RE: You Know You Want To: £20K Porsche 996 Turbo

[Porkie]

BlimeyCharlie said:

I'm curious if anyone has been to see this actual car?

With regard to price, I can't see them coming down any more. Or everyone would have one.

They will...

Because not everyone wants an expensive to run 10year old plus car that does sub 20mpg with the potential for big bills that only seats 2 adults.

[blindswelledrat]

BlimeyCharlie said:

I'm curious if anyone has been to see this actual car?

With regard to price, I can't see them coming down any more. Or everyone would have one.

THis is a nonsense argument (no offense).
HOw is a Maserati 3200 £10k? (just to pluck one of many examples)
THe running costs are so high on cars like this that people are nervous about owning them and it is this that brings the price down.
I would also imagine (pure guess) that they are not a rarity at all so will never become the sort of car that begins to appreciate in price which means that only one thing can happen.
To put this all another way- no car in the world has a 'minimum price'. It is purely supply and demand.

[MiseryStreak]

There is a lot of crap being talked on here. OK, the 996 Turbo might not be most people's first choice of Porsche if money is no object, but to say it is 'soulless' just because it's four wheel drive and forced induction is just silly. It was pretty highly acclaimed in its day. Evo Car of the Year in 2000 I believe.

Not everyone can afford the old air cooled or latest Porsches and even if they could, the 996 Turbo is a car that can be easily tuned to 500bhp without upgrading engine internals and is pretty good value if blistering all weather acceleration is desired. In terms of image, I'll bet there are less knobheads driving them around now than when they were new (bought by enthusiasts rather than just poseurs). It's an affordable Supercar, why all the haters?

Not that bad looking is it?

Edited by MiseryStreak on Tuesday 26th June 16:53

[Contigo]

MiseryStreak said:

There is a lot of crap being talked on here. OK, the 996 Turbo might not be most people's first choice of Porsche if money is no object, but to say it is 'soulless' just because it's four wheel drive and forced induction is just silly. It was pretty highly acclaimed in its day. Evo Car of the Year in 2000 I believe.

Not everyone can afford the old air cooled or latest Porsches and even if they could, the 996 Turbo is a car that can be easily tuned to 500bhp without upgrading engine internals and is pretty good value if blistering all weather acceleration is desired. In terms of image, I'll bet there are less knobheads driving them around now than when they were new (bought by enthusiasts rather than just poseurs). It's an affordable Supercar, why all the haters?

Agreed, I don't think you can compare the 993 CS to the 996 TT in terms of performance but it certainly looks much nicer and I think the fact that they were built better and the aircooled engine was just bulletproof (so is the 996 lump by the sounds of it). I'd like to have both in the garage at some point but the 996 will definitely continue to drop because it will cost more to run that the 993 in terms of consumables and on the rare occasion it goes wrong and presents a big bill it would cripple alot of owners.

[monthefish]

MiseryStreak said:

There is a lot of crap being talked on here. OK, the 996 Turbo might not be most people's first choice of Porsche if money is no object, but to say it is 'soulless' just because it's four wheel drive and forced induction is just silly. It was pretty highly acclaimed in its day. Evo Car of the Year in 2000 I believe.

Very good post.

I think "the internets" just say this because it is such a quick cark, they find it hard to believe it can be a very involving and satisfying car to drive as well.

But don't pay any attention to them because "they" usually have no experience to back up their opinion.

[GreigM]

Contigo said:

the 996 will definitely continue to drop because it will cost more to run that the 993 in terms of consumables and on the rare occasion it goes wrong and presents a big bill it would cripple alot of owners.

Why do people continue to spout this completely uneducated bks. If you think a 993 will cost any less to run in ANY circumstances you are sadly misinformed.

[EvoSlayer]

Contigo said:

Take the M5 vs 996 TT and you see just how ridiculous both of these are.

Porsche 996TT

0-100 9.4s
60-100 5.5s And with a nip here and a tuck there 3.3s

M5 E60/61

0-100 9.8s
60-100 5.1s

[Moosh]

MiseryStreak said:

There is a lot of crap being talked on here. OK, the 996 Turbo might not be most people's first choice of Porsche if money is no object, but to say it is 'soulless' just because it's four wheel drive and forced induction is just silly. It was pretty highly acclaimed in its day. Evo Car of the Year in 2000 I believe.

Not everyone can afford the old air cooled or latest Porsches and even if they could, the 996 Turbo is a car that can be easily tuned to 500bhp without upgrading engine internals and is pretty good value if blistering all weather acceleration is desired. In terms of image, I'll bet there are less knobheads driving them around now than when they were new (bought by enthusiasts rather than just poseurs). It's an affordable Supercar, why all the haters?

Not that bad looking is it?

Edited by MiseryStreak on Tuesday 26th June 16:53

+1

[anonymous-user]

There was a "Help! I'm bored with my 996 Turbo" thread in the Porsche forum not so long ago.

