RE: You Know You Want To: £20K Porsche 996 Turbo
Discussion
markcoznottz said:
Agree that a remap is a must, makes a 996tt as near as dammit as fast as a 997tt. The mechanicals on these cars are bullet proof,In fact if they hadn't made the front rads out of recycled tin cans this car wouldn't have any serious vices. 25 mpg on a run is about the best I've seen, don't know about mpg on a mad one, it's very hard to even glance at the speedo when you are moving. Make no mistake, these are very fast cars, a normal driver probably wouldn't be faster in a hyper car such is the ease with which you can just get in and drive. In fact that's maybe why people say the brakes aren't all that, because you drive the car like its a golf, just harder, then realise you are doing 130mph, brush the brake pedal, and realise you need to really brake hard.
That is so true but true about any capable car. I often get asked by passengers, "How fast did we go then?" and I'm like I honestly don't have the Kahuna's to take my eyes off the road let alone defocus and look at the HUD!!!! It's mad how capable some cars are at top speed and if you look at the 60-100 speed I think that gives a much better idea of how capable a car is.
Take the M5 vs 996 TT and you see just how ridiculous both of these are.
Porsche 996TT
0-100 9.4s
60-100 5.5s
M5 E60/61
0-100 9.8s
60-100 5.1s
Moosh said:
I have a 2004 996 x50 turbo and thought I would move it on after a few years. BUT!, after a remap and a new exhaust, gt3 front discs, power up to around 520bhp I must admit I am smitten with the car. It is so fantastic in every way. I have the aero kit and x50 upgrade which not only IMO makes the car look great, it also makes it a amazing performance car. The handling and power is just something else on track and on the B roads.
To all those who say it is boring to drive I have only one response
, you have either never driven one or you do not how to drive, or you are A PUSSY to scared to take the car to its limits.
DRIVE IT HARD, ANY ENJOY
I am keeping mine till either the car is scrap or I die,
Fair play, I'd love a blast in one especially a remapped one and see how it moves. Anyone in the west berks area and have some time? I'll even take you out in the family wagen To all those who say it is boring to drive I have only one response
, you have either never driven one or you do not how to drive, or you are A PUSSY to scared to take the car to its limits.DRIVE IT HARD, ANY ENJOY
I am keeping mine till either the car is scrap or I die,
Running costs on any Porsche can be resonable provided it doesnt ever go wrong...
If that 996 turbo goes wrong, you are royally f***ed.
I had what looked like a mint '03 Boxster S. It looked fantastic, but it felt fragile and little things were always going wrong with it. Things that shouldn't on a 7 year old car that cost the original owner way over £40k. In contrast, our 11 year old impreza is virtually new and made from granite. It's a braver man than I to buy any used Porsche again, maybe I was unlucky but I don't think so... Good luck to the new owner of that 996.
If that 996 turbo goes wrong, you are royally f***ed.
I had what looked like a mint '03 Boxster S. It looked fantastic, but it felt fragile and little things were always going wrong with it. Things that shouldn't on a 7 year old car that cost the original owner way over £40k. In contrast, our 11 year old impreza is virtually new and made from granite. It's a braver man than I to buy any used Porsche again, maybe I was unlucky but I don't think so... Good luck to the new owner of that 996.
monthefish said:
Crimp a Length! said:
GT2 would wipe the floor of the 6T
Not sure about "wipe the floor". The GT2 is definitely a quicker car (in the right hands, and in the right conditions) but the difference isn't night and day.Crimp a Length! said:
they also look a lot better than the turbo.
Absolutely.The GT2 commands the skills of a driving god..........i'm not!!
For me the 6T is more suited as i felt in control (electronic aids)
The GT2 feels so much quicker though even from a figures perspective there's not much in it (according to Porsche anyway.......and we all know they edge on the conservative side!!)
All the negative comments make me smile, their loss i say as the Mr Clarkson noted it was the best super car in the world and he hates 911's but who gives a flying feck what he thinks? !!
