from a proper garage. I used the PH classified beta to search on the term 'compression' when looking at RX-8s, one said 'Had compression test done on date XX/XX/XXXX' - which was a Sunday. That put me off and the fact it was modded and a 192HP one. I'd really want a 231HP one if I was to get one.
I searched out the Dale Lomas link for you:
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/25094.htm
When I've been asking about the compression test here, another poster said if the coil packs die (common fault) then they don't fire and the unburnt fuel washes the lube from the rotor tips/seals and causes the wear that causes the low compression issues.
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/25094.htm
When I've been asking about the compression test here, another poster said if the coil packs die (common fault) then they don't fire and the unburnt fuel washes the lube from the rotor tips/seals and causes the wear that causes the low compression issues.
carinaman said:
I searched out the Dale Lomas link for you:
http://www.pistonheads.com/news/25094.htm
When I've been asking about the compression test here, another poster said if the coil packs die (common fault) then they don't fire and the unburnt fuel washes the lube from the rotor tips/seals and causes the wear that causes the low compression issues.
That's true.http://www.pistonheads.com/news/25094.htm
When I've been asking about the compression test here, another poster said if the coil packs die (common fault) then they don't fire and the unburnt fuel washes the lube from the rotor tips/seals and causes the wear that causes the low compression issues.
They are thirsty (work on getting 21MPG average), but great fun to drive.
If you can find a PZ (and cope with £400+ a year RFL) then get one of those, the pre March '06 cars are cheaper on RFL, but the PZs are all later.
There's not that much difference between a 192 and a 238 no matter what people say, except the latter has a six speed box and the former a five. Some people reckon the 192 is torquier and a little less thirsty, but it's all marginal.
Aside from the fuel consumption they're fairly practical. Proper room for 4 normal (as opposed to giant) sized adults, decent sized boot (although the opening's a bit awkward for big items), quite refined and with amazing handling for a 4 door, 4 seater car (BMW 3 series don't compete in this respect although they're always offered as the 'obvious' choice).
Servicing and non-fuel running costs are pretty small. They do need oil checking once a fortnight, but they use cheap mineral oil, so the cost of topping up is minimal (See Opie Oils).
Find a good one and you'll love it, otherwise you could have an engine rebuild on your hands.
M.
They're great cars but when / if they go wrong the costs can spiral and they're not as easy to work on.
As an ameteur mechanic I can usually determine why a typical engine with cylinders won't start, but when a mate of a mate was trying to sell on an RX8 three months ago we could not get the thing started. I think it had flooded, but after that I was stuck.
Also, someone compared it to the RX7. I think where the RX7 (a 260 - 300bhp sports car) became a collectors item the RX8 will not follow suit. Many, many more were made and they're not anywhere near as 'special'.
Get a Boxster and leave the kids at home.
As an ameteur mechanic I can usually determine why a typical engine with cylinders won't start, but when a mate of a mate was trying to sell on an RX8 three months ago we could not get the thing started. I think it had flooded, but after that I was stuck.
Also, someone compared it to the RX7. I think where the RX7 (a 260 - 300bhp sports car) became a collectors item the RX8 will not follow suit. Many, many more were made and they're not anywhere near as 'special'.
Get a Boxster and leave the kids at home.
If you're tempted by one of these, I know of a cheap 53 plate 192 edition, bright red with black/red leather inside. Although cars from '54' onwards have improved starting reliability, this one has done 60k with a new engine under warranty by Mazda in 08. Circa £1,800 - £2,000 and 100% not on the list, unlike that silver one.
It's the horrendous fuel consumption that makes them so cheap, people own them 6 months at a time before getting rid, you'll see some examples with 11 owners on the logbook... a football teams worth. Strangely enough these cars don't quite get the enthusiasts' vote anymore, I see fewer and fewer on the roads, and it always appears to be woman behind the wheel when I do!
As suggested, it's the maintenance you need to be sure of. I'm convinced a lot of these said lady owners don't realise the importance of topping up the oil, and more importantly using the right oil, they are designed to burn the stuff. They are a proper 4 seater, rear legroom is adequate, we travelled to Le Mans in one back in '09 in comfort. Not a torquey engine but beautifully creamy and refined, every bit as good as a BMW 6cyl in that respect. Lots of kit inside too. They are a true sports car, I don't know if the rotary engine was a complete success, and because of that they're now overlooked a little, and the fact they're getting on a bit plus the aforementioned fuel economy. All this has made values plummet. I'd go for it!
It's the horrendous fuel consumption that makes them so cheap, people own them 6 months at a time before getting rid, you'll see some examples with 11 owners on the logbook... a football teams worth. Strangely enough these cars don't quite get the enthusiasts' vote anymore, I see fewer and fewer on the roads, and it always appears to be woman behind the wheel when I do!
As suggested, it's the maintenance you need to be sure of. I'm convinced a lot of these said lady owners don't realise the importance of topping up the oil, and more importantly using the right oil, they are designed to burn the stuff. They are a proper 4 seater, rear legroom is adequate, we travelled to Le Mans in one back in '09 in comfort. Not a torquey engine but beautifully creamy and refined, every bit as good as a BMW 6cyl in that respect. Lots of kit inside too. They are a true sports car, I don't know if the rotary engine was a complete success, and because of that they're now overlooked a little, and the fact they're getting on a bit plus the aforementioned fuel economy. All this has made values plummet. I'd go for it!
I had a 2003 RX8 and loved it to bits. It wasn't great on fuel and as mentioned they use oil. But don't be put off by that. The car itself feels great to drive and is beautifully balanced. I had a Borla exhaust and K&N filter kit amongst some other slight mods and the car sounded fantastic. A friend who's a biker said the engine sounded like a bike engine in the high revs. The seats are all very comfortable and to be honest I can't really fault my car.