I wrote:

[This thread] splits 996TT owners/likers/dislikers into those who like it because it is supremely competent and bloody fast in all conditions, and those who hate it because it is, errr, supremely competent and bloody fast in all conditions.



Deja vu.

[TomTVR500]

Greg66 said:

There was a "Help! I'm bored with my 996 Turbo" thread in the Porsche forum not so long ago.

I wrote:

[This thread] splits 996TT owners/likers/dislikers into those who like it because it is supremely competent and bloody fast in all conditions, and those who hate it because it is, errr, supremely competent and bloody fast in all conditions.



Deja vu.

+1

The most common reason people hate a car and regurgitate any negative information they may have found (justified or otherwise, usually the latter) is because it is better than what they drive, better than the cars they lust after or just has a badge that offends them. In which case all I have to say is please grow up and/or go drive one.

I am not ashamed to admit I wasn't the Boxster's greatest fan, my brother recently bought a 3.2 S and it was an easy target to rib him about until he threw me the key and said "go on then, drive it" suffice to say I will never insult it again very convincing package and a cracking noise.

[Zippee]

Greg66 said:

There was a "Help! I'm bored with my 996 Turbo" thread in the Porsche forum not so long ago.

I wrote:

[This thread] splits 996TT owners/likers/dislikers into those who like it because it is supremely competent and bloody fast in all conditions, and those who hate it because it is, errr, supremely competent and bloody fast in all conditions.



Deja vu.

I'm the first to admit it is bloody fast, competent and easy to drive fast. Whilst I have much respect for the turbo and its abilities It just doesn't stir my soul - can't put my finger on why but it's not a car for me. Much like a Nissan GTR, again stupidly fast and great handling but not a car I'd ever buy.
In much the same way a lot of people don't get or like TVR. It would be a very boring world if we all liked and owned the same thing, I'd never slate someone for owning what they like/desire but at the same time I'd expect people to understand other people do have opinions of their own that may not be the same as theirs and they should just deal with it.

[ady702]

tomellingham said:

cjb1 said:

it's is generally recognised as being one of the most unloved 911's of all times, the 964 being second to it.

I love the 964 because it was my favourite car on Need For Speed on the 3DO. And the 996 turbo was my favourite car on NFS:Porsche Challange.

If people don't want them I will have them!

LMAO!

[anonymous-user]

Zippee said:

In much the same way a lot of people don't get or like TVR. It would be a very boring world if we all liked and owned the same thing, I'd never slate someone for owning what they like/desire but at the same time I'd expect people to understand other people do have opinions of their own that may not be the same as theirs and they should just deal with it.

Couldn't agree more. My mate had a Chim a few years ago. Quite a few electrical problems. Sitting in it with him on the motorway felt like flying on the outside of a propeller plane. I just didn't get it. He loved it though.

Went with another mate to the Brecons a couple of years ago with an S2000 and an Elise. The S2000 was a a bit playful, and needed to be worked in the upper ranges to stay close to the Elise. The Elise, OTOH just made going fast very easy. The Elise ticked the box for me; the S2000 ticked it for him.

I don't think I will ever quite understand why someone would want a twitchy handful of a car as a road car. Trackday toy - different proposition entirely. But as a road car: not for me. That's not to say those who want such a car as their road car are wrong. Far from it. It's just not something I get.

[Contigo]

GreigM said:

Why do people continue to spout this completely uneducated bks. If you think a 993 will cost any less to run in ANY circumstances you are sadly misinformed.

Why do people feel the need to attack rather than back it up with some fact. I've never owned a 911 and maybe you can tell but I would have thought that as someone said earlier the 993's were built to a much higher quality.

OK servicing costs on the 996TT seem reasonable even compared to the 993. Due to the extra power of the 996TT does it not eat clutches and tyres and therefore cost more to run? What about turbo failure?

[BlimeyCharlie]

blindswelledrat said:

BlimeyCharlie said:

I'm curious if anyone has been to see this actual car?

With regard to price, I can't see them coming down any more. Or everyone would have one.

THis is a nonsense argument (no offense).
HOw is a Maserati 3200 £10k? (just to pluck one of many examples)
THe running costs are so high on cars like this that people are nervous about owning them and it is this that brings the price down.
I would also imagine (pure guess) that they are not a rarity at all so will never become the sort of car that begins to appreciate in price which means that only one thing can happen.
To put this all another way- no car in the world has a 'minimum price'. It is purely supply and demand.

No offence taken!
But running costs do not bring the price of a car down.
How else to you explain the value of a car going up? Such as a 964, either turbo'd or not. The running costs are the same still.

It is supply and demand, pure and simple as you rightly said.

[Contigo]

BlimeyCharlie said:

No offence taken!
But running costs do not bring the price of a car down.
How else to you explain the value of a car going up? Such as a 964, either turbo'd or not. The running costs are the same still.