Great cars.......the values for good ones will go North as there is a lot of shoite out there.
Homer J said:
cjb1 said:
As a PCGB member I've owned various 911's for a total of 13+ years so have a bit of experience in them but all said this is only my opinion. The 996 was possibly Porsche's best selling 911 and subsequently flooded the market, there's gazillions of them for sale, it's is generally recognised as being one of the most unloved 911's of all times, the 964 being second to it. beauty is the eye of the beholder and for someone looking for outright performance for less money they are a fantastic bargain. Someone looking for a proper 911 they are not the one to buy. As has already been said on this thread, I went to the launch of the 996 at the motor show the first impression when I saw it on the stand was the flat lines of the side profile and those bloody awful fried egg headlights. I later saw it at my local Porsche Centre, the first impression when I sat in it was the plastic cheap and nasty interior.
These have dropped the guts on £100k to sub £20k for a reason, they are likely to fall further.
If your just looking for a bargain 911 and prepared to lose serious money in it's further depreciation go for a 996, if you're looking for a pucker 911 to hold or even gain in value, don't.....another 'don't' is making a comparison between these and 997 simply because their isn't one.
LOL.These have dropped the guts on £100k to sub £20k for a reason, they are likely to fall further.
If your just looking for a bargain 911 and prepared to lose serious money in it's further depreciation go for a 996, if you're looking for a pucker 911 to hold or even gain in value, don't.....another 'don't' is making a comparison between these and 997 simply because their isn't one.
Without even looking at your profile, I'm guessing your a 993 or 930 owner.
Every now and then I can bite my tongue, but when it's consistent it's just f
king infuriating.And don't say you're dyslexic
Edited by carl0s on Tuesday 26th June 00:47
TonyHetherington said:
Ah right I see - interesting, I've learnt something there, thanks (and the chap above!).
So, Gen 1 996 did share lights, Gen 2 (of which the turbo was the first) did not.
Ta
Just to tempt you further, I went from a B6 S4 to a 996 Turbo.So, Gen 1 996 did share lights, Gen 2 (of which the turbo was the first) did not.
Ta
It's not a decision I regret!
The reason 996 4S's are the same price as 996 Turbo's is that they are a better drive than the Turbo on B roads and the Turbo is primarily a motorway car for the average driver.
Depreciation on the turbo is due to high numbers made & currently available on the second hand market, which has depressed prices, whereas 4S's are less common-supply & demand rules.
There will be a £10k Turbo level by 2014-5 so patience could reward you
Depreciation on the turbo is due to high numbers made & currently available on the second hand market, which has depressed prices, whereas 4S's are less common-supply & demand rules.
There will be a £10k Turbo level by 2014-5 so patience could reward you
pagani1 said:
The reason 996 4S's are the same price as 996 Turbo's is that they are a better drive than the Turbo on B roads and the Turbo is primarily a motorway car for the average driver.
Depreciation on the turbo is due to high numbers made & currently available on the second hand market, which has depressed prices, whereas 4S's are less common-supply & demand rules.
There will be a £10k Turbo level by 2014-5 so patience could reward you
Yes to the numbers , but as to "The reason 996 4S's are the same price as 996 Turbo's is that they are a better drive than the Turbo on B roads and the Turbo is primarily a motorway car for the average driver.Depreciation on the turbo is due to high numbers made & currently available on the second hand market, which has depressed prices, whereas 4S's are less common-supply & demand rules.
There will be a £10k Turbo level by 2014-5 so patience could reward you
" what a load of sh^t
Some still saying they aren't cheap to fix at times....no kidding.
This was an expensive car when new, a car with supercar performance and to the man in the street (who isn't aware of the GT cars) this is still the daddy of the 911 range. Just because it's cheap to buy doesn't mean parts and labour have depreciated accordingly
My Lexus cost £1800 and I spent that again on suspension work. Why? Because Lexus bits aren't always cheap and this is a fast, heavy luxury car that was once at the top of the class.