Before I bought I joined the RX8 owners club. They have a wealth of knowledge about the cars and are a great bunch.
I was told by them to do a hot compression test on the car, it costs a bit and but can detect worn rotor tips and the associated compression issue. I was also told if possible check the coil packs as these degrade and also the Cat.
Still though, a great car and I will get another when I can afford a second car.
Before I bought I joined the RX8 owners club. They have a wealth of knowledge about the cars and are a great bunch.
I was told by them to do a hot compression test on the car, it costs a bit and but can detect worn rotor tips and the associated compression issue. I was also told if possible check the coil packs as these degrade and also the Cat.
Still though, a great car and I will get another when I can afford a second car.
There are many with stuffed motors on eBay for around a grand. What's the cost of a rebuilt engine with a warranty? £2K?
I'm starting to wonder if that's the way to go rather than pay £3K for one that may well need a rebuild soon anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD2hUF6GhwM
I'm wondering if it's possible to develop some piece of kit to monitor coil pack performance while they're in the car? Mazda could have done themselves a favour if they had some way of monitoring coil pack performance and then having a massive warning light on the dash or disable the car from starting.
It's not just the MPG issue is it?
Get a Boxster? Aren't there two issues there? RMS and something else that also afflicts 996 motors? At least on the RX-8 you can get them compression tested. Those water cooled Porsche sixes seem like a bit of gamble 'Any cars with that fault should have died or been fixed by now'. Fingers crossed eh?
I wouldn't get any post March 23 2006 car unless it was in a low RFL tax bracket. There's no way I'd pay £400 a year plus RFL just because it was registered after some arbitary date, no PZs for me.
This all seems a bit witchcraft to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xa07pzIRFU&fea...
I'm starting to wonder if that's the way to go rather than pay £3K for one that may well need a rebuild soon anyway.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD2hUF6GhwM
I'm wondering if it's possible to develop some piece of kit to monitor coil pack performance while they're in the car? Mazda could have done themselves a favour if they had some way of monitoring coil pack performance and then having a massive warning light on the dash or disable the car from starting.
It's not just the MPG issue is it?
Get a Boxster? Aren't there two issues there? RMS and something else that also afflicts 996 motors? At least on the RX-8 you can get them compression tested. Those water cooled Porsche sixes seem like a bit of gamble 'Any cars with that fault should have died or been fixed by now'. Fingers crossed eh?
I wouldn't get any post March 23 2006 car unless it was in a low RFL tax bracket. There's no way I'd pay £400 a year plus RFL just because it was registered after some arbitary date, no PZs for me.
Edited by carinaman on Friday 22 June 11:06
This all seems a bit witchcraft to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xa07pzIRFU&fea...
Edited by carinaman on Friday 22 June 11:08
carinaman said:
I'm starting to wonder if that's the way to go rather than pay £3K for one that may well need a rebuild soon anyway.
I tend to agree. Don't buy an expensive one and HOPE it will be ok, instead buy a cheap one and KNOW that it will need money spent on it.Options:
£3k car - Turns out ok. Cost = £3k
£3k car - Turns out needs £2k rebuild. Cost = £5k
£1k car - Turns out ok. Cost = £1k
£1k car - Turns out needs £2k rebuild. Cost = £3k
So the £3k one will cost you £3k or £5k, the £1k one will cost you £1k or £3k. Get the cheap one.
mrmr96 said:
carinaman said:
I'm starting to wonder if that's the way to go rather than pay £3K for one that may well need a rebuild soon anyway.
I tend to agree. Don't buy an expensive one and HOPE it will be ok, instead buy a cheap one and KNOW that it will need money spent on it.Options:
£3k car - Turns out ok. Cost = £3k
£3k car - Turns out needs £2k rebuild. Cost = £5k
£1k car - Turns out ok. Cost = £1k
£1k car - Turns out needs £2k rebuild. Cost = £3k
So the £3k one will cost you £3k or £5k, the £1k one will cost you £1k or £3k. Get the cheap one.
However, if you can find a decent car with JUST a knackered engine, a rebuild might be a sensible option - at least the engine will be a known quantity.
However, you'll probably need a new Cat and 4 new coils (and 4 new plugs) - So factor in another £500-£1000 for these - You might luck in and not need them, but...
M.
If you get a rebuilt one, you can rig up the underbonnet 2 stroke oil feed and put some in the tank with the UL as mentioned by Dale Lomas in his RX8 intro article and you'll know how that motor has been lubed and treated.
A couple of issues ago CAR Magazine did a piece on the RX-7 and RX-8 I think on pretense of a last hurrah, farewell piece on the wankel. They said that Mazda set up a facility in the US to take back and rebuild the motors failed there, but we weren't so lucky. I guess that's the power of US consumers and/or the need to uphold the name and reputation in such a massive market?
You'd have to budget for getting a pre-purchase compression test done. The limits seem quite wide too, so I do wonder how much life there is left in one that's just within the lower limits.
There's a mine of information on the owners forums about them.
A couple of issues ago CAR Magazine did a piece on the RX-7 and RX-8 I think on pretense of a last hurrah, farewell piece on the wankel. They said that Mazda set up a facility in the US to take back and rebuild the motors failed there, but we weren't so lucky. I guess that's the power of US consumers and/or the need to uphold the name and reputation in such a massive market?
You'd have to budget for getting a pre-purchase compression test done. The limits seem quite wide too, so I do wonder how much life there is left in one that's just within the lower limits.
There's a mine of information on the owners forums about them.
This was up for £3,000. I don't know if it sold or if it did at what price:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200764734882?ssPageName=...
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200764734882?ssPageName=...
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