It is supply and demand, pure and simple as you rightly said.

Of course it's supply and demand. But in this case demand for a high powered petrol engined sportscar is at its all time low and therefore prices are reflecting that. So therefore the running costs are affecting demand.

The reason 964's are going up is because people are looking to invest in classic cars now and the 964 sure is one of them.

[ES335]

I had one before my current E92 M3

Good points:

Balistically quick on boost - not very interesting below 2,500RPM though;
Steering feel - even though this gets criticised relative to the older cars, still wonderful by any other standard;
Fabulous handling - roadholding and particularly willingness to turn in.
Bomb proof engine v other 996s and certainly early 997s too.
Looks - I had mine on BBS LMs - the naturally aspirated shape just looks a bit bland to me - at least the turbo's addenda distract from the hideous front lights (what were they thinking).


Bad points

Tip box (regrettably) absolutely rubbish;
BOSE alleged hi fi - even worse;
Road noise - a total pain on motorways;
Capacity to flatten battery - a total pain if not used regularly.
-
I had the pleasure of being a passenger on track in a well developed and driven 996GT3 which made the TT feel like it was broken handling wise.

I sold it because the tip box destroyed its capacity for B road fun and apart from its acceleration, at steady state motorway speeds it was just one long drone.

The M3's chassis is less pure, but its engine and overall useability make it a better proposition from my perspective - albeit that its fuel consumption is even more dire.

[Boshly]

TomTVR500 said:

Greg66 said:

There was a "Help! I'm bored with my 996 Turbo" thread in the Porsche forum not so long ago.

I wrote:

[This thread] splits 996TT owners/likers/dislikers into those who like it because it is supremely competent and bloody fast in all conditions, and those who hate it because it is, errr, supremely competent and bloody fast in all conditions.



Deja vu.

+1

The most common reason people hate a car and regurgitate any negative information they may have found (justified or otherwise, usually the latter) is because it is better than what they drive, better than the cars they lust after or just has a badge that offends them. In which case all I have to say is please grow up and/or go drive one.

Really?? and to both quotes.

Firstly to Gregg66 there is an area between "like" and "dislike"/"hate"; though I do accept generally that not many people question the cars capabilities just whether it 'does anything' for them. I cant actually recall many people stating they don't like the car.

Secondly to TomTVR500 that is a pretty strong statement that I'm sure most people on here who have expressed a non effusive opinion would find incorrect at the least and possibly offensive! I would suggest (though CBA to check) that many of your so called "haters" have driven and/or owned similar or identical cars.

[BlimeyCharlie]

Contigo said:

BlimeyCharlie said:

No offence taken!
But running costs do not bring the price of a car down.
How else to you explain the value of a car going up? Such as a 964, either turbo'd or not. The running costs are the same still.

It is supply and demand, pure and simple as you rightly said.

Of course it's supply and demand. But in this case demand for a high powered petrol engined sportscar is at its all time low and therefore prices are reflecting that. So therefore the running costs are affecting demand.

The reason 964's are going up is because people are looking to invest in classic cars now and the 964 sure is one of them.

All cars cost a bomb to run. Even 'economical' ones.

But a large percentage of people still don't factor in depreciation at all prior to buying an 'economical' car, which is a lot more expensive, and common, than failing to factor in 'running costs' of a performance car.

You can buy an 'economical' 2011 diesel Mondeo for the same as the 996 turbo featured here.
How much is that 'economical' Mondeo going to be worth in 2 years time compared to the 996?

Looking at the classifieds here it will lose £14k in those 2 years. And you've still got to buy petrol (or exciting diesel), insurance etc.
The 996 turbo will be worth the same still. Or cars like e46 M3's, normal 996's, Boxsters etc will only be worth exporting to Greece.

A 964 suffered the same slide of depreciation as the 996 before prices have risen. I passed the opportunity of buying a 964RS (genuine) in 1998 for £20k. Now look at the price. However, I can't see any 996's doing that, unless a GT2 maybe.

Buy a 996 turbo for £19k and really see what a performance car is capable of doing. You only live once I hear.
If you find 'running costs' too high, then sell for £19k and live happily ever after.

[carl0s]

cjb1 said:

I didn't know PH's was also good for grammar lessons, you cocky !

carl0s said:

Do me a favour, read and understand this site: http://www.youryoure.com/

Every now and then I can bite my tongue, but when it's consistent it's just fking infuriating.
And don't say you're dyslexic

Well you know now! It was the repetition that bugged me. I was just trying to read the topic, until I felt an overwhelming sense of being in a room full of thick s. Then I felt I just had to comment.

Now, I'm told that that's an undesirable word, so pack it in!

Regarding the topic - I'd have one, but there are two problems: parts costs, and that funny front boot/trunk area. Give me an FR hatchback 2+2 coupe over this layout any day.