Trouble is with cheap fast/ luxury cars is they start to fall into disrepair as they get cheaper. Just because Mr X can afford to by a Turbo/ M3/ 348 some just can't afford the big bills when they arise. If you can pay for the £3k bill from time to time then step up, you might never have to but that contingency has to there.
I can't stump up a large contingeny fund, hence no 355 as yet, but I'm
aware (as are many) that supercars can be expensive, regardless of the point of entry. 200mph cars need a bit of expensive care from time to time.
This was an expensive car when new, a car with supercar performance and to the man in the street (who isn't aware of the GT cars) this is still the daddy of the 911 range. Just because it's cheap to buy doesn't mean parts and labour have depreciated accordingly
My Lexus cost £1800 and I spent that again on suspension work. Why? Because Lexus bits aren't always cheap and this is a fast, heavy luxury car that was once at the top of the class.
Trouble is with cheap fast/ luxury cars is they start to fall into disrepair as they get cheaper. Just because Mr X can afford to by a Turbo/ M3/ 348 some just can't afford the big bills when they arise. If you can pay for the £3k bill from time to time then step up, you might never have to but that contingency has to there.
I can't stump up a large contingeny fund, hence no 355 as yet, but I'm
aware (as are many) that supercars can be expensive, regardless of the point of entry. 200mph cars need a bit of expensive care from time to time.
ah the turbo. I had a 993tt for a year. Stupendously fast, so I would think this is even more so (and probably better manners).
I suppose the risk for most and hence reflected in the price, is the running costs when something goes wrong. I think I spent about 3000 to 4000 on running costs (not including fuel) on the 993 (and nothing went wrong really other than maintenance). I know its not the same car, but it gave me a good feel for cost of ownership.
My only negative on my TT was that it removes you a lot from the speed, you really need to be in illegal speeds to really get a sense of thrill, compared to something like a lightweight (within reason).
I suppose the risk for most and hence reflected in the price, is the running costs when something goes wrong. I think I spent about 3000 to 4000 on running costs (not including fuel) on the 993 (and nothing went wrong really other than maintenance). I know its not the same car, but it gave me a good feel for cost of ownership.
My only negative on my TT was that it removes you a lot from the speed, you really need to be in illegal speeds to really get a sense of thrill, compared to something like a lightweight (within reason).
Garlick said:
Not sure why so many say a 911 is soulless. OK, I can't argue against a persons opinion, but I can strongly disagree with it.Â
One of my favourite cars, with plenty of soul to get under your skin. Don't confuse effectiveness with a lack of character.Â
IMO
Before I comment, and in response to another quip that people aren't speaking from experience, let me say I've had two 911's, both 996's, the latter one a turbo S. One of my favourite cars, with plenty of soul to get under your skin. Don't confuse effectiveness with a lack of character.Â
IMO
Now whilst they were both great cars, and the Turbo so so capable and quick, they did not 'stir my soul'. That may be a better way of describing it.Â
Effectiveness and efficiency, yes, by the bucket load.Â
Excitement and the thrill that makes the hairs on the back of your neck stand up? Nope!Â
A throwback of nostalgia to the rich history and pedigree (and of course they have this in spades)? No again.Â
A shape that flows and excites you just to look at, that makes you glance over your shoulder as you walk away? A little and from a couple of angles.Â
Did my heart beat faster as I turned the key? Afraid not.
Now that's just me of course and I have at least two good friends who adore 911's of all varieties, so it takes all sorts. But for me the car is devoid of just that final intangible something that stirs the soul, that takes you to another place in your head and your heart whilst driving; that moves you away from the hustle and bustle of everyday life to a place where blood and oil are all pumping in unison, and the car takes on its own character and talks to your heart, not your head.
I think my written ramblings may not have conveyed accurately what's actually in my head, but Richard Hammond sums it up beautifully when testing and reporting on the Ferrari 16M in the hills of Modena:
"Here I am in what is arguably the most technical cabriolet in existence, and as by some sixth sense the car just feels its way through the corner, your spine tingles because you've just caught a whiff of the blood sweat and tears that went into those 16 F1 Championship wins. It's that pure distilled passion of high tec and history; no one to this day bottles it quite like Ferrari"
I know I'll get a roasting for this on a Porsche forum, but I will emphasise that I for one don't believe it's limited to Ferrari, or that no other Porsche has it. I do believe (IMHO) that the 996 is somewhat devoid of the last final soul stirring ingredient.
And to bring it all back into perspective, if I had to have only one car in my life, to carry out all required functions, it would most likely be a 911
Edited for "epic fail" correction
Edited by Boshly on Tuesday 26th June 09:28
pagani1 said:
The reason 996 4S's are the same price as 996 Turbo's is that they are a better drive than the Turbo on B roads and the Turbo is primarily a motorway car for the average driver.
Depreciation on the turbo is due to high numbers made & currently available on the second hand market, which has depressed prices, whereas 4S's are less common-supply & demand rules.
There will be a £10k Turbo level by 2014-5 so patience could reward you
I don't think we will see £10k tbh. It's more likely the older cars will be broken, if they start failing mot's in a big way, I can't see anyone dropping big money on them. The biggest problem is that the engine and gearbox can withstand a nuclear attack, so just don't seem to break, hence not a massive market for spares. I wonder in 5 or 6 years if you will see loads of stripped out 996tts used as track day cars, something like that, they could pass noise regs easy. The bigger question is where will the buyers come from as the cars get older, if you can spanner yourself no problem, if not it could be an exspensive experience. Depreciation on the turbo is due to high numbers made & currently available on the second hand market, which has depressed prices, whereas 4S's are less common-supply & demand rules.
There will be a £10k Turbo level by 2014-5 so patience could reward you
I didn't know PH's was also good for grammar lessons, you cocky !
! carl0s said:
Do me a favour, read and understand this site: http://www.youryoure.com/
Every now and then I can bite my tongue, but when it's consistent it's just fking infuriating.
And don't say you're dyslexic
Every now and then I can bite my tongue, but when it's consistent it's just f
king infuriating.And don't say you're dyslexic
Edited by carl0s on Tuesday 26th June 00:47
Hit the nail on the head there, the 993 Twin Turbo is the pinnacle of 911's in many peoples opinions and that is reflected in their low depreciation.
bosshog said:
ah the turbo. I had a 993tt for a year. Stupendously fast, so I would think this is even more so (and probably better manners).
I suppose the risk for most and hence reflected in the price, is the running costs when something goes wrong. I think I spent about 3000 to 4000 on running costs (not including fuel) on the 993 (and nothing went wrong really other than maintenance). I know its not the same car, but it gave me a good feel for cost of ownership.
My only negative on my TT was that it removes you a lot from the speed, you really need to be in illegal speeds to really get a sense of thrill, compared to something like a lightweight (within reason).
I suppose the risk for most and hence reflected in the price, is the running costs when something goes wrong. I think I spent about 3000 to 4000 on running costs (not including fuel) on the 993 (and nothing went wrong really other than maintenance). I know its not the same car, but it gave me a good feel for cost of ownership.
My only negative on my TT was that it removes you a lot from the speed, you really need to be in illegal speeds to really get a sense of thrill, compared to something like a lightweight (within reason).
Erm? I've had 911's since 1984, I don't remember them actually sinking to the level of, as you said, "930's couldn't be given away".
Having owned, restored and maintained 911’s for almost thirty years, and having been a PCGB member since 1984, in my opinion only of course, does suggest that I maybe have some idea of what I'm talking about, I'm not some bar stool preacher that merely thinks he knows what he's talking about. I'm also a fully skilled engineer who has the experience that enables me to appreciate fine engineering and see through the hype and bullst. To be fair, you may want to read my post again, perhaps you will understand that I tried to make it as balanced as possible by saying "beauty is the eye of the beholder” and “for someone looking for outright performance for less money they (996 Turbo’s) are a fantastic bargain"
You guessed correctly that I am the driver of an air cooled car (1988 3.2 Sport Coupé) but that doesn't mean I favour them to the death and there is no other 911 worthy, I'd love to get myself in to a 997 Carrera 2S one day, hopefully I will.
At the end of the day ‘Pistonheads’ forums are all about like minded individuals sharing stories, experiences and opinions. I try to do this in a fair and unbiased manner, it's so disappointing when someone like you posts not his opinion but a direct and arrogant judgement by suggesting that a fellow PH'er is talking “Utter tripe”, it’s your opinion, don’t try to force it on others please.
Now why don’t you go away and learn some manners before posting on here again?
Having owned, restored and maintained 911’s for almost thirty years, and having been a PCGB member since 1984, in my opinion only of course, does suggest that I maybe have some idea of what I'm talking about, I'm not some bar stool preacher that merely thinks he knows what he's talking about. I'm also a fully skilled engineer who has the experience that enables me to appreciate fine engineering and see through the hype and bulls
t. To be fair, you may want to read my post again, perhaps you will understand that I tried to make it as balanced as possible by saying "beauty is the eye of the beholder” and “for someone looking for outright performance for less money they (996 Turbo’s) are a fantastic bargain"You guessed correctly that I am the driver of an air cooled car (1988 3.2 Sport Coupé) but that doesn't mean I favour them to the death and there is no other 911 worthy, I'd love to get myself in to a 997 Carrera 2S one day, hopefully I will.
At the end of the day ‘Pistonheads’ forums are all about like minded individuals sharing stories, experiences and opinions. I try to do this in a fair and unbiased manner, it's so disappointing when someone like you posts not his opinion but a direct and arrogant judgement by suggesting that a fellow PH'er is talking “Utter tripe”, it’s your opinion, don’t try to force it on others please.
Now why don’t you go away and learn some manners before posting on here again?
Oddball RS said:
cjb1 said:
As a PCGB member I've owned various 911's for a total of 13+ years so have a bit of experience in them but all said this is only my opinion. The 996 was possibly Porsche's best selling 911 and subsequently flooded the market, there's gazillions of them for sale, it's is generally recognised as being one of the most unloved 911's of all times, the 964 being second to it. beauty is the eye of the beholder and for someone looking for outright performance for less money they are a fantastic bargain. Someone looking for a proper 911 they are not the one to buy. As has already been said on this thread, I went to the launch of the 996 at the motor show the first impression when I saw it on the stand was the flat lines of the side profile and those bloody awful fried egg headlights. I later saw it at my local Porsche Centre, the first impression when I sat in it was the plastic cheap and nasty interior.
These have dropped the guts on £100k to sub £20k for a reason, they are likely to fall further.
If your just looking for a bargain 911 and prepared to lose serious money in it's further depreciation go for a 996, if you're looking for a pucker 911 to hold or even gain in value, don't.....another 'don't' is making a comparison between these and 997 simply because their isn't one.
I don't understand what being a PCGB member has to do with anything, and to be honest i dispute just about every point you make as being utter tripe, from i guess the driver of an air cooled car, it was around 10 years ago that 930's couldn't be given away, you need to see the pattern and stop talking other models down.
These have dropped the guts on £100k to sub £20k for a reason, they are likely to fall further.
If your just looking for a bargain 911 and prepared to lose serious money in it's further depreciation go for a 996, if you're looking for a pucker 911 to hold or even gain in value, don't.....another 'don't' is making a comparison between these and 997 simply because their isn't one.
I don't understand what being a PCGB member has to do with anything, and to be honest i dispute just about every point you make as being utter tripe, from i guess the driver of an air cooled car, it was around 10 years ago that 930's couldn't be given away, you need to see the pattern and stop talking other models down.
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